too much junk...it's time to grow up.

I've been lurking (till fairly recently) on ATS since not long after its conception, after finding out about it by accident. I find it rather sad that its went down hill as much as it has. I don't blame the mods in any way, as with the massive ammounts of posts ATS receives each day means they can only be in one place at one time.

Of late we seem to have been infested with kids (or those of a childish mind) seemingly intent on passing off the most obvious frauds, fakes and made up stories as truth. People get bored after a while, so I have a feeling that it'll probably subside. In this day and age where everyone can knock out a fake UFO pic in photoshop and many, many thousands are into 3D modelling and animation (like myself), it is only natural that some will try and pass off fakes as real to gain some sort of 'Kudos' they feel they need.

Maybe we should ask ourselves why the youth (and also some of the not so young) feel the need to do this. I think 99% of us are not so open minded that our brains fall out (to paraphrase Harry Houdini), so we can take with a very large pinch of salt some of the more extravigant claims made here by some members.

I'd like to add that I don't tar and feather all new or young members with the same brush and think everyone deserves at least one chance to mess things up in a new and interesting way. The question is where do we draw the line of our tolerance?

Wayne...

Granted, I've only been posting for a little over a month - but I've noticed the trend as well.

When I first go there, I though more people would take the site seriously - the point system and the general constuction of the site with it's variouse levels ID, BTS and ATS made it seem like there was a place for everyone.

Unfortunately, human nature has once again taken it's toll.

It's not just on ATS - it's rampant throught the majority of the internet - more and more people are logging on and "expressing themselves" without any thought or consideration on how they are influencing matters.

The "forum" (any forum for that matter) is a perfect opportunity for people who feel they have no voice in the outside world to lay down their thought, opinions and speculations without the immediate response of normal conversation.

I still find it shocking how eager people are to have their opinions validated, without even giving thought to how they are "contibuting" to the community at large.

I really don't think it's about the points. After all, what good are they? Zilch. I think it's one of two things;
A: a desperate need for attention
B: just jerkin' people around

It's not so much "proof" that we're looking for as much as it's any kind of evidence. Maybe an eyewitness, a short article in the paper, anything....some little tiny iota of a scrap, that in any way could back up the story. The lack of said evidence is particulary annoying when the thread author says, "Oh, I have proof, I'm just not allowed to show it." Gimme a break.

I don't think those kind of threads should be ignored either. Why? Because sometimes they don't go away, and when they don't, they cheapen this forum. Let's use sleeper's thread as an example. It was impossible to ignore that thread away because, unbelievable as it may seem, some people seemed to think he had some real answers and they kept it alive. It didn't end until it got ugly.

I want to point this out also.....EtherealForce pulled one over on a bunch of you. It struck me how many skeptics swallowed his explanation about the drug induced experiences, with the same amount of proof supporting his original claim. Go back and read his first couple of posts; then read his posts about 4 days later. I'm optimistic about the resilience of the human mind, but I don't think he completely altered his world view that drastically in 4 calender days.

So I say, confront them with what I will call "forceful intellect". Demonstrate to the posters and the lurkers that we have a high standard for this forum and we expect them to be maintained. If they want to post fiction, get a blog and start typing.

Yeah, well, when i first started coming to this site, there were massive posts, with well documented research, and a lot of really out there type conspiracys...

fact of the matter- many have been solved or satisfactorily debunked... so they are no more fun

also, this is much like hogwarts university...
those that have served their time, go on to bigger and better things (like jobs, and actual ghost/ufo hunting) while others stay and learn.

some of our original members have "graduated" in the sense, that about 80% of what is posted is old news to them... so you see them less active, but no less interested (when new info comes out)

now instead of being marveled at by great posters, and being suprised by huge new connections being made... it is my turn and others to do the marveling, and the impressing...

So in short, much as others have stated... if you dont like this site, then be more active in it, and make it better...

YOU TOO, CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

Also, there are many new developments that i am excited about...
the new conspiracy masters website is one...

we didn't have that in the begining, but i see that it was the natural evolutionary goal...

Join a research project, give of your time, to pursue the truth...
some of us just like to play with the notions, while some like to prove them...

it's up to the mods to draw the line.

it's up to us to not promote such chilidish abstractions.

I agree that it is only fair to give everyone on here a chance. Even a 14 year old may have a creative insight to some of our problems. It's the youth that tend to put a fresh twist on things (I guess I'm biased..considering I am only 17.)

It goes way deeper than that with me. I've been studying/researching/investigating UFOs for some 30 years now. I've been out in the field interviewing witness' and tracking down radar and media reports.
How would you feel if you had spent years studying a subject and whoa along comes some snot nose kid with a tale of extra terrestrial contact and everyone knucklehead in the vicinity says oooh I believe you what is the meaning of life?
When will people realise it's not the meaning of life but the meaning of living. Life has no meaning other than what we give it by living.
My life means not to those who weren't participants.
I chose UFOs as a hobby and have been chasing the elusive rascals for years now. I even had some supposed Airmen at McDill try to pull a hoax on me and get their names in the paper. And I've also been accused of being a troll here and attacked personally off board(including threats of physical violence).
Well you can accuse me and threaten me but I will not give up favorite subject to hoaksters and jokesters and people who hide behind their anonimity to threaten people. My email address is available and I look forward to intelligent discussion.

Even people like Copernicus was ridculed. He attempted to prove the world revolves around a stationary sun. But with the catholic church's foot in every aspect of life, it was not allowed to think such things. He was frowned upon for such a revolutionary idea..."WE are the center of the universe, everything else is inferior."

It is up to the collective, of scientists..writers..hobbyists..and the average joe willing to 'Deny Ignorance' to finally work toward disclosure, or at least progression in our quest for the truth.

Originally posted by enthuziazm
Even people like Copernicus was ridculed. He attempted to prove the world revolves around a stationary sun. But with the catholic church's foot in every aspect of life, it was not allowed to think such things. He was frowned upon for such a revolutionary idea..."WE are the center of the universe, everything else is inferior."

It is up to the collective, of scientists..writers..hobbyists..and the average joe willing to 'Deny Ignorance' to finally work toward disclosure, or at least progression in our quest for the truth.

___________________

Dunno?, but there are some great members and moderators here on ATS. But I must admit, since being off the air for a bit, I have come back to ATS noticing a kinda-different crowd.
But for now, I'll just suppose it's me and my fond thoughts of ATS when last a more day-to-day Member.

Dallas

where were they on the "...this WILL change your mind...." thread?

I admittedly didn't bother to read past the first 4 pages before skipping to page 21!!

21 pages of drivel and I don't think a mod posted even once.

I haven't checked the thread since last night but hopefully it's closed and dying a nice slow death in the Trash Bin...

edited: was 21 pages of drivel not 23. My bad.

[edit on 6/6/2006 by justgeneric]

Seems like the same old stuff to me. Things have gotten more political but other than that, same o same o. Maybe you expected more, like an actual photo of a grey or something. Just keep coming back and you will like everyone else. ATS is a drug that you can't kick. No matter how hard you try, you always come back for the high. ATS is the true dope.

Originally posted by enthuziazm
it's up to the mods to draw the line.

I don't mod the UFO forum, but it is one of my favorites.
As mods, it is our duty to uphold ATS’s terms and condition and keep ATS as an open forum for discussion.
In the past there have been people knowingly post false information (i.e. hoaxing) they are dealt with accordingly, banned even.
Sometimes though, a hoax may be so good that it is difficult to determine if the member is knowingly posting false information.
This is why we need you guys, the debunkers.
Sometimes “debunkers” are accused of being non-believes or even “agents.”
The reality is that debunkers keep us from leaping to false conclusions and looking like fools.
Also remember that summer is quickly approaching and those who are usually kept busy with school work now have 2 months of free time with little else to do but to spill garbage all over the net.
So if you guys see something that looks fake, go ahead and debunk it, if it is real it will withstand your debunking. Just remember our T&C and always remember this post No more scoffing and ridicule...

Originally posted by notbuynit
Seems like the same old stuff to me. Things have gotten more political but other than that, same o same o. Maybe you expected more, like an actual photo of a grey or something. Just keep coming back and you will like everyone else. ATS is a drug that you can't kick. No matter how hard you try, you always come back for the high. ATS is the true dope.

I think every one on here would like to see a legit picture of a grey. But the likelyhood of that happening is second to none.

We just need a more mature atmosphere when dealing with matters such as these. Otherwise, when something does come along worth investigating...like a picture of a grey...we can deal with it properly, have progressive discussion, and eliminate flame wars.

Doctor,
I saw a post of yours that said you have invented something amazing.
I thought this was what was right on target.

Originally posted by enthuziazm
the world revolves around a stationary sun

You sure 'bout that?

ok well I guess it's not stationary, we are all revolving (including the sun) around what we think might be a black hole in the center of our galaxy we call the milky way.

I think grammar Nazism is going too far, although there are posts that I wont read because someone has just rushed their typing and it is too hard to work out what the heck they are trying to say. I mean if you have something to say, something to add to a debate surely its worth a few minutes of your time to and make some sort of effort. I know you miss stuff, wrong spelling of a word etc. but just a little time. It does seem wrong that someone presents a work that would rival a PHD dissertation only to have some Muppet reply with "Eye fink yoor rong" or something.

I know just because your spelling and grammar are not perfect doesn't make your viewpoint any less valid. But a little care may mean more people actually take time to read it Sometimes I feel that with some contributors their threads are the first time they have actually written anything like an essay.

As for hoaxers. Well they are a pain. It is hard to decide whether they are hoaxers or people that genuinely believe something they receive. I am thinking of the "UFO Seagull" debate.

Genuine (?) hoaxes in some part do play a part. There are enough "experts" here to debunk most. Photos that years ago may have been saleable to papers or publishers are here debunked in a few hours. That guys is good.
That the contributor does not hang around to defend is good. You scared him off with your accurate assessment. No doubt he/she still visits the site to see how the thread is going....but must feel deflated when it is obviously debunked

I do feel sometimes its kiddies with too much time on their hands. I picture them sitting round the monitor s'n-word'ing....Until they are owned

I am a new poster. Someone said about blocking ips of new posters. Don't work if your ip is dynamic. Ultimately ATS has the control of who can and can not post.
If you can new members from posting what if someone who has been visiting here for years but not registered has a bit of genuine evidence...would you prefer they sold it to the news? I can remember some months back someone joined to post a "ghost" photo. In that case I think it was a case of not proven. It did not seem fake and the guy seemed genuine. But what if it really were the ghost photo of the century where would he post?

The only thing that I can say is that in the 6 months that I have been here, I have noticed that there are a lot more trolls than when I had first joined. I think that this is not because of an administrative or moderator problem, but because of the sheer wealth of overall silliness.

If a troll sees that there is an abundance of crap, he will come to feed. Sometimes I wish that the forum were hidden from all but registered viewers - it would help a lot - and a few more moderators with knowledge of the forums that they moderate. And, in all honesty, there needs to be no limits on the ignore feature. 10? Come on. Often there are at least 15 trolls in one thread.

I'm sure that these sorts of things come and go - but I am still more than satisfied with the place. I think it's a wonderful resource and will be here for the long haul.

Originally posted by justgeneric
where were they on the "...this WILL change your mind...." thread?

I admittedly didn't bother to read past the first 4 pages before skipping to page 21!!

21 pages of drivel and I don't think a mod posted even once.

I haven't checked the thread since last night but hopefully it's closed and dying a nice slow death in the Trash Bin...

edited: was 21 pages of drivel not 23. My bad.

[edit on 6/6/2006 by justgeneric]

I u2u spittin cobra and explained it was a drug induced experience, he wanted proof of that on the thread so i pointed them out, and thread closed now.

But why a mod did not even comment after so many pages confuses me.

And yet people continued to ask "is there a god" lol

[edit on 6-6-2006 by Denied]

It's a shame that there are so many people that just believe the crap that is in the tabloids. I find this forum to be a very interesting section. But I have to agree when people start getting in reptile people and the other ilk, it gets rather dumb. I think we will always have folks that just want to make themselves look good. I just wish that if they had something "REAL" and not tabloid, they would back it up.
My only encounter with a UFO was something I saw on a radar screen in Viet Nam and once in the Idaho mountains on a clear night. As far as little guys jumping out, nope have not seen one. I do think we are not alone in all of this universe. It's a shame that people want to be noticed after they read the tabloids.

Originally posted by enthuziazm
it's up to the mods to draw the line.

it's up to us to not promote such chilidish abstractions.

I agree that it is only fair to give everyone on here a chance. Even a 14 year old may have a creative insight to some of our problems. It's the youth that tend to put a fresh twist on things (I guess I'm biased..considering I am only 17.)

Ok, first of all it is not up to the mods to draw the line.
Second of all if u think its rubbish then fire back at the author with facts instead of starting threads about how crao the threads are getting, i promice you your viewpoints will be held with a more valible and truthfull insight if u do it that way rather then jumping on the wagon with the people u r having a wah about because lets face it you are doing the exact same thing they are doing by writing threads like this.
If u dont like something you read then prove them wrong with facts instead of blaming the mods and the rest of the wonderfull staff here at ATS plz and i garintee that your thoughts and points of view will be held in a more respected light.

Omega85