Army Officer Refuses To Go To War

In recent times, controversey is sparking wild about whether the Iraq war is legal or not. It seems to have hit a new height when Lt. Ehren Watada publically refused to participate in the Iraq war. He said that he would become a "party to war crimes" and refused to take part in it. He denounces the slaughter of Iraqi citizens and denounces the actions of the Army.



I have two questions. First do you think that he is right in doing this? I am for and against his actions personally. I think it is good that he express his feelings. I think its bad the way he is doing it. If he cannot "drop out" of the army per say thats one thing. If he wants to leave after what hes seen I personally think that he should be aloud. I don't think that while he's in the army he should refuse orders.

If he wants to leave the army fine, I don't want people who don't want to fight to have to fight. The way he is doing it is just wrong to me though. I support his cause, but not the actions he took to display them.

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Sorry I did yours again grim. I checked to see if it had been done, but I guess I forgot to refresh the page.

I'm with you though. I'm glad he's actually taking a stand up against big brother. But the way in which he's doing it was a bad idea. He does have every right in doing this though, as guaranteed by what's left of the 1st amendment.

What ever happened to the Enlistment Oath

I, ___________________________________, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Apparently the words I put in bold no longer mean anything to some :shk:

That would be the oath enlisted personnel take.

There is a different oath commissioned officers take.

I, [insert name here], do solemnly swear, (or affirm), that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. (Note that the last line is not required to be said if the speaker has a personal or moral objection)

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Do you think that he is right in doing this?

No. I agree with you on this one.

Originally posted by shots
Enlistment Oath

I, ___________________________________, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend
the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;
and that I will obey the orders of
the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me,
according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Fixed it for you Shots, now it reads correctly and even points out exactly who the Constitution should be protected from.

Id do the same, I wouldn't care if the PM/president personally gave me the orders. If I didn't agree with it, I wouldn't do it but then again, Id never join the army precisely for that reason.

Originally posted by Skibum
That would be the oath enlisted personnel take.

OK so there is a different oath yet that does not mean that they do not have to obey the orders of the president and officers above them, does it?

I think joining a military means you are going to kill, he knew this before he joined up.

Originally posted by shots
OK so there is a different oath yet that does not mean that they do not have to obey the orders of the president and officers above them, does it?

Guy, seriously, read the article...

First Lt. Ehren Watada's supporters -- including clergy and a military family group -- said he is the first commissioned officer to publicly refuse to serve in Iraq and risked being court-martialed.

He risking a court-martial to stand up for what he believs is right, so, to answer the obvious to your question, yes, he is supposed to obey orders. Yet, he feels that the president's orders should not be followed to commit, what he feels, is a war crime.

this kind of incident is certainly not new. Anyone old enough to recall Vietnam will possibly remember that this kind of thingh appened on a regular basis after the '68 Tet Offensive.

Watada will not see jail time. He will, however, be dishonorably discharged. This'll be offset by the book deal and speaking fees he gets as a civilian. Conscience comes iwth a high price. I know this from experience.

If you interpret the high officials as the threat to the constitution how do you go about it then? I feel this may become an issue in the future for all those in the army and such.

*sigh*

There's no war in Iraq anymore. It's just mostly patrolling, counter-insurgency and pacification operations for the US troops and Iraqi Security/police forces.

Unfortunately the media keep calling it "war" and people, including the military, just lap it up conveniently.

war on terror is being fought in iraq. its no doubt a war, and will continue to be one. We aren't winning this war on terror. We may have won the war on iraq (saddam) but not the war on terror by a long shot.

Watada can apply for conscientious objector status.

Here is a link on what a conscientious objector is and reason why someone would becoem one.

As far as I know one can apply for CO status, but it's not guarenteed to be approved. There are people who have been denied it. If he is ordered to go, but refuses and he doesn't have CO status then yes he could be court martialed. If he is I wish him lucked cause it's not going to be pretty.

I don't know what kind of obligation this young man is committed to. It may be the Army paid for his education or something and he agreed to serve a particular amount of time in return. If he is under no such obligation, why didn't he just renounce his commission and leave the Army? While I respect the man's willinginess to stand up for his beliefs it seems to me he had options available other than making a public political statement.

I've posted my feelings on Iraq and so there should'n't be any questions on where I stand. We shouldn't be there. With that said he should be taken out back after courts martial and shot.

In the least put a yellow stripe down his back. He is an officer sworn to uphold orders given by the cac. His duty is to complete missions handed him and bring our boys home. Because of his " stand", they'll have him run for congress someday and ofcourse President.

Another example of neolib influence. He would send his men to do something he didn't have the guts to do himself. Where was my choice on Bosnia or Somalia? Where were you hypocrites? I don't remember any protests when my best friend was being killed in Mogadishu. Where were you? Bombing folks in Bosnia?You weren't told to dissent, that's where you were. Whether he agrees or not. Coward.

An officer's duty is his men. What a message this coward has sent to those who have to go. Whether or not he goes, his men will, flash for you geniuses. Wet yourselves over his cowardice. He'd make a great leader for your son. He really would.

His honor, which is no longer in tact is what has kept you free. Thank God he is a very small rarity.

He joined the army, after we where already in war what did he expect. This guys a coward! Your not standing up to big brother when you join the army out of free will.

I don't know why he's so concerned, those fobbits and the rest of the officers never go into indian country a vast majority anyway.

Nice way for him to make a stand too, I mean, now that he won't go someone that has no choice has to go in his place, that's nice.

Edited to add-> Funny how these guys go to college on our dime collect paychecks that you folks pay for, and they don't mind being in the army, except of course untill their called up to go overseas.

[edit on 8-6-2006 by WithoutEqual]

In some small way, I can relate to this man's dilema. I was once a civil servant, and I was told to do something that was most definitely off limits. I disagreed with that order very much. If I had complied, and been caught, it would have meant jail time and a felony conviction on my record.

If Mr. Watada had resigned and renounced, he'd still be in the same boat. No retirement. Military tradition says that he should've pulled the plug before opening his mouth. I think he's burning his bridges in public because its the best way for him to have his say and avoid being in the poor house.

After I resignee, I became an author. I'm lucky. I have enjoyed some success. Most people like me do not. Mr. Watada has a forum for his grievances that I did not. Even so, his fame will not last long. Any social stigma will follow him for the rst of his life.