Walking on Water!

Originally posted by notbuynit
...If you believe them to be tricks then duplicate for all to see, even Houdini believed in this idea. Not to hard to use ones own equiptment to replicate these achievements. Let's see them.
...

Look at the link I posted previously. Chris himself shows how he fakes things. It's an illusion, that's it.

His tricks are easy to explain with few words i beleive the term i'm looking for is TV magic. He probably hires actors uses special effects aand a lot of video editing to pull stuff off the way he does.

maybe i'm wrong...but check out in the start of the video, the girl that swims under him, now look again when she releases her breath and the way the bubbles react at surface level...

then again, what do i know?
either way, great illusion, but if she were on my crew, she would be sooooo fired!!!hehehe.

Well, I don't think its a cable. Its just too steady for him to have been suspended.

The only explanation would be that everyone was in on the trick. But, if you notice, when the camera is looking down at his feet, in my opinion, it doesn't look like hes walking. In fact it looks kinda like hes moving his feet back and forth... like hes dangling. Shot seperately, perhaps?

see this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Originally posted by notbuynit

if you still believe in Magic (illusions being more than illusions) then don't spoil it for yourself. It's no fun knowing all the tricks in the book (Not that I know all the tricks in the book). It's like finding out Santa Clause is not real. I hate to be the one to tell you it's all tricks, but if that's what it takes to end this?

Prove they're not tricks. What you give are accusations and ideas. Unfounded ideas at best. You said it's not real, prove it.

If you believe them to be tricks then duplicate for all to see, even Houdini believed in this idea. Not to hard to use ones own equiptment to replicate these achievements. Let's see them.

Nothing wrong with believing in the unbelievabable to an extent.

Let them have their magic. What's it to you? You take it personal? Prove it otherwise. That's the only way to end this debate.

You are making the accusations, back it up.

Honestly. Stop picking on me, I'm not the only one that said it was an illusion.

1. You should really get your hands on a dictionary. I did not make any accusations. Chris Angel is an Illusionist - that's his job description. I called the video an illusion, because that's what he does for a living. It's not an accusation.
2. You said I must prove they're NOT tricks, and then go on to prove it's not real... Which is it? Must I prove it's a trick or not? Make up your mind.
3. Unfounded ideas? They are "founded" to say the least. If you think I don't know anything about Illusions you are greatly mistaken. If you think I don't know anything about camera tricks... Think again. I was an amateur illusionist for years, and read countless books to entertain friends and family. I'm not even close to guys like David Blaine and Chris Angel, but maybe I would be if I had their budget...
4. You say I must duplicate the illusion? Not difficult to use my "own equipment"? Do you have any idea how much time and money goes into an illusion like that? I have neither of those two resources. Now if you would be willing to pay for the set-up, I'll be more than willing to make time to re-create the illusion. You up for it?

5. So you want me to proof it?
Magicians are a bit reluctant to share their secrets, thus I doubt if you'll find any good material on the Internet. So, we'll have to look above and beyond the Internet.

A. May I suggest you look up "Walking on Water" by Horace Goldin in "The Conjurors' Book of Stage Illusions". You'll probably find the book in a handful of "Magic Shops", i.e. shops for magicians.
B. New Concepts In Illusion Design by William Roy Penix V. His version is called "Fish Can't Lie".
Buy the Book Yourself

Fish Can’t Lie: The magician walks on water! He not only steps through a hoop to prove no wires, but also feeds the fish in the water below him — proving that he is really standing on the water!

I don't have either of these two books in my possession; so don't ask me to copy something out of it.

You want some more proof?

The same trick is done in the music video "Magic" by the Cars. Even another music video had a short/different version..."In Too Deep" by Sum 41. As for the movies, there are so many and just as many methods including digital. Some movies that come to mind are Superman 2, Bruce Almighty, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Popeye (the one with Robin Williams) and many more that have to with religious topics. In these examples though, the method is sometimes very obvious. So one must go to great length with this illusion to disprove the use of those methods.

6. Why do I take it personal? Because I'm being attacked here. I was the first of many members to suggest the possible ways to create the illusion. I was forced to stand up for what I said. If you are naive enough to believe that Chris Angel's magic is something paranormal then there's nothing more I can do.

You may also want to look into these E-books.
David Blaine Secrets Revealed - Source 1
David Blaine Secrets Revealed - Source 2
Collection of Ebooks revealing Blaine's secrets
Sorry to say Santa does not exist.

Now stop bugging me. Go do your homework before you attack me again.

Wait a couple of years.

They couldn't pay each of those audience members nearly enough to keep silent for long. No doubt some will be faced with an offer by a rich, profit making organization to expose this "Chris Angel".

The only way this is fake is if the entire audience and camera crew was in on it. If they weren't, then it is real.

Originally posted by notbuynit

Prove they're not tricks. What you give are accusations and ideas. Unfounded ideas at best. You said it's not real, prove it.

the burden of proof lies with the positive claimant , this is basic logic . in a case like this Mr. angel has to show that his " feat " is not a stage managed trick with careful choreography

how ? – by repeating it , on demand under conditions that he cannot micro manage to his own .

that is a maxim of science – repeatability . what you sir are giving us is faith ,

if he really has “ prenatural abilities “ – this will pose no problem

if he cannot , or refuses – one must ask why

If you believe them to be tricks then duplicate for all to see, even Houdini believed in this idea. Not to hard to use ones own equiptment to replicate these achievements. Let's see them.

that is because Houdini was a showman , he not only replicated the tricks of others -- he made a point of improving on them, to show that he was not only as good as his rivals -- but better .

and yes it is hard to replicate the stunts of others take any WR holding athlete can YOU run 100m in under 10 seconds in accordance with Olympic rules ? , no ? then do you think the the athletes who can possess supernatural powers ??

one hopes you do not

Nothing wrong with believing in the unbelievabable to an extent.

what extent ? where do you draw the line ?

Let them have their magic. What's it to you? You take it personal? Prove it otherwise. That's the only way to end this debate.

Once we have “ given “ them their “magic “ what will they demand next ??

Gemwolf will give his answer , but I don’t take it personally – and whets it to me ? – nothing , I am simply scientifically curious – I want to know how it is done – that is all

Actually the only way to end this debate is to analyze the claim under controlled conditions – not claimant stage management

If he can ACTUALLY perform this feat under critical scrutiny , then and only then will a new theory have to be formulated to explain why , then tested or falsified

That’s how science works .

You are making the accusations, back it up.

you are making claims , back them up

here is the bottom line :

the rational approach is that walking on water is theoretically impossible , given our understanding of such sciences as :

Mass , Gravity , Displacement , Surface tension , Buoyancy etc etc

so someone who can be seen to be walking on water must be either cheating or possess prenatural talents .

if he really does possess prenatural talents , then the rationalist must ask , what are they – can he alter his mass ?? defy gravity ? control the physical properties of a fluid ? , what ?

tricks with hoops are just that – I could “ pass “ a hoop through a “solid “object a the age of 12 thanks to some coaching by my grandfather .

it was a trick – I could only do it with his “ magic “ hoops , I couldn’t do it with my mothers bracelets

that is the difference – could Mr. angel accept an invitation to come to my home town and “ walk on water “ in a swimming pool of my choice that he has no prior access to

I doubt it , and so do many other here , that is why we are skeptical :

Because even in Mr. angels stage managed , choreographed and edited film clip , shot under conditions he controlled – there are STILL flaws that suggest the presence of hidden props and the editing / framing is highly selective

Even the choreography looks stilted and forced at times , begging the question what are we prevented from seeing ??

The rational answer is “ props “

APE OUT

Lets keep it simple here. If the man can walk on water and levitate. Why not combine the two??? what's the point of walking on water if you're still getting wet? And the crowds reaction was an obvious fake one.

Notice how after he took of his shoes and continue to walk in the water, the leg of his jeans sags everytime he step up, but if you look carefully when his feet is in the water the bottom end of his jean does not sag underwater He is clearly stepping on something else... As for the other guy floating on water, he is probably strap into some floaters on his ankle or something...

[edit on 13-6-2006 by IspyU]

The lead singer from the cars did this several years ago in one of there videos.

Jay!:

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Did you ever notice how he ALWAYS turns his back on the people before he "levitates"? It has to do with how he's standing. He goes up on his toes or soemthing like that. He's not really levitating, but the way he's standing there and the angle he's at to the people, you can't see the front of his feet, so it LOOKS like he's levitating.

It is not the angle that he is standing at ... he has magnets in each of his shows to hold them together and there is a slit in his BLACK pants ... taht he can slide his leg out of ... and his shoes wil still be together right beside each other almost as if he hadn't taken his leg outta his pants then with his back to the people he has learned how to crouch and make it look as if he is Levitating in reality he is just ... balancing on one leg ... Heck of an illusion .. I saw it posted here somewhere then followed the link. Anyways ... GL with your walking on water .... There had to be some sort of stilts involded everytime he would pick his feet up ... There had to been something shoot to the bottom of the pool ... and then retract ... Come on guys use your imaginations ... What happened to us !?????????????

Originally posted by IspyU
Notice how after he took of his shoes and continue to walk in the water, the leg of his jeans sags everytime he step up, but if you look carefully when his feet is in the water the bottom end of his jean does not sag underwater

He is clearly stepping on something else... As for the other guy floating on water, he is probably strap into some floaters on his ankle or something...

[edit on 13-6-2006 by IspyU]

If you really looked CLEARLY there were stilts coming down from the back of his pants leg ... That is really what you were noticing .... I mean no doubt it takes great and I mean absolutely FLAWLESSS Balance to pull this off .. But ..he did ... FLAWLESSLY ! Although he did almost lose his balance at one point when the woman was swimming so closely to him.

You know I cam eto this site because I thought there was some information that would be interesting to ponder upon. But then I see how you guys act ... When someone performs something really entertaining in front of you. Most of you guys *fall* all over yourselves with OMG ... he is so powerful and he can levitate and this and that .... When your imaginations what should keep you Above the rest ... is so far away from where it should be ... ... I give you this challenge .. give me ANY CHALLENGE !!!!!!!! ANY CHALLENGE ..... and give me enough money ... Or really I guess techinicaly I will explain how you could do it with enough money ... OR APPEAR TO BE DOING IT and that is all that really matters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIKE METALLICA SAID ... AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




(Mod edit: Crude reference removed. Profanity and sexual references are prohibited on ATS. Please do not insult your fellow ATSers by lecturing us with your mistaken assumptions about what we think. We are not the topic of this thread. If you expect a higher quality of content on ATS, feel free to help by contributing some yourself. Also, please try to go easy on the caps. --Majic)


[edit on 6/13/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
You know I cam eto this site because I thought there was some information that would be interesting to ponder upon. But then I see how you guys act ... When someone performs something really entertaining in front of you. Most of you guys jizz all over yourselves with OMG ... he is so powerful and he can levitate and this and that ....

I think it's well-documented on here that 'most' posters on ATS don't freak out at Chris Angel and come to believe that he's some sort of supernatural freak. There are only a few here who even consider that he is doing 'real' magic.

As stated before, he is an self-confessed illusionist and mostly everyone here knows it.

Most ?? hmm lets conduct a straw poll

Based on responses to this thread , the following members :

Volatile
Zaphod58
Gemwolf
Grailkeeper
Jebussaves
Yarium
Geek101
Firebat
Nataylor
Sparkie the wondersnail
Joecool280
Imbalanced
Velvetsplash
2manyquestions
Dalair the great
Arcane demesne
The_doctor
Frank_rizzo
Kacen
Warpig
Ispyu

Plus , myself of course

Have all IMHO questioned the veracity of mr angels claim to “ walk on water “

So who exactly are this “ many “ , you claim are gullible fawns ?? it seems to me that skepticism is in an overwhelming majority with regard to this particular claim

APE OUT

I for one hate being misrepresented or being falsely labeled , I doubt other members do either .

If you want to question the beliefs and motives of members , at least accuractly portray those beliefs .

Originally posted by promomagfrom what I've seen this guy does some CRAZY stuff up close and personal. Now I know how he does the whole levitation thing but some of the things for the life of me I can't figure it out.

Notice how far he is lifting his feet and how carefully he is putting them down? Something is in the water already, Maybe some kind of clear flotation device, something like a plastic tube that will displace enough water to hold up his weight one foot at a time. That way he can shake off his shoes for further "proof". Notice he shakes them off to the side? It is a set up.

End of mystery

[edit on 13-6-2006 by curiousity]

You are right he is shaking his leg to appear to be doing something else but where are his hands at ???? HIS HANDS ARE THE KEY TO EVERYONE OF HIS TRICKS ... Accept the saw trick ... that was an expensive table ...... .... And really it wasn't all that expensive .. Just took time to build it to the right specs so he could scoot up ... and tuck his legs behind himself.

I've been a magician for about 4 years now. I'll just say this, Criss Angel's only super power is his awesome choice in camera men, and hilarious choice in "spectators". Certainly not his music or choice in wardrobe, heh.

All of his illusions tend to have 3 or 4 or (at tops) 10 "spectators" constantly yelling and hollering things like "amazingggg!".

and then a camera starts flipping around while interviewing some shocked bystander who was never in the shot.

Originally posted by gnosis
I've been a magician for about 4 years now. I'll just say this, Criss Angel's only super power is his awesome choice in camera men, and hilarious choice in "spectators". Certainly not his music or choice in wardrobe, heh.

All of his illusions tend to have 3 or 4 or (at tops) 10 "spectators" constantly yelling and hollering things like "amazingggg!".

and then a camera starts flipping around while interviewing some shocked bystander who was never in the shot.

You are OH so wrong ....

If you are a magician which I HIGHLY DOUBT ... You have not one sinlge clue to what you are talking about. Every person they interview is correct. He does not use fake people to cover up for him. These are rearlly illusions. If you see something done everyday ... something so simple ... someone goes and does that simple thing different but it is 10 times more simple than what you are used to when you go to do it the next day you are still going to use "Your Method" Instead of switching to the other method which is simpler. Because to you and everyone else that is " Under Control" of the ALLUSIONS that you have been raised with that your parents have instilled in to you are not ready for change. You can't see past then end of your nose much less outside the BOX.




(Mod note: Please refrain from insulting your fellow members as you have in this post. As noted above, posting what you think about other members is off-topic and in this case violates the terms you must honor to continue your membership here. Please review the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use carefully, particularly Item 2. Further insults may result in disciplinary action. Please feel free to U2U me or any staff member at any time if you have any questions about ATS policy. --Majic)

[edit on 6/13/2006 by Majic]