The U. S. Government WORKS For PRIVATE BANKS and BANKERS!

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Correct me if i am wrong, but hasn't the overwhelming majority of America's debt been bought out by Chinese Banks? So, Don't we in effect answer to those we owe the most, in this case: Chinese Banks?

The national debt maybe $9 trillion, but the Chinese are not the biggest bond holders.
We owe the most to the Crown, dynastic banking families. They own the United States.

The private (consumers, businesses) debt is like $26 trillion.

This is rather simplistic (plus it's 4 a.m.) but...Waaay back when, local Savings and Loans were opened to help fight against the coruption and monopoly of big banks. Perhaps something along the same lines is due.

It's funny, I paid off a credit card a few weeks ago and yesterday in the mail I get a letter saying they are increasing my limit. I can almost hear the bank saying, "Wait, come back! Don't have a zero balance, go into debt even more!" I have one more card to pay off and then I'm done with credit cards. I'll keep the accounts open so I don't screw my credit rating but they are going to collect some dust.

Cash only from here on out. Hell, I've even been able to barter with some of the local stores, service for service....

midnight destroyer


sorry pal

too late

NWO is already here

aka , mystery babylon [ babylon ruled openly , mystery babylon rules secretly ]

only thing is, it is becoming more

obvious than in previous years.


there have been lots of books written trying
to warn people but the media was already
out of the hands of joe citizen by the 30's
and quashed any effort to inform citizens of the plot[s]

the whores bought out mass media back then
and slowly , surely , step by step inch by inch
they turn up the heat on the frogs in the pot
[ that's you n me , the frogs ]

now it is getting hot in the pot and folks are
angry AND confused !


what does one do ?
ALAS ,only "the people" can fix this , NOT the gov't...


toasted

Originally posted by Katolu
I have one more card to pay off and then I'm done with credit cards. I'll keep the accounts open so I don't screw my credit rating but they are going to collect some dust.

Good idea. However, it may be another good idea to make sure they don't charge you a few bucks every year.......Service fees! See, they can try to get you even when you're going!
Actually, you don't need credit cards at all to keep a good credit rating; just keep your regular bills (utilities, phone, etc) paid up in good time & that credit rating will still build.

Originally posted by toasted
too late
NWO is already here...

...what does one do ?
ALAS ,only "the people" can fix this , NOT the gov't...

Well, maybe they're here, but they're not quite fully in control yet. I never said that the Government needs to stop it; I'm fully aware of how the Government supports it.
Even though ATS is more of a "research & discussion" type of site, there are a lot of organizations that actually fight NWO. NWO may be near it's final stages of control in the US, but they still have the Constitution to finish off (No, it's not dead yet, but it's slipping into a coma as we speak) before the nation's activist organizations actually use it against them.

Originally posted by toasted
there have been lots of books written trying
to warn people but the media was already
out of the hands of joe citizen by the 30's

Ever hear of "grass roots" support? Word-of-mouth? Right now, we still have the internet as a worldwide forum; Even though major comm corps (like AT&T) are trying to lobby the Government to allow corporate control on what access the People have, there's already people fighting it.
For example, I've posted a couple of activist orgs around ATS before, but I may as well mention them again: We the People Foundation & Move On have actually been making headway against political pig-headedness. I mentioned the corp control of internet? Move On is running a project called "Save the Internet" right now. There's plenty of other places that do some good too but you have to look them up & check out what they're doing. The major problem is that there's too many "sheeple" holding laundry tickets & waiting to pick up their brains; A lot of good activist organizations need more people for support.
Bully Bush & his Corporate Cronies can laugh off a mere few thousand people at a time & brush them under the media rug, but the US population breaks over the 292 million mark (the entire military only accounts for 2% - 3% of that total)...THAT'S something they couldn't ignore!
What if the whole nation boycotts banks & volunatarily goes back to barter? If the banks can't loan out any more debt to the People anymore, how are they going to continue bribing the politico fatcats? Even the Federal Reserve couldn't stand up to that either.

Since it seems that the wholoe "banking system" is what's at the top of the NWO agenda (at least, they're the ones financing it), what would happen to the NWO plans if the banks fall? :O

If you want more info...Well, I've been posting info & links for a long time around ATS. Look me up in the Member List; I'm not hard to find--One the first page, number 13. Below my profile, you can Search for all my posts. Use that list to get into some information that has even slipped way past the "Recent Topics" listings on the forum home page. If nothing else, use my Postings List can show you info from others too, not just me.

Too bad that Dave's not in US Radio...The People could sure use a good ol'-fashioned "rabbit-punch" to wake 'em up & get their attention...

[edit on 1-9-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Good Morning, ATS! (Yeah, yeah, I know it wasn't you portrayed in the movie, but I thought it was entertaining anyway--And since I started looking through your forum here, I think you're entertaining too)

I've recently been pushing through a website named Pushing Hamburger and it looks to me that it's not merely the banks that are doing everybody in. It's more like the banks are #1 on the list of "People To Do You In Today". Not just the USA either, but worldwide. The banks use "fiat money" which has no value & they can generate a never-ending supply of it out of thin air, but they still use it to bring nations to their knees, land & real resources into their pockets & drive the individal into abject slavery.

There's a whole thread right here that gets into a lot of detail already.

I hope I die befoe the banks actually achieve NWO...I'm not really all that old, but I ain't no "spring chicken" anymore either.

[edit on 1-9-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]

i dont see what the big beef with fiat money is? ok, historiclly everytime fiat money gets brought in it screws things up, but that i only when things are already heading out of control anyway.

In a documentery called 'money masters' the author spoke very highly of fiat money and gave several examples of how well it worked. for example tally sticks, i believe he the author sayed it worked for hundreds of years.

the problem is not the value of money, money should not have value, but mearly be a means to exchange goods conveniently. another problem is who is in control of deciding how much money is needed in the economy. as it stands the public has no say in who is monitoring our "money".

Loans are another big mistake, that should not effect the value of goods but they do. Because it is so easy to go to the bank and ask for a loan of a mounts that could take you nearly half your life to pay back, no moderate citizen can realisticly save to puchase a home (i'll argue that if i need to) the value of homes are not based on how much the average citizen can save, it is based on how much we can borrow.

Loans are not only how we base our housing market, it is also how we disperse needed money into the economy. so i guess they got us by the walnuts.

why not instead disperse the money through government spending? the bigger we get, the more bridges and highways we will need (print some money), the more doctors we'll need ( print some money) the more teachers we will need (print some money) and so on. all of the people that will recieve government issued money will need to spend it some place, so there is still room for buisness. and heres on idea, anybody that gets caught handling public funds irresponsibly will be thrown in jail like anyone else except longer. that should allow for a little more kickback to the treasury when ever we get lazy (thus not spending the printed money) making a surplus (instead of printing even more money) and balanced budget.

MD

yeah , grassroots [ didn't they sing somethin' ] ?


and yeah , thru we the people, I found

aaron russos film [ even tho I knew most of it ]

I'm glad I took the time to go, too bad I was
late , and there weren't MORE people attending.

if 2012 is as the hopi say,[ a decision time ]
considering how things are going, it looks as if
it'll take til then to raise awareness to decide what we'll do !



toasted

Originally posted by tom goose
the problem is not the value of money, money should not have value, but mearly be a means to exchange goods conveniently.

Actually, the best economic systems did have money with real value. Coins made of precious metals have always worked well. The Consitution provides Congress with the power to "coin" our money; during those times, people actually mined it & brought it to the nearest (authorized) State or (branch) Federal mint to determine is purity & stamp it into coin form.

The problem with fiat money is that it doesn't represent any measure of labor or value for goods...It represents debt. It seems that the problem with your source is that he's too "tied into" the staus quo to seriously contemplate economic systems that really mean anything except being subject to financial slavery. Using the Tally Sticks, if control of it's economy is given to private Corps, is that they can do the same way that way instead of with paper money. The only form of "paper" money that should be allowed in an economy should be based upon the Government itself...Treasury Notes & such, which must also be tied into the nation's GNP (Gross National Production). The problem is not whether the "money" itself has any intrinsic value to it; It's the fact that it's creation & use is in the hands of private corporations!

Originally posted by tom goose
why not instead disperse the money through government spending? the bigger we get, the more bridges and highways we will need (print some money), the more doctors we'll need ( print some money) the more teachers we will need (print some money) and so on.

The problem with that is it creates inflation & the devaluation of the money used. If the "money" is not tied in very closely with a nation's actual production, then any "extra" money reduces the value of the labor & goods, as well as the value of each bit of money that remains in circulation. The only way to prevent or reduce inflation would be to pull more money out of circulation.

This is a problem that the Fed Res created in the first place...As a privately owned corporation, it puts out money that has no value to begin with & they can make as much of it as they want to bankrupt everybody, through loans & interest.
The Consitution & the Founding Fathers who wrote it wanted the Government to restrict Corporations (back then, known as Charters) at least as much as the Constitution itself restricts the Government.

The Federal Reserve is a private bank. It doesn't matter if your Republican or Democrat.
Bush or Clinton. All presidents answer to private bankers.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Actually, the best economic systems did have money with real value. Coins made of precious metals have always worked well. The Consitution provides Congress with the power to "coin" our money; during those times, people actually mined it & brought it to the nearest (authorized) State or (branch) Federal mint to determine is purity & stamp it into coin form.

precious metals only work until they come in short supply, which can happen easily when someone decides they want to corner the gold market by buying all the gold from another country.

I understand what you mean by devalueing currency by printing more than is neccessary, but no matter what we use to exchange that would be a problem. so take the value out of money ( that solves one problem) and put it in the hands of those that are elected. As the population grows we are going to need more and more money for more products, but what if we run out of gold? we are going to end up at fiat anyway.

Governments through history have often switched to forms of fiat money in times of need such as war, sometimes by suspending the service they provided of exchanging their money for gold, and other times by simply printing the money that they needed. When governments produce money more rapidly than economic growth, the money supply overtakes economic value. Therefore, the excess money eventually dilutes the market value of all money issued. This is called inflation. See open market operations.

en.wikipedia.org...

fiat money just gets a bad name, because it is brought out at the wrong time, and controled by the wrong people.

to be honest though, i dont care how they do it, but if they dont change something then im just going to continue to "Just Say No" to paying taxes, thanks mrs. reagan

So... this is a Neocon problem? Bush got into office and all of a sudden we worked for banks and oil companies? That is what I get after reading alot of post, neocon this, neocon that.. those evil neocons they will ruin us all. No one else is causing this problem?

Just want to make sure I am understanding here, or is it you think everyone is at fault including the American people for allowing it to happen - which is where I stand, everyone is at fault and the power players are from both political parties.

Also I just wanted to make sure that if I go see this movie it is not going to be a michael moore Bush bashing anti conservative film?

I hate partisianship...

This isn't just an American problem! Its worldwide affecting every country that is controlled by a Rothchild Central Bank. This has nothing to do with left or right except that all political leaders answer to the Private International Bankers first, themselves second, Mega Corporations, the Gov't businesses, The U.N., the lobbyists, and this & that & this & that .................... and finally at last the voting public.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
So... this is a Neocon problem? Bush got into office and all of a sudden we worked for banks and oil companies?

Nope...The problem actually started early in American history. The Constitution provided the Government with the Right to appropriate Public Lands for the purposes of "providing for the common defense" (to build fortresses & the like) and to erect "other needful buildings", such as the Post Offices. When the Government first appropriated land to build roads to deliver the Post Office Mail, they didn't keep the lands for the Government in PUblic Service...They instead turned those Lands over to Private Corporations (foriegn Corps, no less) to do the roadwork. That was the first & biggest mistake & it only got more prevalent from there.

The first banks in America were also foriegn...English, actually. But the single biggest modern mistake was to put a consortium of private banks in charge of the nation's economy (The Federal Reserve). They're the ones who pushed us out of a gold or silver standard...They're the ones who introduced fiat money as the only "legal" currency available. Three years after Roosevelt signed the Federal Reserve Act is how long it took him to realize the scope of the mistake he made.

As far as Bush goes, what could you expect? He bankrupted two large businesses before he "acquired" the Oval Office.

^^^^^^^^^ I know when the problem started, how, why and by who. I was simply asking if this movie, and those on this board thought that it was a neocon problem. Thanks though for the information.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I was simply asking if this movie, and those on this board thought that it was a neocon problem.

Sometimes, when someone applies a "new" term for a very old concept (ie: neocon), it may lead to a bit of confusion as to where it all started. To the best of my research (I don't restrict myself to any single source or even a single approach on how & where I research), the most plausable theory I've been able to construct goes like this:

In the early days of Mesopotamia & Egypt, those people who were the leaders of the "organized" religions would preach general, good sense behavior to the "flock" of the mere commoners. Of course, if you know of the histories of ancient civilizations, you know that, since illiteracy was the "norm", a lot of the religious tenants were taught through the use of the "mystery plays", performed on stage. Of course, those who designed & directed those mystery plays held the "deep secrets" of the religion itself. Those who were not inducted into the "mystery cult" could only learn a small part of the religious tenants, while those who were members of the mystery cult caught secret messages & information that the commoners missed. These "mystery cults" were the backbone of what we would today call the "secret societies".

Secret Societies have, literally, been around about as long as "society" itself. Down through the ages, some of these societies have been rooted out, exposed & some got banned (or either became more secrative & went further underground); Adam Weshaupt's Bavarian Illuminati is a fairly famous example of a secret society that got caught. Secret Societies are still all around us...Freemasons, the Skull & Bones that Bush is a member of, Bilderburgs...The list goes on & on. These are only the ones that have some kind of public "face", so who can say how many are so far "underground" that the general public has never heard of them? How many have been caught in history but may still be around, still operating?

Of those that were caught & (apparently) disbanded, it was determined that they were still adhering to the practices & rituals that first originated from those very same "mystery cults" in more ancient times! Even though Pres. Bush professes publicly to practice Christianity, who knows what he really may be practicing at those Skull & Bones meetings? Not just Bush for a theoretical example, but consider this ancient, religious connection to the modern secret societies & start asking, "Whatever they say in public, what really are they doing & why?"

You also must remember that those ancient "mystery cults" worshipping pantheons of gods; Consider the high levels of "religious intolerence" that fueled so many wars all down through history:
Everyone must be "one of us", everyone must follow our way of life. Everyone must bow to the will of our gods. We have the secret wisdom of our gods, so therfore, everyone must serve us.

Even the pantheistic Egyptians went through a short period of monotheism; recall the reign of the "heretic Pharoah", Akenaten. There is some archeological evidence that Moses grew up in Egypt about that time...Perhaps one may have been an influence of some kind on the other? Which one influenced which? These qeustions are only a small part of history; the point here is that, not only the religious cults that still existed after Akenaten's "religious restructuring" really resented that. The general population of Egypt was still firmly rooted in pantheism as well; it wouldn't take much for the "old" religious mainstream to chip away at Akenaten & his "heresy". Even in the new city he founded, the general population still possessed the icons of their previous worship & still venerated the pantheon.

The monotheism introduced by Pharoah was quickly squelched when he died. His successor was (perhaps) the most famous of Egyptian Pharoahs; Tutankamon! Needless to say, with a boy as Pharoah, the "old school" religion had no trouble restoring things back to "status quo". There was even some indications that little king Tut fell because of the religious "secret society" that reviled his ancestor.

So it seems pretty obvious that "secret societies" have a pretty good handle & loads of multi-generational experience when it comes to directing the course of entire nations. All through the medeval times & even into the "Age of Enlightenment" of the Renaissance, religions had firm control of the hearts & minds of the general public; well-noted thinkers who seemed to contradict the religion were labeld as heretics & blasphemers. Recall such names as Nostradme, Galileo & many others who were condemmed by the Church-Recall the Crusades--Recall the Roman invasion of the Keltoi, as much for religious conversion as for conquering the land.

The USA was founded on the monotheistic Judeo-Christian tenants. To these "Mystery Cults/Secret Societies", the concept of Freedom for the Individual would be a blasphemy. All throughout history, they've been able to squash such ideals, but the USA is unique in that the nation & the government was founded upon such principles derived from a Judeo-Christian faith. So the Eurpoean (mostly English) secret societies that have been able to keep religion firmly shackled under the tenants of a religion considered it their "sacred duty" to manipulate that "upstart nation" into ruin...Is any of this starting to sound more familiar?

Yes, secret societies began in religion, expanded into commerce as to better increase influence...Once banks were invented to control commerce, from there it was easy to use commerce & commercialism to manipulate governments. Why do you think that, even today, the two most widespread monotheistic religions (who both worship the same God, BTW) are fighting each other? Because they are a "blasphemy" to the gods that are worshipped by the secret societies that have the most control!

In most of the world, who controls money? Banks. What is it that money controls? Commerce & Governments. What's going to be the driving force behind establishing the NWO? Money! And they're doing it with fake money that has no value & manipulating national policy to do it!

What's more, I'm willing to bet that the governments that go along with this plan have no idea who's really going to be on top when the "compost connects with the rotary oscillator". When they "join" the NWO, they will (by definition) lose their positions of authority; as nations (a large number of small groups that rule the various nations) butt heads, the "winners" are only going to be a single small group...Even one else are slaves to that group. What's the single class of people who control the real influence? BANKS! When you look at the major shareholders of the largest international banks, you're looking at the "secret society" that will rule the NWO! So the NWO is going to be ruled over by a small group of "pagan" pantheist worshippers!

Of course, this is only theory, based upon history & research into a wide variety of subjects...But it's the best theory I've been able to come up with, considering the evidence I've been able to find.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Also I just wanted to make sure that if I go see this movie it is not going to be a michael moore Bush bashing anti conservative film?

I hate partisianship...

If you even look at the film's website it is obvious that is not the case. In fact this movie seems to be reinforcing the fact that partisanship is part of the game to keep us polarized, and we are falling for it hook, line & sinker.

P.S. - Thanks MidnightD for pointing out this thread to me, I don't know how I missed it.

[edit on 9/11/2006 by Relentless]

I dug up a few quotes that just may generate some new thoughts into this thread...Here we go:

"It is well that people of the nation do not understand our banking system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."--Henry Ford

"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."--J. Edgar Hoover, former Director of the FBI

"I believe banking institutions pose a greater danger to our liberties than standing armies."--Thomas Jefferson

"The easiest way to control a notion of people in a "free" country is to control their system of money and keep them indebted to those who control the money."--Louis T. McFadden

"I have the Confederate Army in front of me and I have the Banks behind me. Of the two, the Banks are more dangerous."--Abraham Lincoln

Where did you find that first quote by henry ford

Im puttng that on the back of my freestar

reply to post by Dave Rabbit

with all due respect for the hard work you've done, i'm 55 and yes i'm one of those people scared sh--less by where this country is going. i will now no longer make comments pertaining to this subject. being involved in the "computer field" for a long time, i can say with complete confidence that EVERY keystroke of EVERY message that pass through the LIMITED amount of critical choakpoints that ALL computers and servers MUST pass through have now been compromised. so to speak, that horse has already left the barn. good luck and...happy new year!!!!! all people now need to use their heads and plan out a strategy for themselves and their families.

Originally posted by tazadar

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Correct me if i am wrong, but hasn't the overwhelming majority of America's debt been bought out by Chinese Banks? So, Don't we in effect answer to those we owe the most, in this case: Chinese Banks?

The national debt maybe $9 trillion, but the Chinese are not the biggest bond holders.
We owe the most to the Crown, dynastic banking families. They own the United States.

The private (consumers, businesses) debt is like $26 trillion.

Supposedly the US can buy back the fed for about $450 million. If so then the crown and dynasty families are the ones that will get screwed. I can see us taking back the fed, printing up trillions in fiat dollars, pay off the debt and then start over with a new currency. Then cancel all banking debts of the populance, recaptilaize and heavily regulate the banks and start all over with a more sound currency system. There isn't enough gold in the world to fully back any currency, so something else would have to be devised. Something based on the value of work or something similar would probably be most desirable.