Project Serpo blown wide open - exclusive expose

Zep,
How can you say the writing styles were the same? All of the emails to Victor were edited by him. So there is really no way to tell for sure. Also, I thought it was pretty obvious that the writing styles DID change after post 9/10/11? Isn't that what was being discussed just a few pages ago?

Are you not even willing to accept that plausible deniability is POSSIBLY an option? Or are you just dead set on the viral marketing campaign, to sell NYT best-seller Efd? Or now that the book is ranked a whopping 64,039 in sales, on Amazon. The marketing campaign just doesn't make sense, IMO.

Originally posted by shmush
Zep,
How can you say the writing styles were the same? All of the emails to Victor were edited by him. So there is really no way to tell for sure. Also, I thought it was pretty obvious that the writing styles DID change after post 9/10/11? Isn't that what was being discussed just a few pages ago?

Hi Shmush,
Don't forget we have seen the original emails, free from any editing by Victor. If you search through OM, you will see that we caught Victor trying to protect the fact that he knew his Anonymous was Rick Doty. We'd noticed that the original Anonymous liked to use double-spaces after a period, so we asked Victor if his unedited emails from Anonymous were the same. Because we had the originals, we knew they were - we just wanted to know what Victor would say He almost triumphantly declared there were no double-spaces in those emails. Hmm, I wonder why he lied?

From all of my discussions with Bill concerning the data he was receiving from Doty, along with the things Doty was telling him, it became pretty obvious pretty quickly what was going on. Based on everything we have seen and everything that has been reported, no - we are not willing to accept that plausible deniability is an option.

Cheers,
Zep

I guess I didn't realize that you had the original emails with all of the stuff that's on the "info releases". I've never seen those original emails, I have seen the one from wizardofzin that are posted on your website. If I missed them, please point me in the right direction.

Does double spaces after a period mean the writing styles were the same? I use 2 spaces after periods. I guess I just need a little more clarification on why the styles were the same. If Anon signed his name Anon...., I'd be suspicious of Springer, or in Anon used "pfft", I'd be suspicious of Shawnna, or if anon used run-on sentences incessantly, I'd be suspicious of Ysensa. Other than something obvious, I would find it really hard to definitely say I can tell your writing style, from Jake's.

Any clarifications would be great.

Thanks,
Shmush

Everybody has a certain style to their writing, they can only fake it so long and will fall back to habits. Many will begin to make their post very short to try keeping us from locking on to them.

I just wonder if Victor cleaning up the releases was the whole purpose of trying to hide the writing style that Zep pointed out. I have never seen the originals either so I have nothing to compare them to.

Bill Ryan later on stated Anon didn't want them to be edited any longer, but we all know the author or authors appeared to change also. Zep should have a good idea if those came from the same author as the Victor releases, or did they take on a complete change. In other words if it was Doty at the beginning with Victor, was it still Doty in the later releases with Bill?

Funny thing is, I believe (in) Serpo.

The way I saw it from the outside is interesting. Here comes a guy (Bill) that wants to 'share' "information" about a classified government project that sent people to a far away planet to interact with alien colleagues.

[I WANT TO BELIEVE]

It's weird. Everyone attempted to discredit Bill. Being the internet, an open forum, and quite simply a place where viewpoints are like the excretory openings that us hominids have, I truly understand the reactions of the masses. Many, in fact seemed to believe and want to believe, while just as many, possibly, wanted to do nothing other than to discredit Serpo and to further state that the lack of substantive information was the dead ringer for a hoax.

Riddle me This Batman: Why did so many higher powers on ATS get into the fray? Why did they feel the need to control the situation? Why were so many controls placed on the thread and information which in effect brought the continuum of converstation to a dead standstill?

I could barely keep up on the thousands of posts and he-said, she-said, they-said -- let alone try to figure out why in the heck the ATS upper-ups were herding this thing to shut-down land.

[/I WANT TO BELIEVE]

It's funny. I've personally talked with Bill Ryan, who seems like a normal individual. But the overwhelming feeling I get is that ATS wants none of the Serpo issue and strives to discredit, discontinue -- and where that failed -- completely control every aspect of Serpo on ATS. Even register a domain name to counter-dis-dis-info the information attempts? For what reason?

ATS is definitely a for-profit site, no? Out of respect, I'll not even try to speculate on what they take in a month -- but the logic seems faulty: with such a large draw on things Serpo-esque, why shut down the movement? I would think embracing and extending the dialogue with a fair and balanced approach would have netted more attraction, attention and thusly revenue from the masses.

My arguement has been, and always was -- give the man (Bill) enough stage and enough rope to hang himself. Succeed or fail, ATS would have benefitted from the traffic, interaction and information discussion on the topic. It just doesn't make any sense.

Is Bill running a for profit website? I don't believe so.

Is there a video game that has benefitted from this release? A year later, nothing.

Is there a hidden alterior motive? Well, hell yes, that's what these boards are for -- discussing and ripping apart the issues.

But the issues must continue as long as the discussion is lively and informative. When did it become necessary to shut it down?


To this day, I believe that the basis for Serpo is probable, if not even plausible. But ATS, for whatever reason, fails to allow the discussion to continue. And in all of this, what concrete evidence was presented to completely discredit and prove the presumed hoax status of the Serpo issue?


EPILOGUE:

To this day -- why is Serpo discussed (still) with such enthusiasm? Why not ressurect the Serpo thread? Invite Bill back. Reinstate the deleted posts. Recreate the timeline? Have a sub-domain (serpo.abovetopsecret.com)? Wouldn't this generate more revenue? Wouldn't we all have a chance to really investigate the issues at hand?

Riddle me Batman.

[edit on 13-11-2006 by NextLevel]

Discredit Card

Originally posted by NextLevel
It's weird. Everyone attempted to discredit Bill.

Actually, the owners of ATS went out of their way to give him a platform for sharing his story.

If you look back at the very beginning, they did podcasts about him and gave him an extraordinary amount of promotion -- not to discredit him but to get the Serpo story out.

I think you might want to take a closer look at the "early days", because I remember quite well when Serpo turned sour, and it was long after the story broke here.



Edit to add: I've said it so many times I sound like a broken record, but what made Serpo turn sour was when Mr. Ryan's story began to unravel and it became clear that "Anonymous" was changing the Serpo story based on what was being posted on ATS -- and Bill Ryan went along with it like it was nothing.

When ATSers pointed out several glaring flaws in the Serpo narrative, "Anonymous" started releasing "clarifications" to such things as the composition, identity and head count of the crew. At that point it became clear that whoever was pushing Serpo was using ATS as a focus group to refine the story.

For some odd reason, the owners of ATS didn't want to be parties to a hoax, so they "shut down" Serpo on ATS. There were also some very problematic developments with Bill Ryan's story, who, when confronted with them, chose to slander ATS and leave rather than account for serious discrepancies with his own role in Serpo.

The last straw was the drawings -- offered in lieu of photographs which were promised and never delivered. All this is chronicled in the "Serpo monster thread", and tedious though it is, it's all in there for those with enough time on their hands to look into it.

All this suspicion directed toward ATS seems to conveniently overlook all the other "players" in the story -- a classic misdirection tactic.

Why not ask those who claim ATS "suppressed" Serpo to do what they promised in the first place: deliver the damn evidence!

If they really wanted to disclose alien contact, they would have freakin' done it by now. Why haven't they?

BECAUSE THEY CAN'T! THEY DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE! THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE FOR SERPO.

Please forgive my stridency, but it should be obvious. If you had proof of extraterrestrial contact, what would you do?

Hide it? Lie about it? If so, then you would be lower than dirt.

All that would be necessary to prove Serpo true would be to deliver the evidence. No excuses, just do it.

But no, we get a fourth-rate soap opera instead. Screw that. :shk:

Serpo: Put Up Or Shut Up.

That's my opinion, anyway.



[edit on 11/13/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by Majic
Discredit Card

Originally posted by NextLevel
It's weird. Everyone attempted to discredit Bill.

Actually, the owners of ATS went out of their way to give him a platform for sharing his story.

If you look back at the very beginning, they did podcasts about him and gave him an extraordinary amount of promotion -- not to discredit him but to get the Serpo story out.

I think you might want to take a closer look at the "early days", because I remember quite well when Serpo turned sour, and it was long after the story broke here.

Ok. Granted. I really don't know 100% of the story, so I should probably get my own interpretation straight before I launch a big "Why" campaign. Sorry for that.

But I remain -- to this day -- steadfast that the Sheriff(s) allowed the deputy(ies) too much leeway and power in controlling the situation.

I really would have liked to see Bill grasping for something to hold on to in those final days -- but we really will never know. I still read alot on his site, but only in the science fiction 'what if' sense. It's too far separated to really put back together again.

My only ire is towards the ATS site and operators who seemed (in my opinion) in the latter days to quickly and rapidly sweep this under the rug, so to speak. And again, my opinions are just that.

Flame on.

The Rest Of The Story

Originally posted by NextLevel
Ok. Granted. I really don't know 100% of the story, so I should probably get my own interpretation straight before I launch a big "Why" campaign. Sorry for that.

Originally posted by NextLevel
My only ire is towards the ATS site and operators who seemed (in my opinion) in the latter days to quickly and rapidly sweep this under the rug, so to speak. And again, my opinions are just that.

No flames, just an observation.

You don't know 100% of the story, yet your "ire" is aroused and you are ready to point fingers.

What you're saying is that you don't need to know all the facts to assign blame. That says a lot, don't you think?

My advice: before pointing fingers, study the matter in depth. Start here, if you like:

Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

See for yourself. Then google for serpo and look at what other sites have to say.

That's right, I -- a member of the ATS senior staff -- recommend that you look at what everyone else has to say about Serpo. We're not suppressing anything.

Serpo fans, hoaxers and skeptics are free to post whatever they want on the Internet, and -- from one ATSer to another -- I want you to get information from as many sources as possible. The ATS owners have done what they thought best, but there is no "official" ATS "party line" for Serpo!

ATSers are, have been and always will be more than welcome to form their own opinions on Serpo and anything else. We don't dictate opinions here.

After you've taken some time to look into Serpo in greater depth, we'll still be here.

And if you think ATS is trying to cover it up, then we are not worthy of your membership, and I recommend one or more of the many other fine forums out there which cover "alternative" topics.

I love ATS. I practically live here. If I had so much as an inkling that the owners of this website were crooked or dishonest, I would dig into it like you wouldn't believe. And indeed, as a supermod, I have access to all sorts of confidential ATS information, including everything that was discussed in Cosmic during the Serpo drama.

And what have I found? The truth.

The Amigos are not the bad guys here.

I can't expect you to take my word for it, but I know for a fact it's true.

There are far more lies surrounding Serpo than facts, but I urge you to look honestly at what has happened, get as much data as you can from as many different sources as possible and decide for yourself.

Do this, and I am confident that the truth will become apparent to you as well.

Majic,

How can you say for CERTAIN it is completely false?

Rick Doty claims he didn't write it...now unless he has confided in you personally, wouldn't you say you are assuming it is completely false? Someone whos job it was at some point in his career to dis-inform people, wouldn't he be more careful than to just send emails from his own computer? There is no logic in him doing it that way.

If you know who wrote this "hoax", please by all means tell me...tell everyone. Or at least give me the logic behind how this whole fiasco came about.

I won't deny my own misgivings on whether or not it is a true story or not, or whether it is complete dis-info, but I just don't see the Doty connection to all of this.

Absolute Uncertainty

Originally posted by shmush
How can you say for CERTAIN it is completely false?

I can't. :shk:

I can only say that I'm convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that Serpo is a hoax -- and being a skeptic, I must admit that I could be wrong about that, of course.

But I've spent way too much time looking at everything presented, and the honest best determination I can give is that not only is Serpo a hoax, but a painfully obvious hoax.

If there's any truth hidden in Serpo, it would be best if those in possession of it started over fresh. The fact that no photographs have been produced suggests gross dishonesty on the part of "Anonymous", because they were promised. Without them the story is meaningless.

As for the question of whether an alien/human exchange program of that kind took place, I simply don't know. I don't have enough information to make a decision on that.

Personally, I am reasonably sure that we are not alone in this universe. In fact, I think it takes tremendous vanity to assume that we are the only intelligent life in light of what we already know about how unimaginably vast and marvelous the universe is.

And then there are my own meditations which suggest the same -- though I must concede that such thoughts may be nothing more than the products of my imagination (which, on the bright side, would suggest I am imaginative to the point of brilliance).

So for me it's not necessarily a question of whether extraterrestrial life exists. I'm pretty sure it does.

But have extraterrestrial beings come here? I think it's quite possible, perhaps even likely, but "smoking guns" -- at least of a kind we could understand as such -- remain elusive.

Was there some sort of exchange program between the U.S. government and an alien race? Again, I don't know.

But before assuming there was such a program, I would need some convincing evidence, and the Project Serpo story has quite consistently failed to deliver any conclusive evidence.

It's just smoke and mirrors, and that's not good enough.

Can solid evidence be found of alien contact with earth? If such a thing has happened, I believe it is possible to find it.

But only through the rather mundane process of looking for it, not through overhyped carnival sideshows like Serpo.

If we are willing to accept lies and sensationalism as substitutes for the truth, we don't deserve to know the truth.

That's my opinion, anyway. If people want to deceive themselves, it's their right.




[edit on 11/13/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by shmush
Majic,

How can you say for CERTAIN it is completely false?

Rick Doty claims he didn't write it...now unless he has confided in you personally, wouldn't you say you are assuming it is completely false? Someone whos job it was at some point in his career to dis-inform people, wouldn't he be more careful than to just send emails from his own computer? There is no logic in him doing it that way.

If you know who wrote this "hoax", please by all means tell me...tell everyone. Or at least give me the logic behind how this whole fiasco came about.

I won't deny my own misgivings on whether or not it is a true story or not, or whether it is complete dis-info, but I just don't see the Doty connection to all of this.

excempt from disclosure, did in fact, just come out. BR did refer, to excempt more than once, saying it was a fantastic book, though he said it wasn't a marketing ploy. Rick Doty, is suffering from "the boy who cried wolf syndrome" his radical quirks are only just to be criticised.

its also been, told again and again, that doty was in contact with email and admissions to boot, with BR,VM and whoever else is down with that drama, also, lets not forget the coast to coast interview.

One thing that has bothered me about Doty is the fact that during the time Centrist and cohorts were duping Victor into believing Centrist was anonymous, Doty carries on as if nothing is wrong. If Doty was the actual anonymous, wouldn't he have tipped off Victor somehow.

"Victor, we have been infiltrated. I'm the real anonymous. Check IPs. Cease communication until I contact you on......"

Also, I notice that in the PDF files at RU that the headers on display do not show Centrist's IP while he is acting as anonymous. Did I miss it somewhere. Because perhaps Centrist had software or an open relay and actually spoofed his own headers to appear as Doty's.

After some research on the subject, I have found that making the very first sylvester email appear to be from Doty is very possible if you possess the right knowledge. Spammers and phishers do it all the time. I have found that the IP is one section of a header that cannot be forged. But if an open relay is used, then the IP can be changed. An open relay, as I understand it, is an email server not correctly configured, that allows everyone access. Even if your not a client.

Ok If someone points out Centrist's IP when he was acting as anonymous, fine. But it still does not explain why Doty would carry on in these exchanges as if nothing is wrong. Either he is not Anonymous or he doesn't care that imposters are involved. Kind of strange!

Originally posted by Jeddyhi
One thing that has bothered me about Doty is the fact that during the time Centrist and cohorts were duping Victor into believing Centrist was anonymous, Doty carries on as if nothing is wrong. If Doty was the actual anonymous, wouldn't he have tipped off Victor somehow.

Hmm, I thought this had all been explained 'back in the day'.
Doty/Anonymous had no contact with Victor after communication had ceased between the two. Victor was extremely angry that Anon had decided to use Bill instead. Victor didn't tell anyone at first that "his" anonymous was back in touch with him and was as happy as a happy person on World Happy Day. Doty carried on as if nothing was wrong because he didn't know.

[Also, I notice that in the PDF files at RU that the headers on display do not show Centrist's IP while he is acting as anonymous. Did I miss it somewhere. Because perhaps Centrist had software or an open relay and actually spoofed his own headers to appear as Doty's.

I explained this at OM when I was an active member. When you know what you are doing, there is no IP address displayed. Memory hint: "Mobile phones"

After some research on the subject, I have found that making the very first sylvester email appear to be from Doty is very possible if you possess the right knowledge. Spammers and phishers do it all the time. I have found that the IP is one section of a header that cannot be forged. But if an open relay is used, then the IP can be changed. An open relay, as I understand it, is an email server not correctly configured, that allows everyone access. Even if your not a client.

The email server in question belongs to Lycos, who in turn use a third party company to maintain their email servers. You will have an impossible task trying to hack your way into a server run by the one of the big web-based email providers. You are more likely to find an open relay on a stand-alone email server that a private individual or small-medium business network has configured. Not Lycos, not Microsoft, not Yahoo and not Google.

Ok If someone points out Centrist's IP when he was acting as anonymous, fine. But it still does not explain why Doty would carry on in these exchanges as if nothing is wrong. Either he is not Anonymous or he doesn't care that imposters are involved. Kind of strange!

Like I mentioned above, he didn't know. When he did find out about the imposter, you can imagine the fun and games that followed.

Cheers,
Zep

Originally posted by shmush
Does double spaces after a period mean the writing styles were the same? I use 2 spaces after periods. I guess I just need a little more clarification on why the styles were the same.

Hi Shmush, no of course it doesn't. It is significant when you know the person receiving the original emails is lying about that simple fact however. Writing style has nothing to do with the double spaces but everything to do with the content and the way it is presented.

I have made several posts in several forums regarding the writing style matching that of Rick Doty. If you can't find any of them, let me know and I will be happy to help.

Cheers,
Zep

actually...this has been answered...I should of read more. Proxy and spoofing is easy to do. faking someones i.p. is quite possible.

I'm not changing my opinion, but it is not out of the possibility that doty's i.p./headers could of been spoofed.
[edit on 14-11-2006 by waffleprime]



[edit on 14-11-2006 by waffleprime]

Shawnna:

You're being naughty again

>None of what has been published by Collins, Doty, or anyone else is classified information. Rather - those behind Doty - Kit and others - are individuals who have created a "core story" and are convinced that they are responsible for somehow bringing that "core story" to the public.

Just thought I'd let you know that the bolded part is not true

The first guy to reveal the "core story" is now dead.

As I've mentioned, I do have the original Ham Radio transcripts from 1989 that also mentions this exchange program (amongst other things).

I was also wondering Shawnna, RDube2, Zep - the original email - in what form and from whom did you receive it?

Cheers

JS

You know It would be an amazing world if people went to such great lengths to prove things true that they take efforts to prove things untrue.

The whole premise of Serpo is that it was to be taken as offered up as the presenters of the information did not know if it was true. It was believed to be true and suggested as such but decide for yourselves.

I remember how bummed out I became when I found out that Santa Claus wasn't real either... it was a real drag. But that doesn't mean that the spirit of Santa Claus doesn't live on. It doesn't mean that Santa Claus never existed either nor that the story had NO BASIS in fact... its just that the story as told wasn't a hundred percent true.



[edit on 14-11-2006 by denythestatusquo]

To all:

This is a part of the "core story" that the now dead "whistle-blower" published circa 1989:

"It was agreed that each nation would receive the ambassador of the other for as long as the treaty remained in force. It was further agreed that the alien nation and the United States would exchange 16 personnel with the purpose of learning of each other. The alien 'guests' would remain on earth. THE HUMAN 'GUESTS' WOULD TRAVEL TO THE ALIEN POINT OF ORIGIN FOR A SPECIFIED PERIOD OF TIME, then return, at which point a reverse exchange would be made. A reenactment of this event was dramatized in the movie 'CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND.'

A tipoff to who works for whom can be determined BY THE FACT THAT DR. J. ALLEN HYNEK SERVED AS THE TECHNICAL ADVISOR FOR THE FILM.

I noticed that the Top Secret report containing the official version of the truth of the alien question, entitled project GRUDGE, which I read while in the Navy, was co-authored by LT. COL. FRIEND and DR. J. ALLEN HYNEK, WHO WAS CITED AS A CIA ASSET attached to Project GRUDGE"

I'm not interested in debating the validity of this info, just providing it to show that it didn't come from RD et al. Here's a link:

www....#/cass/cooper2.htm

LOL.

Well, apparently I can't even post that link due to ATS censorship. WTF?

So, you'll have to take the hyphens out from the following url to get to the info:

[URL reference removed by Majic]

Cheers

JS

[edit on 14-11-2006 by jumpspace so you can see the origin of the Serpo story]

[edit on 14-11-2006 by jumpspace]



(Mod edit: Sorry, but there are several good reasons why the auto-censors block that domain name, including technical and legal reasons. The data is out there though for those who want to find it. For some background on why this is so, this thread offers some answers: AboveTopSecret.com is a Government COINTELPRO Disinformation Operation. And of course, there's always good ole' Google -- and heck, Google ATS, for that matter. --Majic)

[edit on 11/14/2006 by Majic]

Well, I've been following along silently for awhile. But figure I'll chime in quickly...cuz I've got a minute.

Now I am a big believer in Serpo not only being a hoax but that of course bill ryan was in on it from go.

Don't want to start a whole new thing as my position and reasons are made very clear in both the original serpo thread, the RATS thread and of course other serpo nonsense threads like the recent "debriefing video" that appeared on youtube...etc.

I only state my opinion of serpo so members know where I stand.

The reason I am posting is because I do take a pretty hard line when it comes to questioning the integrity of the amigos who really do try to be as impartial as possible while wrangling a buch of crazies (me included).

So for ease of reading I thought I would post a link to Bill's first ATS post, that way members who are deeply familiar with SERPO in general can skip right to Bills entrance here at the ol'ats waterin hole.

I think if people read the posts carefully all the way through from when bill first came to when he was ultimately banned will see that the amigos were very nice at first as were members and mods but as bill's postings continued and the shenanigans increased, you will see clearly that the position and tone of mods, members and amigos changes to one of open disbelief and frustration.

Yes its the intent of this board to explore the unknown and ridiculous but theres also an inherent responsiblity to the community you profess to serve. Which I think the amigos do a darn good job at.

Also I would like to point out that you will see as the thread goes on that that the mods and amigos banned alot of members on both the pro and con sides of serpo again trying to be as impartial and fair as possible.

Anyhoo Bills saucy intro:

by hemetae on 12/15/2005 at 12:41pm
Bill Ryan joins the discussion

Hey folks, new guy here.
Been following along pretty closely on this thread. Very good debate and discussion. I'll add some insight to some of the earlier posts a little later. For now I wanted to let people know: I've been in shallow corrospondance with Bill Ryan for the last few days, and have recommended he join this board. I just got confirmation (10 minutes ago) that he has joined and will be along shortly. He is a very busy man, so it may be sporatic, but he's eager to answer questions and chit-chat with you all.

Hey Bill, make sure to let your presence be known when you get here

Heres the link to Bills first response and of course you need to read it all till the bitter end...sorry theres no way around it folks

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just my two cents of course.

Spiderj

Originally posted by waffleprime
I'm not changing my opinion, but it is not out of the possibility that doty's i.p./headers could of been spoofed.
[edit on 14-11-2006 by waffleprime]

Hi wp, it is when one considers which email services were used in this particular case.

Cheers,
Zep