World War III Started In 1979 - Speech by U.S. Navy Captain Ouimette

Nice post Carrot..... I have learned a lot on this subject from the posts made and the suggestive reading.

Dave

Well said that man.

Islamic Terrorism started well before 9/11.

I would just like one explanation of why the copter that crashed (in a suppossed attempt to move out of the way of the plane that needed to take off) was in the way after looking at this picture of where everything was.

iran.theatlantic.com...

I also think the official explanation of the left behind documents doesn't make any sense at all and perhaps points to what the real mission was.

Hmmm..what can be said. The mission was what it was - a failure. Not sure about the accuracy of the diagrams you are referencing - someone's recollection of a dark night in the middle of a horrendous sandstrom. In fact, the reason the mission was aborted was because they didn't have enough chopper support to move onto the next staging area. The sandstorm choked the engines because some genius decided they could get another 5 knots out of the choppers by removing the sand screens. Totally brilliant move - just who would have thought you'd run into a sandstorm in the middle of the Iranian desert? Anyway, the mission had already been aborted and then the accident occurred - to say they were having a bad day is an understatement. If you've never worked on a flightline with it's normal hump and grind - imagine blinding conditions at night, poor communications, deafening noise, deadly machinery roaring around you - and don't forget to add the fog of war. Any GI will tell you - chaos comes easily once you begin the real operation.

I'm not sure what you are implying about the "real mission" - what are you suggesting?

On the upside, this disaster spurred Sen Nunn & Sen Dodd to introduce comprehensive reform of USC Title 10 establishing the US Spec Ops Command - USSOCOM. Esssentially (and simplistically put), it removed Spec Ops from the traditional forces.

So, all that said, I'll leave the subject alone. If you are still confused, try the library. Like I said - the mission was what it was - a failure.

Visit this public site: www.socom.mil...

Later

Yeah.... I have to agree with Carrot on this.... we have beat this horse to death. I think what they are saying Carrot when they are talking about the REAL MISSION.... is the possibility of something more clandestine and sinister that went hand in hand with the intended mission. Remember, this is "Above Top Secret"...... every one THINKS and BELIEVES that there is ALWAYS a HIDDEN AGENDA.

Just a thought.

Dave

So, this becomes an interesting week, with all the hoopla over the August 22 date. I think so many have not payed much attention to Iran per se in the past couple of years, but this thread says that's where it all started.

Now the fingure pointing is almost totally at Iran, while we all wait to see what their response is on Tuesday to the nuclear situation. It almost feels like it's coming full circle right back to where it started. Would they dare answer with actions instead of words?

The roots of the Islamist movement go back to Hitler and his secret meetings in the region
www.atimes.com...

but while I agree 1979 was a turning point (it certainly was in my life) I can't even get most people to understand that the FIRST attack on the WTC was the start of the war!

Oddly, Iran is what turned my politics upside down. I had an Iranian girlfriend, and started marching in the anti- Shah demonstrations held by the Iranian Student Organization. The first demonstration in Washinton, DC the Shah's secret police blew up the ISO offices, and the police opened the building to the public to destroy the crime scene. I was pissed. I was also angry that a couple of thousand of students were being held in the Shah's prisons.

So the Shah left. None of us knew that Saddam had held off on attacking Iran because the CIA was there. As soon as the CIA left, he attacked.

Under the Ayatollah tens of thousands were jailed. Over 1 million died in fighting.

Because of me.

So I learned that there were damn good reasons for the CIA to run governments, that a couple of thousand in jail is still better than thousands, and by trying to do the right thing the left can cause death on a wide scale.

The last letter I got from her was when the embassy was freed and the hostages released.

The hostage takers were given awards to coax them out ( no one was really sure they would follow the Ayatollahs directives) and were cheered- and then immediatly sent to the front lines of the Iraq and Iran war. They might as well have been executed on the spot.

Iran changed my world view- and when Israel goes in after their nuclear program it may just impact it again.

[edit on 5-9-2006 by Psychomike]

Originally posted by Peyres
Well said that man.

Islamic Terrorism started well before 9/11.

It did indeed.

However, it's not the start of World War III, at least not according what to my personal definition of a world war. ''Terrorism in the name of Allah'' might not be new, but it has primarily been a constant serie of terrorist incidents.

I see it as a prelude to a war that inevitably will break out, but just not yet. We are currently dividing up into two groups, tensions and contrasts are worsening, it's just waiting for the bomb to explode.

Seriously, it will get much worse than this.

This is a kind of sickening campaign to get the U.S. into another war (Iran) in the middle east. I take anything political w/ a grain of salt, no matter what website it comes from, especially this one..... anyway, the US is bordering on bankrupt, there's no way/reason to attack another country of innocent people. I think people should chill when dealing w/ these stories.

The deficit is at record levels
A subprime mortgage issue is as bad as the credit situation
Billions spent on Iraq A WEEK

This is a violent, vicious thread to advocate war and people should resist it.

Boycott Israeli products:
www.petitiononline.com...

reply to post by KimWHoffman


maybe the third world war as you put really started in 1948 after the signing of the balfour declaration and what yours or mine own governments percieve is doing good is in the long run counter-productive to what you say is good.

put yourself into the shoes of someone on the other side of the world and what is good is now bad. it's all a case of perception.

look at what england tried to achieve in ireland maybe.

WHY are the terrorists attacking us? we know it is NOT because they are different than all other human beings and they hate freedom and apple pie and Mom. The truth is not nice to hear: The USA is guilty of so many crimes that we engender hatred that no doubt is deserved in some cases and not in others. If we were the hell out of there and not trying to steal other peoples land and oil resources, maybe they would stop trying to kill us! The USA goes around installing petty dictators like the Shah and then sells them weapons to fight indigenous uprisings of desperate people, often using torture and murder along the way, and then when the people overcome and throw the puppets out that were stealing the wealth of their nations we cal them terrorists.

We equip the mujahadeen and make Osama our pal. We arm and train them..to kill Russkies, of course, during the cold war and Afghan invasion. Then when the Russians get out, we abandon the miltias that we funded and leave them to their own devices. Anyone suprised when they turn to Muslim fundamentalism and armed resistance of foreign imperial invaders, like the USA? Then when the Taliban sees us take their nation away after being cozy early in 2001 because they were not playing ball about the pipeline cointract like we wanted them to, they of course use force to repel us.

Think about it: WHY the hell are we over there anyway? It has been proven absolutely and totally that there were no valid reasons to attack Iraq. there were no WMD's , and the Bush cabal had a special office dedicated to spreading the lies, staffed by Neocon AIPAC members, using lies and smears to promote the invasion of Iraq. Iraq and Iran and Syria are all on the wish list that Bush promised the Israeli's long ago. The PNAC plan is unfolding unabated. The territorial conquest of Iraq was just one small step in the PNAC plan but it proved to be far worde than the ' cakewalk' that we were promised by Rummy.

Remember that gas prices were supposed to go DOWN because of all the oil we would get by invading Iraq? they said it would pay for itself!! The whole invasion was supposed to be profitable...and it was, but NOT to the people, only to the special interests and insiders. as always. The pals of the right wing corporate global vultures make trillions and laugh at us laboring away..they laugh in our faces as they clink champagne glasses toasting their success on 9-11...they howl when they think about the meager response from the media and the utter ignoring of Sibel Edmonds and her proof of criminality.

What a great nation!!

swimming in a sea of lies.

i feel american leaders will never change the way they are simply because they do not bear the brunt personally of their actions..their own people and the rest of the world sweeps up the pieces for them.

everything about this invasion is a lie, it only serves two purposes :

the control of oil in the region (and the rising prices)

unleashing big brother on her people

a very sad chapter in the land of the free

Originally posted by Psychomike
The roots of the Islamist movement go back to Hitler and his secret meetings in the region
www.atimes.com...

I'll give you a little licence on that one and assume that when you say "Hitler's meetings", you actually mean "Nazi Germany's meddlings" in the Middle East (not that they are ipso facto any less legitimate that Anglo, Franco or Russo meddlings in same region).

If you're going to list the Rashid Ali rising as the roots of the Islamic movement then you need to go to the prevoius World War and the death throes of the Ottoman Empire and while we're at it we could look at the events of the Great Game as they played out just to the north and east of Persia, when they didn't directly involve the Kingdom, or how about the little stoush between Guy and Saladin, after all that one preceeded Richard couer d'Lyon's Middle Eastern adventures.

As a catch-all definition, I would suggest that "Islamism" has its rise in the collision between "colonialism" and "self-determination"-cum-"nationalism" that proceeded the Versaille Treaty.

If you spend a century or so being told what to do by a bunch of outsiders, you are likely to begin to flock to anybody who tells you things like "we used to be great" and "we can be great again, God says so" and who follows it up with "God says the path to greatness is to kill anybody you disagree with" and who defines "anybody you disagree with" as "anybody I disagree with, starting with those foreign infidels who won't go home".

I'm just curious Dave,

Did anything happen in Iran in, oh say 1952, 1953, or 1954, that might royally have pissed off the Iranians towards America? Remember now, in the early 50s, Iran was a FIRST WORLD country. They were PRO WEST. What happened in the mid 50s to cause them to become anti-west in a mere 20 years?

Time and time again, these Islamics keep saying "Quit screwing around with our countries". Is that so hard to understand?

It's amazing how many times, in life, and in countries, if you leave your neighbor alone, he will leave you alone.

By all means, if we leave them alone, and they screw with us, turn them into a glass parking lot. But not until WE LEAVE THEM ALONE FIRST.

Granted, this would require putting the CIA on a leash, and we saw what happened to the last president to try that (JFK).

Edit to add: One other thing: WHICH COUNTRY put Saddam in power?

[edit on 24-9-2008 by sir_chancealot]

Why are we under attack???????

It is because we have exploited their resources and caused massive instability in their region?

If the middle east did this to us, Americans will be doing the same back to them. Religion has nothing to do with this.

Perception is everything...

When Preznit Chimpy was getting ready to invade Iraq, he notoriously did not know the difference between Shiites and Sunnis.

"Aren't they all Moslems?", Chimpy asked in obvious confusion.

We LIED to get into the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Iraq had NOTHING to do with WMDs. NOTHING to do with Al Quaeda.

And Chimpy didn't even know that he was about to step in a big pile of Shiite. He didn't know that two factions that hate each other were in Iraq.

Maybe things will get better with Obama. At least Obama can find his butt with both hands. Chimpy needs to call for help from Mister Cheney.