Closer look: Iranian Navy

Iranian Navy

Just some google earth stuff:

Man Im amazed the stuff you can find with Google earth. Once again another great post planeman

Great job finding the Kilo class Subs

again cool topic
just shows Iran isnt another Iraq

Originally posted by bodrul
again cool topic

just shows Iran isnt another Iraq

I would argue that it shows just how vulnerable Iran is. If you can see and identify a target that is a huge advantage.

Just imagine how much better the military satellites are than google earth.

The US is probably tracking all of those exposed systems by the minute. I wonder how Iran keeps track of US troops and vehicles besides using google earth?

Great find Planeman! They do have some nice equiptment though.

Originally posted by Low Orbit

Great find Planeman! They do have some nice equiptment though.

maybe they are using the sats they launched a while ago to keep an eye on them

Originally posted by Low Orbit

Originally posted by bodrul
again cool topic

just shows Iran isnt another Iraq

I would argue that it shows just how vulnerable Iran is. If you can see and identify a target that is a huge advantage.

Just imagine how much better the military satellites are than google earth.

The US is probably tracking all of those exposed systems by the minute. I wonder how Iran keeps track of US troops and vehicles besides using google earth?

Great find Planeman! They do have some nice equiptment though.

I could argue that you can also use Google Earth to spot USN, Royal Navy or any other ships around the world. It's rather hard to hide a warship, you know.

And as said above, Iran has sat's too.

Originally posted by stumason
I could argue that you can also use Google Earth to spot USN, Royal Navy or any other ships around the world.

Not really, Google Earth is not a good spy tool period, let alone for a dynamic situation, such as a war. From looking at GE images of my area I can tell you that its pictures are at least 4-5 years old, they are not updated on a daily basis. Not to mention that its resolution is not as good as those of spy satellites, and you only get a good resolution in major and populated areas, as such its worthless for spotting ships out at sea and in non major ports. Most modern countries can also track commercial satellites such as GE or ICONOS and can take measures to ensure that anything they don't want photographed remains hidden while the satellite passes by overhead.

Originally posted by stumason
And as said above, Iran has sat's too.

If I’m not mistaken just one, correct, launched by Russia? And that's not even a true spy satellite. I have my doubts about its capabilities and survivability as well.

[edit on 17-6-2006 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by stumason
And as said above, Iran has sat's too.

If I’m not mistaken just one, correct, launched by Russia? And that's not even a true spy satellite. I have my doubts about its capabilities and survivability as well.

What doubts do you have about the servivability of the Iranian sat?

At any rate, it is likely that Iran is being fed intell by China and/or Russia. Whether that makes the Iranian Navy any better off is open to question but the fact remains that Iran is no more susceptible to spy sats than anyone else.

Nice pics... I'am impressed... But let's face it... are they really a challenge to the United States Navy... no... nice pics though...

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Not really, Google Earth is not a good spy tool period, let alone for a dynamic situation, such as a war. From looking at GE images of my area I can tell you that its pictures are at least 4-5 years old, they are not updated on a daily basis. Not to mention that its resolution is not as good as those of spy satellites, and you only get a good resolution in major and populated areas, as such its worthless for spotting ships out at sea and in non major ports. Most modern countries can also track commercial satellites such as GE or ICONOS and can take measures to ensure that anything they don't want photographed remains hidden while the satellite passes by overhead.

If I’m not mistaken just one, correct, launched by Russia? And that's not even a true spy satellite. I have my doubts about its capabilities and survivability as well.

[edit on 17-6-2006 by WestPoint23]

Westy, I appreciate the pics are old, but in the context of this thread, Google Earth is entirely relevant.

The pics obtained above are likely as reliable for real-time intel as Google earth, if not actually from Google earth.

So, I will state again that, in replying to the post that stated

"I would argue that it shows just how vulnerable Iran is. If you can see and identify a target that is a huge advantage."

Iran is not "vunerable" because warships can be spotted by Google Earth. I can spot USN ships using Google Earth, but the USN is not vunerable. As you correctly stated, the pics are months if not years old.

Also, you cannot just hide a warship every time a sat flies over, so just because pics of some of their ships appear on Google earth, does not mean they are vunerable.

Likewise, even if spotted by a mil sat, they can only tell you so much. Real; intelligence is gathered on the ground, not from orbit (remember the Iraqi "mobile weapons labs"? They could have been whatever you claimed them to be....

Do you see my point I was making? The poster incorrectly assumed Iran to be vunerable because some ships are on Google earth, when we can all find ships of all Navies if we look.

Hope I made myself clear.

Originally posted by planeman
What doubts do you have about the servivability of the Iranian sat?

I happen to think its vulnerable to being jammed.

Link

Originally posted by stumason
Do you see my point I was making? The poster incorrectly assumed Iran to be vunerable because some ships are on Google earth, when we can all find ships of all Navies if we look.

Stumason I understand what you are saying but I believe the poster in question was trying to say that in a confrontation Iranian assets can be monitored and to an extent tracked via spy satellites in real time, Iran in return cannot do the same to the US.

Thanks Westpoint, that was exactly what I was trying to assert.

Just as your article above states space superiority is the name of the game. Whoever has space superiority/intelligence will win the war.

For people to assert that Iran will be much more difficult to attack than Iraq was is missinformed at best.

As mentioned already Iran only has one spy satelite and is getting intelligence from either Russia or China.

I wonder if Russia and China's intelligence will be better this time than it was in Iraq?

abcnews.go.com...

link

Sorry to hijack your post planeman.

(mod edit to reduce long url to a short link)

[edit on 23-6-2006 by pantha]

Originally posted by planeman
What doubts do you have about the servivability of the Iranian sat?

At any rate, it is likely that Iran is being fed intell by China and/or Russia. Whether that makes the Iranian Navy any better off is open to question but the fact remains that Iran is no more susceptible to spy sats than anyone else.

I think what he meant or at least what I mean is that Iran does not currently have the ability to put satellites into orbit as yet. Thats a direct precursor to ICBM technology.
The do build satellites which are launched byt he Russians. Although the downlink feed received by these satellites may not be in direct control of the Iranians. I think the Russians relay them the feed. That is area of doubt.

this will more resistance then the iraq.

pretty good navy, to win a naval war vs the US, Iran only needs to make the Persian Gulf insecure, the US has to constantly re-supply it's mess in Iraq and friendly Persian Gulf waters are essential, if war comes at least some of those Iranian antiship missiles are going to hit something.

Originally posted by bodrul
again cool topic

just shows Iran isnt another Iraq

You're kidding right?

Ok so they have some ships. lol

Before any leave harbor its a simple matter of some cruise missle and they are done. Lets not make some ships and subs out into an unstopabble armada or even a threat to the US Navy.

Iran is a flashier Iraq.

In fact lets be real iran and iraq fought against eachother to a stand still for a decade and then we crushed iraq twice with ease. Even right now with all the hyped up bad news in Iraq and objective person can see we are winning big time. Yes I know may name is not objective.

They do not have an air force or navy worth mentioning, not against the US. Also the training of their men is questionable.

Like Saddam the government does not have the support of the people.

plus we do not need to invade Iran.

If any ground forces are used it would be special forces at primary sites of concern whom might already be there in Iran.

People make it sound like we are bogged down in Iraq but were not especially not to fight Iran, its a simple matter of having planes and cruise missles turn right instead of left when they leave the carrier or cruiser. Take a look at a map.

Irans navy lol
they might scare a third world country.

Oh and you only see USN navy ships on google becuase the dod lets you see them, in critical times those pics are censored.

I'm not biased either way on this, but out of curiosity American Madman, how do propose the USN would defend against the small stealth torpedo boats seen, which on radar would be pretty much identical to a tiny fishing boat of which there are literally thousands in the gulf - are the USN going to destroy literally every civilian fishing boat that ventures within 50miles of their warships???? - collateral damage limitation out the window and all.

And how do you propose the US counters the SA-15 Tor SAM systems Iran is acquiring which can literally shoot down incoming cruise missiles and falling bombs?

Originally posted by planeman
I'm not biased either way on this, but out of curiosity American Madman, how do propose the USN would defend against the small stealth torpedo boats seen, which on radar would be pretty much identical to a tiny fishing boat of which there are literally thousands in the gulf - are the USN going to destroy literally every civilian fishing boat that ventures within 50miles of their warships???? - collateral damage limitation out the window and all.

And how do you propose the US counters the SA-15 Tor SAM systems Iran is acquiring which can literally shoot down incoming cruise missiles and falling bombs?

The small torpedo boats.

Their composition is different then small fishing boats #1, #2 there engines make a different sound, and that is very is easily detected and catalogued by the USN subs plus knowing about these boats and their potential there is no way any ship small fishing boat or not gets anywhere near a USN ship they have prepared for this sort of action we are not talking about a navy at port. I know the iranian torpedos are supposed to be fast BUT what is the range of the torpedo and what is their guidance system? As for engagement any ships that head at high speed for an USN ship can and will be targeted. Torpedos aren't new... Neither are small fast attack craft.

The carrier groups have an established operating area which they can control, and not every fishing ship and torpedo boat is going to make a sudden dash towards USN ship at once. The only way those small torpedo boats get any chance is a preemptive action otherwise they are already targeted and might as well be considered sunk.

As for the SAMS

An easy straight forward answer is this. We can luanch more cruise missles and UCAVs then they can defend against by far. You can also put up decoys to atract fire and let them waste their precious missles. Or electronically put up decoys.

Sure they might be able to shoot down some cruise missles or uav's and then what when they run out of Sams... We won't be waiting for their next shipment to continue our attack. And thats if the systems are effective to begin with.

Plus its been documented that small teams of operators have been able to infiltrate an enemys comand and control network. For all we know those shiny new missles never launch because the network that controls them gets squashed.

We have our ways...

Ok, I'll chip in with my own opinion based on the current extent of my ongoing research - I won't say too much as I'm going to put together a better threat analysis in the near future.

But the short of it is that the Iranian military, Navy included, cannot and do not expect to beat the US in a conventional shooting war. If the US all-out attacks Iran then most of the Iranian military assets would be destroyed straight off the bat and the remainder, although posing a credible threat far beyond Iraq in 1991, will not be nearly enough to stop the inevitable defeat.

But Iran does poses several weapon systems which would pose the greatest real threat the US military has experienced since Vietnam and we could expect some serious US losses such as carriers.

There are also other "low intensity conflict" scenarios to consider like blockade in support of UN sanctions, limited air strike, no-fly zone enforcement etc. In these scenarios the iranians could truly bloody the US' nose.

Another aspect, is the impact of possible new acquisitions - if Iran does get its hands on anything like S-300PMU2/S-300v/S-400/FT-2000 et al SAMs from Russia or China, we could be looking at a drastic increase in potency.

[edit: removed quote of Entire preceeding post]


Point taken. USN has never really faced a threat other then cold war russia since ww2 I don't remember seeing or reading much about naval engagements in Vietnam or Korea only brown water stuff and Iran seems to certainly have more then the USN has faced, but that might be only because they haven't really faced anything. So I'm not sure if that saying much.

I remember a naval officer giving his opinion on the super cavetating torpedo during a news brief and he said that the guidance system and range was piss poor and that the ship could be intercepted long before they could fire. Plus even though radar "might" not pick them up their accoustic signature is just another target and the navy played that game with the russians for a long time. Those torpedo boats sound a hell of a alot different then your avg fishing boat.

I just don't think the iranians pose a threat militarily. In fact I am not sure if any country really poses a threat to the US when it comes to military power.

A naval blockade wouldn't be hard and if by some means the iranians attacked, never mind successfully attack, a Coalition ship it would be their end. Attacking a ship supporting a UN blockade is suicide. I mean suicide nationally sure give us a reason to overthrow the regime, i say arm the people. Same with a no fly zone.

If you could enlighten me on some of those weapon systems iran bought it would be appreciated. BTW I like your presentations I was checking out the US Anti missle post.

[edit on 25-6-2006 by American Madman]

[edit on 25-6-2006 by American Madman]


Quoting on ATS – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 6/25/2006 by 12m8keall2c]