Greenland Ice Melt: See if this don't scare you!

I think they are thinking of the Larsen B ice shelf.

It was about the size of Rhode Island.

Oh, I thought something else broke off. Very scary, what we are to do ?
I think build some really cool floating homes or cities.

Originally posted by imbalanced
I think build some really cool floating homes or cities.

Ummm how about moving inland to higher ground? Just a thought. If New Orleans hadn't been built mostly below sea level, it would not have been so catastrophic. If all the ice melts, its "only" a few hundred feet. Lots of land higher than that.

Florida will not be so lucky, and Netherland will finally lose their battle with the sea

We humans alway build our cities where nature can really get us.

I was being sarcastic.
Moving inland is better.

Originally posted by WithoutEqual
Can anyone even give me an average temp for every year for the past 1000 years

Its even on wikipedia
upload.wikimedia.org...

that's what it'll take to convince me.

Convince you of what? That global temperature is increasing? Everyone is agreement on this, even the bush administration is in general agreement on this.

That article seems to be more sensationalism on the subject, trying to scare people, but, to a certain degree, the science supports being scared.

swimmer
Most of the Ice is under the water anyway

That is true of icebergs in the water, but not of ice sheets and glaciers on the land.

orionthehunter
I heard recently that sea levels would rise 21 feet if the ice on Greenland melts

Lets keep in mind that that ice simply isn't going to melt all at once or on anything like a human timescale.
This isn't to say that disasters can't occur, but its meaningless to say, as the article does, that there's 21 feet of sea level rise there.

pavil
I remember either reading or hearing recently about the Antarctic Melt compared to the amount of new snow laid down and it was pretty much a net even exchange.

I doubt that, antarctica is, essentially, a desert, there is very little precipiation. I'd be surprised if that was the case, would be neat to see if it was.

zorgon
you suddenly see that this is NORMAL for the region

Thats true for the earthquakes, but the current temperature increase isn't normal.

Originally posted by Nygdan

orionthehunter
I heard recently that sea levels would rise 21 feet if the ice on Greenland melts

Lets keep in mind that that ice simply isn't going to melt all at once or on anything like a human timescale.
This isn't to say that disasters can't occur, but its meaningless to say, as the article does, that there's 21 feet of sea level rise there.

Nygdan

I'm not sure what you are saying here. The point of the article is that such a disaster MIGHT occur:

...In all, 12 major outlet glaciers drain the ice sheet the way rivers drain a watershed, setting the pace of its release to the ocean. If they all slide too quickly, there is a possibility that, perhaps decades from now, they could collapse suddenly and release the entire ice sheet into the ocean...

The 21 foot calculation, I assume, is based upon just such a sudden event happening...or did I read that wrong?


[edit on 26-6-2006 by loam]

I find it laughable that people who swear there is no global warming would rather wait and see?

Since we do not really know if we are effecting the warming or not the fact is that the earth is warming and it could destroy the atmosphere we live in.

To just wait and see instead of trying to stop (possibly) causing it is rediculas.

We should start massive R&D into alternative fuels and enviroment reaserch instead of spending billions on a war that wont matter if the earth burns its O2 atmosphere away and all humans cease to exist.

The time to Panic is now and not when the earth is near dead.

Even if the warming is natural it is dangerous for humans and we need to act right now to save our selves.

Great find, Loam.

To add some credence to what your article is saying... as well as some consideration towards those quakes in the Arctic' here's an interesting story. While I don't know (yet) if they are related to glacial slippage, there are connections being made in this March 2006 article...

www.countercurrents.org...

The rise in the number of glacial earthquakes over the past four years lends further weight to the idea that Greenland's glaciers and its ice sheet are beginning to move and melt on a scale not seen for perhaps thousands of years.

The annual number of glacial earthquakes recorded in Greenland between 1993 and 2002 was between six and 15. In 2003 seismologists recorded 20 glacial earthquakes. In 2004 they monitored 24 and for the first 10 months of 2005 they recorded 32.

The latest seismic study, published today in the journal Science, found that in a single area of north-western Greenland scientists recorded just one quake between 1993 and 1999. But they monitored more than two dozen quakes between 2000 and 2005.

-snip-

"Some of Greenland's glaciers - as large as Manhattan and as tall as the Empire State Building - can move 10 metres in less than a minute, a jolt that is sufficient to generate moderate seismic waves," Professor Ekstrom said.

-snip-

As the glacial meltwater seeps down it lubricates the bases of the "outlet" glaciers of the Greenland ice sheet, causing them to slip down surrounding valleys towards the sea, explained Meredith Nettles of Columbia University.

"Our results suggest that these major outlet glaciers can respond to changes in climate conditions much more quickly than we had thought," Dr Nettles said.

-snip-

The seismologists also found that the glacial earthquakes of Greenland occurred mainly during the summer months, indicating that the movements were indeed associated with rapidly melting ice - normal "tectonic" earthquakes show no such seasonality. Of the 136 glacial quakes analysed by the scientists, more than a third occurred during July and August.

A scary thought.

As the tides, the warming Arctic and the heating of the surface beneath the glaciers all are taken into consideration, it seems (to me) quite possible that a huge amount of glacial ice could suddenly descend into the ocean whether it is near the North or South Poles. Such an event could spell immediate tsunami of gigantic proportions as well as a rising mean sea level.

We need to focus on places like NYC, London, Amsterdam (etc.) and how to lessen the impact of tsunami and rising sea level on such places.
.



[edit on 26-6-2006 by masqua]

Man we can kiss pretty much all of Florida goodbye. What would be the possibility of a new society of nomadic ocean people emerging from the effects of this? Or even a theory I have proposed before, building ocean cities out at sea much lower populations than a typical land city living off of genetically modified underwater vegetation and fish, crustaceans grown in nurseries all around? We could build large swaths of solar energy collectors, hydrogen plants, as well as developing new technology to harvest energy from the oceans currents?

Sure millinos may perish as a result of global flooding, but it may be a wake up call to humanity to trim down our numbers, and learn to respect our environment and our relationship more. I am not saying this event would be a cause of our habits, I just mean to develop a better sense of respect for the elements to plan better when we decide where to locate our population centers.

Originally posted by DYepes
develop a better sense of respect for the elements to plan better when we decide where to locate our population centers.

I sure can agree with that. Our dependence on sea borne shipping for trade has made our oceanic coastlines heavily dotted with densely populated port cities. There's no getting around the fact that global trade would be hamstrung without them.

Sometimes our dependance on age old technologies is the very thing which puts us at risk. Without those huge container ships bringing us goods from around the world, we'd be isolated from our trading partners. With port facilities under water, there'd be no way to unload/load those ships.

Never mind a 75 foot tsunami hitting the west coast of America, for instance...even a 'slow' rise in sea level of the kind discussed in this thread would put many ports out of business when their docks are under 15 or more feet of water.

Along with everything else that has been mentioned on this particular subject, I read this today on CNN.com:

edition.cnn.com...
OSLO, Norway (AP) -- It sounds like something from a science fiction film -- a doomsday vault carved into a frozen mountainside on a secluded Arctic island ready to serve as a Noah's Ark for seeds in case of a global catastrophe.

But Norway's ambitious project is on its way to becoming reality. Construction began Monday on the Svalbard Global Seed Vault, designed to house as many as 3 million of the world's crop seeds.

This really made me think that we are probably not being told all that is known about global warming and the dangers we are facing. I have said for years that it actually "felt" hotter to me, but thought I was just part of getting older. I believe its much more than that now. MODS, please forgive me if I posted this incorrectly. I'm a learning newbie.

source added, quote shortened.

[edit on 6-26-2006 by worldwatcher]

Here's the link to the above post.

If you have a difficulty with posting links, please U2U me or any of the moderators which are listed at the top of this page.

Interesting segway in this story, though.

loam, correct me if I am wrong, but as the ice sheet melts, and the coolant effect the surface ice has on the environment continues to decrease, will this not increase the temperature of the planet and cause even more melting? There is a point of equilibrium in any system, and we may have already gone past the tipping point which allows the system to maintain that equilibrium. To put it politely, we may already be screwed and are too damn arrogant to acknowledge the fact.

there is not much we can do, some people think that we are past the point of no return in global warming. It is unlikly that we can repair the damage, we can only delay the outcome.

unwater cities are very expensive to build and maintain, moving to high ground is good, but we will have to move our farms there as well. Open space and fresh water will properably be a problem. Surviving the extreme weather conditions willl be a big problem (heat waves, blizaards, storms, hurricanes, etc.)

there will properably be a few wars for the scarce resources left. things are not looking good, get off the planet while you can.....!!

many experts will need to be in 10 feet of water before possibily accepting global warming is taking place , some will still be in denial.... !!

I LOVE THE HUMAN RACE!!

7,000,000,000 plus people and going up fast.
And the death rate is going dawn.
God help us if we get a immortality serum.
Chine is the only country trying to stem the flood.
Families are supposed to have just one child.
That is a very good idea.
But that would mean less people buying goods!
And what about the 3 word countries!
They are close to nature,
so when there is too many people they die! simple.
More food for those left.
But the west sends loads off food.
So they live of that and are in no hurry to live of the land.
Each year there population grows.
And when the west stops sending food.
There is a LOT more people to die,
A LOT more than if they wear left to die each year.
When the flood comes we will move to high ground.
In tight groups.
It’s a shame we will never learn.
Evan if 90% die we would still go on to make the same mistakes.
We are like lemmings.
America gets most of the blame because they are big and are sticking their finger in every bodies eye!
"Hay dinosaurs wait for us!"

Nice find, i think it will open the eyes of some ppl in here i hope.

I know most of ppl wont agree with me but i think history have been rewrote several time i think our knowledges of our planet is just plain wrong. We always think our planet and the evolution took million and million of years but i"m prety sure its all wrong. The shape of the Earth is changing faster than anyone predictions and we gonna see major changements soon enuff to realize we need to do somthing now not only for our children but for ourselves as well too.

I'm sure the main concern from those Groenland fresh water glacier is not sea level but more the ammount of fresh water released into the Antlantic ocean. This could cause a major chill effect by stoping ocean stream to generate warmer water to coast city in a cyclical way.

When i read all the great addition you guys have put i think its safe to say we are living a climate change, the Groenland earthquake post is realy interesting, the Norwegian Arch too. Just think where W Bush will be in 2012 , he will be on a land he bought for cheap with the money he made from family oil during Iraq war on a beautiful new beach created by the rise of sea level ... do you think he care , hes out in 2-3 years, he will be triggered worst prez ever but with his pocket full of $$$$$$$$

Bad grammar scares me, not sensational doomsday senarios.

The doomsday scenarios attributed to global warming are no more significant than the predictions made about y2k. Sure the earth's temperature is rising, but so what? I enjoy the ingenuity of humankind, especially my own, and we will overcome whatever obstacles stand in our way. Beubonic plagues, world wars, influenzas and tsunamis have not been enough to hault human advancement, so I doubt whether the probable prospect of rising sea levels will be any different.

Please don't be swept up by these predictions of impening doom; there is still much to learn and much to discuss.

Originally posted by Xeven
I find it laughable that people who swear there is no global warming would rather wait and see?

Why? It is a theory, and is very debatable. I think most of the debate hinges on the doomsday scenarios that can occur as a result of global warming.

Originally posted by XevenWe should start massive R&D into alternative fuels and enviroment reaserch instead of spending billions on a war that wont matter if the earth burns its O2 atmosphere away and all humans cease to exist.

It would be nice, but defense industry is a business, and a big business which has been around for a very long time. From the earliest recorded time in human civilization, government regulated defense industries have always been the largest cauldrons for advances in math, science and engineering, yet as of late most governments are pushing towards non-military research, but still a big business none the less.

Originally posted by XevenThe time to Panic is now and not when the earth is near dead.

[edit on 26-6-2006 by enaught]

It is about time greenland is really green

Gobal Warming is happening..................but is it mans fault? I think not......humans may not be helping the situation any but Earth used to be a warm humid, wet planet. Science has shown that the planet has had numerous warm up, cool down periods.

Could this be just part of the life style of a planet?

No one knows (humans have been around for how long?....10,000 yrs out of an esimated 4 billion years?) ................know one will know until it is to late. MO is is part of the planet lifecycle with man contributing a small bit.

Originally posted by enaught
"the ingenuity of humankind"

-and-

"Beubonic plagues"

Not intending to put your thoughts down, enaught, I do respect your opinion.

But...

Isn't it a fact that one way humanity reacted to the Bubonic Plague was the killing of cats (cuz they look evil and their eyes shine at night)? That was the opposite of what should have been done, since cats kill the rats which were the carriers and the cause.

I'd prefer we don't trip and stumble on our path, putting up with mistakes in judgement and saying (for instance); "Oh, well...we'll get through it. Let's invest in new port facilities on low-lying coastlines."