Iran: We Will Never Bow to USA

thanks JIMC5499, though I am hardly worthy.

Its just nice that two people that see things from a totally different perspective can communicate in a civil manner and instead of trying to attack one another we are trying to find the things that we can find common ground on.

I tip my hat to you sir

Originally posted by Leif
I really hope you're right mr conspiracy.

The USA only invades Countries that can't fight back

All the best,

Leif

You do remember Vietnam don't you.

Ok if we're talking Guerilla warfare vs the US army - the Guerilla's might have a chance simply because they fight as civillians.

But most of you are underestimating the strength, size and technological power of the US army. IF you're patrolling on a weekly basis you're a sitting duck to terrorists/insurgents.

However if you're going in all guns blazing against a developed army - there's no restrictions. The US army would have no trouble at all with it. They would loose some men, but they'd be able to overthrow Iran.

Just because the US army isn't doing all that well in Iraq doesn't mean they are weak and unable to fight developed nations. Remember - that is what they are primarily trained for.

And on the note of Russia and China - the are POLITICALLY backing Iran. That, by no means they will MILITARILY help Iran. In fact I am 90% sure that Russia and China would not send troops/missiles/planes to help Iran.

i say we apply conscription, invade Iran before it makes its nukes, build a government there that will BOW to USA. And while we're at it, lets start to re-invade Iraq again.
----And if all goes haywire, we can always have an exit-strategy!

[edit on 17-6-2006 by Dioxholster]

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Russia and China are siding with Iran.

Ehm, it is the other way around, actually. Iran sides with Russia and China, i.e. its employees.

The Afghan waw, the Iraq war, the coming Iran war, the orange revolutions in former USSR countries are all part of the plan to surround Russia.

[edit on 17-6-2006 by TrentReznor]

original quote by:shanemcbain
And on the note of Russia and China - the are POLITICALLY backing Iran. That, by no means they will MILITARILY help Iran. In fact I am 90% sure that Russia and China would not send troops/missiles/planes to help Iran.

Actually, Russia is selling SAM mobile units to Iran.

heres a story from "Faux Snooze"(FoxNews) from dec 2005
Russia sells arms to Iran

Russia Agrees to $1 Billion Arms Deal with Iran

Friday, December 02, 2005
Associated Press

MOSCOW — Russia has agreed to sell more than $1 billion worth of missiles and other defense systems to Iran, Russian news media reported Friday, a move expected to draw a heated reaction from the United States.

The Interfax and ITAR-Tass news agencies cited unidentified sources in the Russian military-industrial complex as saying that Russian and Iranian officials had signed contracts in November that would send up to 30 Tor-M1 missile systems to Iran over the next two years.

Interfax said the Tor-M1 system could identify up to 48 targets and fire at two targets simultaneously at a height of up to 20,000 feet.

Full Story Here:Foxnews.com

you can find out more info on the Tor M1 9M330 Air Defense System here:
defense-update.com

Its not much but Russia is definately selling arms to Iran

I hate to state the obvious to morons, however:

Iraq beat Iran,

Don't post pro-iranian inflammatory personal views unless you have compelling EVIDENCE to show that Iran could withstand an attack from the US. Air power wins wars, and between our Air Force and Navy, we could effective destroy their supply lines within 24 hours of the first engagement with little or no loss of American planes. Secondly, we could shut them off from shipping and receiving goods. Russia won't do a thing and neither will China, don't forget who's money provides the economic backbone in these countries.

Educate yourself before you post strawman arguements.

Although this is from the Middle East Conflict forum, the message fits here as well. I suggest it be read by members who are unsure about how to post on ATS.

[edit on 21-7-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by Logical Mike
I hate to state the obvious to morons, however:

Iraq beat Iran,

Don't post pro-iranian inflammatory personal views unless you have compelling EVIDENCE to show that Iran could withstand an attack from the US. Air power wins wars, and between our Air Force and Navy, we could effective destroy their supply lines within 24 hours of the first engagement with little or no loss of American planes. Secondly, we could shut them off from shipping and receiving goods. Russia won't do a thing and neither will China, don't forget who's money provides the economic backbone in these countries.

Educate yourself before you post strawman arguements.

Theres an old saying: "Any given team can beat any other given team on any given day." It is why we play all our games out to conclusion. Now apply this to the topic at hand . There have been numerous times where an inferior force has "won" despite sometimes, overwhelming odds. To be assured of ones overconfidence is an invitation to ones failure.

Maybe you should read Sun Tzu on the Art of War

SUN TZU ON THE ART OF WAR
THE OLDEST MILITARY TREATISE IN THE WORLD

Translated from the Chinese
By LIONEL GILES, M.A. (1910)

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[This is the basic text of Sun Tzu on the Art of War. It was extracted from Mr. Giles' complete work as titled above. The commentary itself, which, of course includes this work embedded within it, has been released as suntzu10.txt (or suntzu10.zip). This is being released only as an adjunct to that work, which contains a wealth of commentary upon this text.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Art of War has 13 chapters. You can click on the Chapter Number to go to that chapter directly.
Each chapter is hyper-linked to its corresponding Chinese text. You may switch back and forth between the English and the original Chinese text, by clicking on the link at the end of each chapter.
|1 |2 |3 |4 |5 |6 |7 |8 |9 |10 |11 |12 |13


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I. LAYING PLANS


1. Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance
to the State.

2. It is a matter of life and death, a road either
to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry
which can on no account be neglected.

3. The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

4. These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
(4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.

5,6. The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete
accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him
regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger.

7. Heaven signifies night and day, cold and heat,
times and seasons.

8. Earth comprises distances, great and small;
danger and security; open ground and narrow passes;
the chances of life and death.

9. The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom,
sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

10. By method and discipline are to be understood
the marshaling of the army in its proper subdivisions,
the graduations of rank among the officers, the maintenance
of roads by which supplies may reach the army, and the
control of military expenditure.

11. These five heads should be familiar to every general:
he who knows them will be victorious; he who knows them
not will fail.

12. Therefore, in your deliberations, when seeking
to determine the military conditions, let them be made
the basis of a comparison, in this wise:--

It goes alot farthe in depth than what I am able to post here. But suffice it to say, One should always consider ALL possible continencies and outcomes

The implication that; I or anyone else in this debate are uneducated, sir, is a matter of perspective and an irrational assumption on your part. please keep any derogatory personal comments to yourself, thank you.

And BTW we are not fighting the Iraqi regular army.. its the "insurgency"; remember?

Every War and battle therein is unique unto itself and must be taken accordingly.

I hope there is no war at all! I wish not to see the lives of our countrymen; nor those of Iranians, be exstinguished through hostilities.

remember an open mind is a sharp mind.



thank you for your time

I wonder what Russia and China are thinking today? Must be alot of wondering
what to do going on.

Originally posted by toolman

The US needs China, China does not need the US. China's largest trade partner is the EU, while the largest purchaser of US debt is China. Without China bailing out the USA every day, US economy fails.

Toolman you don't understand. Just because the EU is the largest trading partner, does not mean China does not need the US. China's economy is dependent on economic growth. Now if they lose 20% of their business, their economic growth slows, unemployment problems occur. If China didn't need the US, they would not BE purchasing US debt, understand?

EDIT: And China and Russia will not attack the USA over Iran! Puhleaz. Their economies are NOT strong enough to fight in a global war against NATO, and their militaries are not either. I may not trust China and Russia for what they may become, but that does not mean they are stupid.

[edit on 18-7-2006 by RetinoidReceptor]

I do not feel that iran is making anyone look silly except themselves.

They will never bow down to the U.S. Bully for them. Instead, they opt for bowing before China and Russia.

These theocratic nuthouses known as Middle Eastern countries never fail to amuse me in their mentally and emotionally retarded politics.

What about this?

Link

[QUOTE] REPORTS FROM IRAN STATE:

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad has declared he will make an announcement - earliest on Wednesday July 19th, 2006 or in the next few days which:

"WILL LET THE MOSLEM WORLD AROUND THE GLOBE KNOW THAT AFTER THE ANNOUNCEMENT THEY WILL NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ISRAEL'S NUCLEAR ARMS OR NUCLEAR CAPABILITY EVER AGAIN" [/QUOTE]

Will he annonce that they have nuclear weapons?

Agit8dChop I have to disagree with you.

Although Iran won't bow down to the US and worship them once the president has been taken out, I believe that the Iranians will be grateful.

If you chase up history back to the revolution of 1979 you will find that Iran didn't use to have this Islamic Republic as it has now. It was a prosperous country, and its people were to a large extent free, for instance the women weren't forced to wear head scarves and cover up in the manner which the law now requires them to, girls and boys could walk around freely holding hands if they so wished, both sexes could go to the beach and walk arounfd in their bikinis etc. things that we may take for granted. whats more it was a powerful country, the Shah wasn't stupid, he was careful with the oil which he knew the rest of the world needed. which is why America and the UK pushed towards the revolution. And now I believe they need to clean up this mess which they created. My parents both are from Iran but my dad left years before the revolution to go to University in Germany and my mum moved here to London to study where they eventaully met. The point is that our families still in Iran and many many Iranians are desperate for the US to help. So many mothers have lost their sons and husbands due to them speaking out against the government, the gap between the poor and the rich is huge. You wouldn't believe the amount of Iranians who do desire the US to take over, take out the president and give them back their freedom. Don't people see that it is in the best interests of everyone? Iran is the root of it, the root of terrorism.

We have to think in terms of long term. Say the governments back out of Iraq, leave Iran, Syria and the rest of the middle east alone. Are you not afraid that with the extremists in power in ten yrs time we won't look back and ourselves why we didn't stop it when could? I believe that it will be the end of the world as we know it.

Can someone please give me a link where it says that Ahmedinijad said he would like to wipe Israel off the map?
Even some of you who defend the rights of Iran to posses nukes, like anyone else that condemns them for what they already have, are falling for the propaganda.

I will give you a link saying Iran said no such thing, it's not the first time I read that Ahmedinijad's words were deliberately misconstrued to achieve discontent and hatred toward Iran.

www.iht.com...