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Surely only the foolish, the gullible or those with bible-addled brains would deny that the basic principles of Evolution are correct.
On the one hand we have well over a hundred years of scientific study on a global basis that supports Evolution.
On the other we have a load of money-grasping reactionary 'men of god' (with big houses) who've made something up as the proven theory upsets the fairy-story they use to get more money & power from the weak and foolish.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster / Pastafarianism is, to me, at least as valid as this 'intelligent design' nonsense.
Originally posted by Strangerous
No I'm not joking, FSM has just as much validity as ID (but it's less profitable). Yes FSM is a political device but so is ID.
Originally posted by zenlover28
Rren..my point was regarding 'specified complexity' in general. It is a hogwash argument to me (whether or not you think I know anything about ID or not). It can not be proven as there is no way to prove it. ID supporters claim that this is the 'smoking gun' to debunk theory of evolution, however there is no way to prove the ID claim of 'specified complexity' being a product of design.
There's only one known source for producing actual specified complexity, and that's intelligence. In every case where we know the causal history responsible for an instance of specified complexity, an intelligent agent was involved. Most human artifacts, from Shakespearean sonnets to Dürer woodcuts to Cray supercomputers, are specified and complex. For a signal from outer space to convince astronomers that extraterrestrial life is real, it too will have to be complex and specified, thus indicating that the extraterrestrial is not only alive but also intelligent (hence the search for extraterrestrial intelligence-SETI).
arn.org
A group of faculty and students in the university's media program left a computer in the monkey enclosure at Paignton Zoo in southwest England, home to six Sulawesi crested macaques. Then, they waited.
At first, said researcher Mike Phillips, “the lead male got a stone and started bashing the hell out of it.
“Another thing they were interested in was in defecating and urinating all over the keyboard,” added Phillips, who runs the university's Institute of Digital Arts and Technologies.
Eventually, monkeys Elmo, Gum, Heather, Holly, Mistletoe and Rowan produced five pages of text, composed primarily of the letter S. Later, the letters A, J, L and M crept in — not quite literature.
Want to get more in depth or stop there?
Originally posted by Rren
FYI recent experiments went, er, um poorly.
arn.org
A group of faculty and students in the university's media program left a computer in the monkey enclosure at Paignton Zoo in southwest England, home to six Sulawesi crested macaques. Then, they waited.
At first, said researcher Mike Phillips, “the lead male got a stone and started bashing the hell out of it.
“Another thing they were interested in was in defecating and urinating all over the keyboard,” added Phillips, who runs the university's Institute of Digital Arts and Technologies.
Eventually, monkeys Elmo, Gum, Heather, Holly, Mistletoe and Rowan produced five pages of text, composed primarily of the letter S. Later, the letters A, J, L and M crept in — not quite literature.
Guess monkeys are no better at writing Shakespeare that evolutionary algorithms are at creating life (OOL.) Unless evolution creates evolution, then I stand corrected.
Originally posted by mattison0922
Originally posted by Strangerous
No I'm not joking, FSM has just as much validity as ID (but it's less profitable). Yes FSM is a political device but so is ID.
Well, it took it a little longer this time, we managed to get almost three pages of semi-reasonable comments until this thread devolved to total shlock.
Perhaps we're not scraping the exact bottom of the barrel here in the O & C forum at ATS, but we're still pretty damn close. With comments like this it should just be a matter of time before the O & C forum is back at the bottom of the barrel. If we could get Produkt to post here, we'd be there for sure. Only a matter of time I'm sure.
No I'm not joking, FSM has just as much validity as ID (but it's less profitable). Yes FSM is a political device but so is ID.
How did life start? With a bit of DNA blown in by a comet and via the evolution of millions of species over millions of years diversity of species occured. Quite simple really.
If it wasn't that way are you seriously suggesting that 'God' (or the FSM) created all these fossils and now-extinct species simply to provide a 'back story' to his creation? If there is a 'God' why would he bother going to all that trouble.
No-one has ever invaded a country, dropped bombs, or killed people because of their belief in evolution, on the other hand.......
Originally posted by ProjectX1986
Actually there is a huge gap of missing information in the evolutionary chain if we did come from monkey‘s, any one could tell you that, even a elementary science teacher.
Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
No I'm not joking, FSM has just as much validity as ID (but it's less profitable). Yes FSM is a political device but so is ID.
Really I always thought that ID was a way that people with religious believes describe the beginning of the universe scientifically .
How did life start? With a bit of DNA blown in by a comet and via the evolution of millions of species over millions of years diversity of species occured. Quite simple really.
How did this DNA come into being with the assistance of God?
If it wasn't that way are you seriously suggesting that 'God' (or the FSM) created all these fossils and now-extinct species simply to provide a 'back story' to his creation? If there is a 'God' why would he bother going to all that trouble.
who said that I don't believe the fossil record? But now that you have broached this topic can you tell me a species can change from one to another. Where does the new information for the DNA come from? It's my believe that DNA copies and only mixes the information handed down to it.
No-one has ever invaded a country, dropped bombs, or killed people because of their belief in evolution, on the other hand.......
...ToE gave us the holocaust because Hitler believed that the German people were more evolved than others.
Yeah really do you have the numbers to back this up?
ID is what SOME religious people believe, many thinking people are religious but don't subscribe to ID
Who says the DNA came from 'God'? Why not from another source completely unrelated to Earth-based fairy stories?
I never said that I don't believe in evolution, I've just come to the conclusion that it is not possible with out a God.
I never said a species changes from one to another - species evolve, mutate and cross-breed to create new ones. How does ID explain the vast array of dog species which have evolved from the wolf/dingo ancestor in realitvely recent times?
You are the one that implied that nothing bad came about from ToE., I showed you that something vary bad came from it.
Hitler's beliefs were based on many things including a misapplication of evolutionary theory to fit his warped view, other elements (EG Teutonic myths, religion etc) were woven in to create his wierd & bizarre theories
Originally posted by Strangerous
I'm sorry?
My opinions are 'schlock'? Why exactly? Because you don't agree with me?
If you don't want to hear opposing views then why come on here?
Surely there's a www.comfortableheoriesforthegullibeandstupid.com out there somewhere?
Ouch not even a honorable mention? Mattison I'm hurt.
and me and hopefully Rren will 'discuss' it with you.
Originally posted by Strangerous
No I'm not joking, FSM has just as much validity as ID (but it's less profitable). Yes FSM is a political device but so is ID.
How did life start? With a bit of DNA blown in by a comet
and via the evolution of millions of species over millions of years diversity of species occured. Quite simple really.
If it wasn't that way are you seriously suggesting that 'God' (or the FSM) created all these fossils and now-extinct species simply to provide a 'back story' to his creation? If there is a 'God' why would he bother going to all that trouble.
ID is just a comfortable theory perpetuated by those with a financial interest in hoodwinking the gullible, it has no basis in fact so it's just an opinion with financial and media resources behind it.
No-one has ever invaded a country, dropped bombs, or killed people because of their belief in evolution, on the other hand.......
Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
Ouch not even a honorable mention? Mattison I'm hurt.
and me and hopefully Rren will 'discuss' it with you.
Originally posted by Strangerous
How does ID explain the vast array of dog species which have evolved from the wolf/dingo ancestor in realitvely recent times?
Hitler's beliefs were based on many things including a misapplication of evolutionary theory to fit his warped view
Originally posted by Rren
CSI is an issue for OOL not 'evolution' depending on where you draw your abiogenesis line...
Here's an essay from Dembski ('99) that should help you understand what's being discussed/argued over - Explaining Specified Complexity
If your content calling these things an appearance or illusion then nothing I could say or argue would change that. You did say, " there is no way to prove [CSI is designed]" so apparently you've already figured it out.
Hook a brotha' up... don't hold back, we've got with some sort of genetically engineered cotton plants for Pete's sake! If you've already debunked this, give it up, I got better things to do.
I suppose you're an advocate of Infinite Monkey Theorem or something similar then eh? Giving a long enough timeline anything (read: everything) can (read: will) happen. Of course the universe is only about 14.5byo, but we'll just pretend it's infinte.
Guess monkeys are no better at writing Shakespeare that evolutionary algorithms are at creating life (OOL.) Unless evolution creates evolution, then I stand corrected.
You haven't got your toes wet yet (no assumptions wrt your knowledge of ID) why you holding back? Sock it to me.