The Symphony of Conspiracies and Why It's Important to be "Anti-American" (Op/Ed)

Investigational Fortitude

Originally posted by semperfortis
SO, you just posted the rambling opinions of ATS conspiracy theorists as Proof? Of what could they possibly prove? Threads off of ATS are not exactly a mainstream news article supported by anything. I like this site, but sorry, no proof there.

You might want to look into this further.

Operation Northwoods is the real deal.

A genuine conspiracy documented by the U.S. government as factual.

[edit on 6/16/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by semperfortis
SO, you just posted the rambling opinions of ATS conspiracy theorists as Proof?

It's too bad you missed the Operation Northwoods discussions. That was fun.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.gwu.edu...
abcnews.go.com...


Northwoods Documents

The list of proven conspiracies..

1962 Operation Northwoods

Operation Northwoods or Northwoods was the code name for various proposals for false flag actions, including domestic terror attacks on U.S. soil, proposed in 1962 by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders to generate U.S. public support for military action against Cuba. The proposal was presented in a document entitled "Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba," a draft memorandum pdf) written by the Department of Defense (DoD) and Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group. The draft memo was presented by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13 with one paragraph approved, as a preliminary submission for planning purposes. However, McNamara rejected the proposal. The draft memorandum was declassified in recent years through a Freedom of Information Act request by the National Security Archive.

More info:

en.wikipedia.org...

The actual document:

Operation Northwoods in pdf

Do you need more proof???

Hmmm... That's what I call buried in proof...

If that heaping mound of truth ain't good enough for your wool covered eyes, then you can ask the man himself;
North

Go ahead contact him, I'm sure he would be really appreciative of a younger generation argueing about some thing they know nothing of.

What is with people, argueing for argues sake...it is pitiful.

Ignorance is as ignorance does.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by ADVISOR]

Thanks Guys, Looks really interesting.

I am reading away.

Semper

Hang in there my man... It's pretty hard to swallow but it is, in fact, true...

I, like you, was open minded but had a hard time believing our Government would consider such things as possibilities much less be DUMB enough to put them in writing!

Law/Business school 101, never out ANYTHING you wouldn't want your Mom to read in writing. But there it is for all the world to see.

Springer...

Well, all the government would have to say is that the terrorists somehow managed to get hold of and read the document, and then did those things, just like they were described in the article.

Just one man's opinion on this article.

TheBorg

Now that is some interesting reading!!!!!!

I will with hold comment until I am further "up" on the issue.

I would like to ask one thing though.

Why is it that this op/ed is titled as it is? how can anyone that lives here find they "have" to be anti-American? Being an American goes "WAY" beyond everything that SO talked about in his piece. Way past any conspiracies ever talked about on here. It is getting tears in my eyes when i hear the Anthem and standing for the Marine Hymn.

Can you not question without being Anti? I question and I assure you there is no one that you know that lives, breathes and works the defense of this great Nation more than I do. Does that in anyway make me Anti-American, because I question?

Just some thoughts

Semper

[edit on 6/17/2006 by semperfortis]

[edit on 6/17/2006 by semperfortis]

[edit on 6/17/2006 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by semperfortis
Why is it that this op/ed is titled as it is? how can anyone that lives here find they "have" to be anti-American?

It's editorial sarcasm based on the assumptions of a vocal minority here on ATS, and these lines of the initial post...

If considering these theories makes me "Anti-American", so be it.

If criticism of the holders of public office labels me "Anti-American", do we have a cool logo and where do I get the t-shirts?

If disagreement with the policies of my government is "Anti-American", how much are the club dues and who do I pay? (check, cash, or credit card?)

If hating how the political system of this republic has evolved into a method to divide the people and set them against each other is "Anti-American", it's never been more important to be "Anti-American".

And if enough of us add our "Anti-American" notes to the symphony of conspiracy chaos on the Internet, maybe, some day, a stunning movement will be heard that inspires change... and we can once again be proud to be "Pro-American".

Originally posted by semperfortis

Why is it that this op/ed is titled as it is? how can anyone that lives here find they "have" to be anti-American? Being an American goes "WAY" beyond everything that SO talked about in his piece. Way past any conspiracies ever talked about on here. It is getting tears in my eyes when i hear the Anthem and standing for the Marine Hymn.

Can you not question without being Anti? I question and I assure you there is no one that you know that lives, breathes and works the defense of this great Nation more than I do. Does that in anyway make me Anti-American, because I question?

That's the jist of the Op/Ed for me. The point, as I took it, was that there are many that consider it "anti-American" to question the administration, or vocally disagree with the policies set forward by this administration. So, as I believe it, sometimes it may be worth being considered anti-American if you are standing up for your values, and your beliefs. I hope that explains it a little more, I could see easily how that would be misunderstood.

Thinking about tears in the eyes during the Anthem, never had I had more tears in my eyes than I do these days upon hearing it. Its the one thing that always makes me remember my true identity as an American citizen, and patriot. It can bring us back before many terrible administrations, to remember the country that we love, and realize that it is as of yet, still not lost. I heard the Spanish version of the Anthem a few weeks ago, and it did the same. One thing I have noticed, whether the words are there, whether we can understand the words there, does not really matter. The soul of the piece is still there, and we can feel it.

HURRAH and well said!!!!

I feel exactly the same, well not really about the Spanish version, but that is another thread entirely.

I see you've got your answer, Semper, but I wanted to blab a bit, too.

Currently, we who question the government vocally and often are labeled as "anti-American" by defenders of this particular administration.

If questioning the government (whoever is in power) is "anti-American", then it's important for everyone to be "anti-American". It's important for everyone to question the government, whoever it is. And if all of us here ('conspiracy theorists') have our own concerns and vocalize them, it will sound like a symphony of conspiracies.

I thought the title was very creative. And that's not just sucking up.

By the way, I'm another one who sharply criticized Clinton during his reign. I just wasn't a member here. My husband (who is by no means a Clinton fan) used to give me the strangest looks as I cursed out Clinton's image on TV... I didn't know there was a place like ATS, so my criticism was a solo. So I would probably still be labeled as "anti-American" regardless who is in power, the labelers would just be a different set of people.

The truth is, questioning the government IS a very American thing to do. It's what we're supposed to do. It's just gotten warped lately and the general feeling (by a vocal minority) is that the 'country' and the 'government' are the same thing. So it follows that if you support one, you support the other. And of course, if you criticize one, you criticize the other. Not true. That's a ploy to keep people from vocalizing their disapproval of the government.

Most times, when someone calls me "Anti-American", I defend it saying that I love my country. This thread says, "Ok. If you insist that what I'm doing is anti-American, then I proudly take the label. Because this is the healthiest way to support my country."

Sorry for the ramble-post.

[edit on 17-6-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Not a ramble at all BH, very well said and I would vote you WATS, but I'm out.

You can understand my consternation about the Anti-American thing though, Even though I do understand the subtle undertone as it was intended.

Semper

Great thread.

I feel like I've found a new "Cheers" where the discussion is much. much smarter.

There are so many great quotes from dead presidents and founding fathers about keeping revolutionary spirit and watching for trends toward 'undue influence of the military-industrial complex,' that I'm convinced sketicism and watchfulness is the "American way." ( along with Truth and Justice of course)

When did it become okay for us to exchange our moral leadership of the free world for 'might makes right?'

When did Cognitive Dissonance take over -- allowing us to give lip service to our soldiers "defending our freedoms" by fighting a country that was no threat to us, while quietly allowing those freedoms to be thrown away by our judicial, legislative and executive branches?

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance -- and that doesn't just apply to external threats.

Well, what I take away from this thread is that if you question the government, you're anti-American, and if you support the government, why then you're also anti-American. I suppose if I do neither, I would still somehow be anti-American?

No wonder I spend almost all my time in the Ancient Civs. thread. Nobody accuses me of being "anti-antiquity" there!

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
Well, what I take away from this thread is that if you question the government, you're anti-American, and if you support the government, why then you're also anti-American. I suppose if I do neither, I would still somehow be anti-American?

Unlike your comments in that other thread, on this we can agree.

A truer statement could not be made.

Originally posted by Harte
No wonder I spend almost all my time in the Ancient Civs. thread. Nobody accuses me of being "anti-antiquity" there!

Harte

Give it time.

Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by Harte
Well, what I take away from this thread is that if you question the government, you're anti-American, and if you support the government, why then you're also anti-American. I suppose if I do neither, I would still somehow be anti-American?

Unlike your comments in that other thread, on this we can agree.

A truer statement could not be made.

loam,
I did not mean to offend, it's just that I am extremely suspicious of statistics. I am aware of how statistics are used to sway opinion, as I'm sure you are also. Your post in that other thread constituted a misuse of statistical results, IMO, and I felt that, at least to me, it needed some clarification.

Sorry about that, and sorry that this post is off-topic.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
loam,
I did not mean to offend,

None taken. Well, except the contrarian part....

Originally posted by Harte
it's just that I am extremely suspicious of statistics.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Harte
Your post in that other thread constituted a misuse of statistical results, IMO, and I felt that, at least to me, it needed some clarification.

Based on my misunderstanding...and not on any intent to deceive.

Originally posted by Harte
Sorry about that, and sorry that this post is off-topic.

No apology necessary. I think we understand one another.


[edit on 18-6-2006 by loam]

WYSIWYG like the proposed future aliance of Mexico, Canada and the US. Apologist David Rockefeller is no longer an apologist, he is admitting that he, as well as a few others, want world domination.

Fewer are being fooled?