Knights Of Templar

Wouldnt' those two organizations be irregular, rather than clandestine? That other page i cited states that the clandestine ones haven't recevied a charter, but irregular ones have a charter but are 'in error' (ie, heretical no?)

So where exactly does the rose line go? cant find a picture of it on a world map, and what exactly is the connection with that and templars/masons?

Clandestine

en.wikipedia.org...
Clandestine is an adjective meaning that its reference is something secret or guerrilla in nature, such as certain activities executed by spies.

www.m-w.com...
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French clandestin, from Latin clandestinus, from clam secretly; akin to Latin celare to hide

dictionary.cambridge.org...
adjective FORMAL
planned or done in secret, especially describing something that is not officially allowed:

The group held weekly clandestine meetings in a church.
He has been having a clandestine affair with his secretary for three years.
She undertook several clandestine operations for the CIA.

It apprears the Masons and the rest of the world are at odds as to what "Clandestine" means.

The masonic groups are saying that a Clandestine Mason is one from a group that isn't 'seen', that hasn't been issued a charter, that isn't 'on the records', and that its outside of regular masonry, so far outside that it can't be 'healed'.

Its perfectly within the understanding of the word clandestine, its a lodge operating clandestinely out of the view of the head lodges.

Are you saying that the Knights Templar were Clandestine Masons? Or that most Clandestine Masons now are Knights Templar, parading as masons?

Originally posted by Nygdan
Wouldnt' those two organizations be irregular, rather than clandestine? That other page i cited states that the clandestine ones haven't recevied a charter, but irregular ones have a charter but are 'in error' (ie, heretical no?)

In general Masonic usage, "clandestine" and "irregular" are synonyms, and are used interchangeably. For example, my Grand Lodge considers the Prince Hall Affiliation to be clandestine, even though they have charters. The point really isn't in the possession of a charter itself, but whether or not the charter is legitimate.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Nygdan
Wouldnt' those two organizations be irregular, rather than clandestine? That other page i cited states that the clandestine ones haven't recevied a charter, but irregular ones have a charter but are 'in error' (ie, heretical no?)

In general Masonic usage, "clandestine" and "irregular" are synonyms, and are used interchangeably. For example, my Grand Lodge considers the Prince Hall Affiliation to be clandestine, even though they have charters. The point really isn't in the possession of a charter itself, but whether or not the charter is legitimate.

ML,
I was thinking about joing Prince Hall. Can you tell me why your grand lodge considers them clandestine?

Originally posted by greek6787


ML,
I was thinking about joing Prince Hall. Can you tell me why your grand lodge considers them clandestine?

The Constitution of my Grand Lodge states that there can only be one legitimate Grand Lodge within its geographical jurisdiction. This is a result of the merger between two Grand Lodges who did not formerly recognize each other (Free and Accepted Masons and Antient York Masons, in the early 19th century).

The Prince Hall Affiliation Grand Lodge is not chartered by this body, so is not recognized.

It could be that some time in the future the PH Grand Lodge will request our recognition. If so, our Constitution could be amended to allow for that (it has already been done in quite a few states).

The only thing I find questionable is the many allegations I've heard concerning hazing in PH Lodges. I would recommend to my Grand Lodge that these be looked into before we actually vote on recognition, and if any problem is found, it be corrected first.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The Constitution of my Grand Lodge states that there can only be one legitimate Grand Lodge within its geographical jurisdiction. This is a result of the merger between two Grand Lodges who did not formerly recognize each other (Free and Accepted Masons and Antient York Masons, in the early 19th century).

The Prince Hall Affiliation Grand Lodge is not chartered by this body, so is not recognized.

It could be that some time in the future the PH Grand Lodge will request our recognition. If so, our Constitution could be amended to allow for that (it has already been done in quite a few states).

The only thing I find questionable is the many allegations I've heard concerning hazing in PH Lodges. I would recommend to my Grand Lodge that these be looked into before we actually vote on recognition, and if any problem is found, it be corrected first.

Ok. I can understand that. Before I can join, I was told that I have to research Prince Hall history first. I notice on the united grand lodge of england website that they are recognized by them: www.grandlodge-england.org...

I was told by a friend that there are many clandestine lodges out there. So when I read what you said it caught my eye. I'll make sure I bring up the question of hazing when I speak with two of the brothers this weekend that is coming by my house.

So where exactly does the rose line go? cant find a picture of it on a world map, and what exactly is the connection with that and templars/masons?

you can see many "roselines " on a world map. A roseline is any longitudal line that
runs through the poles. As I recall the prime line today ( and since sometime in the 1800s) runs through Grenich Switzerland. the oldprime line as i recall was something like 14 degrees farther east but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
So where exactly does the rose line go? cant find a picture of it on a world map, and what exactly is the connection with that and templars/masons?

That is avery good question to be asking. Ill try to explain. The Rose line has been under attack for quite some time because of its value as a symbol. Not that it is somehow the symbolic bloodline of Christ, but a bloodline of the origins of humanity. It is a pointer, a director if you will. But to understand the extreme importance of this symbol you must understand why it was attempted to hide it by wrapping it in myth after myth.

en.wikipedia.org...

"Esoteric interpretations
In certain circles, some kind of occult or esoteric significance is ascribed to the Paris Meridian; sometimes it is even perceived as a sinister axis. Dominique Stezepfandts, a French conspiracy theorist, attacks the Arago medallions that supposedly trace the route of "an occult geographical line"; to him the Paris Meridian is a "Masonic axis" or even "the heart of the Devil".

Henry Lincoln, in his book The Holy Place, argues that various ancient structures are aligned according to the Paris Meridian. They even include medieval churches, built long before the meridian was established according to conventional history, and Lincoln finds it obvious that the meridian "was based upon the 'cromlech intersect division line'." David Wood, in his book Genisis, likewise ascribes a deeper significance to the Paris Meridian and takes it into account when trying to decipher the geometry of the myth-encrusted village of Rennes-le-Château: The meridian passes about 350 meters (yards) west of the site of the so-called "Poussin tomb", an important location in the legends and esoteric theories relating to that place. (A skeptical discussion of these theories, including the supposed "alignments", can be found in Bill Putnam and Edwin Wood's book The Treasure of Rennes-le-Château - A mystery solved.)"

The Rose line is the Paris Meridian, it is situated with Magnetic north, not the arbitrary true north, which is not true.

"The Paris Meridian also turns up in Dan Brown's bestselling novel The Da Vinci Code, where it is referred to as the "Rose Line" and presented as "the world's first prime meridian" (p. 106). Actually the idea of establishing a prime meridian dates back to antiquity, with suggested meridians running through Rhodes or the Canary Islands. When Greenwich was adopted as the universal zero longitude in 1884 (not 1888 as the novel says), it had at least nine rivals besides Paris (Berlin, Cadiz, Copenhagen, Lisbon, Rio, Rome, St. Petersburg, Stockholm, and Tokyo)."

The Rose line, the Paris Meridian, points to the Magnetic North Pole en.wikipedia.org...

Ask yourself why it was so importaint to move the location of the north pole from its true location (magnetic north), the location the rose line points to, to an abitrary point some distance away, and then rename it true north, and you will have solved the greatest secret of the Templars/ masons.





[edit on 6-6-2006 by All Seeing Eye]

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

you can see many "roselines " on a world map. A roseline is any longitudal line that
runs through the poles. As I recall the prime line today ( and since sometime in the 1800s) runs through Grenich Switzerland. the oldprime line as i recall was something like 14 degrees farther east but I could be wrong.

Its Greenwich. And its not in Switzerland. It is in England. Just west of London to be exact.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye

Ask yourself why it was so importaint to move the location of the north pole from its true location (magnetic north), the location the rose line points to, to an abitrary point some distance away, and then rename it true north, and you will have solved the greatest secret of the Templars/ masons.

So, then tell us, what is this secret? Why did they move the line?

I cant think of a single reason why it would matter what true north/magnetic north are, as long as everyone agrees on it. Nor do I see what this has to do with the origins of humanity or the price of tea in china.

Originally posted by greek6787
I notice on the united grand lodge of england website that they are recognized by them: www.grandlodge-england.org...

Hi Greek6787

The position of UGLE is slightly more complicated than that, I'm afraid. UGLE will recognize Prince Hall only when the state Grand Lodge recognizes them. This leaves 14 (at last count) Prince Hall Grand Lodges, primarily in the Southern States, that are not recognized by UGLE.

The only issue for non-recognition for UGLE is the territorial consideration, as in every other respect they are regarded as quite regular these days. I know that senior masons at UGLE would be very keen to see this situation resolved and would like to recognize all Prince Hall lodges, but this is clearly a matter for the local Grand Lodges to resolve themselves. Please bear in mind that UGLE has absolutely no jurisdiction in the US but does seek to build a consensus where possible through the desperately tortuous recognition issues. If there is any pressure on all parties concerned to recognize each other it would be entirely informal as we are talking about sovereign Grand Lodges here.

This matter is of particular interest to me as a UGLE freemason, as I am moving to Alabama shortly and this is one of the areas where mutual recognition has not been achieved. This is a shame as it means I can't visit PH lodges and I understand there is a rich history and quality ritual to be experienced in their temples.

As to the question of clandestine versus irregular, personally I'm not too sure what the practical difference is, and I have heard the phrases used interchangeably. I suspect ML is right in his analysis - it is the difference between quasi-masonic and non-masonic. In the case of PH it is a technicality keeping some from being regular (in UGLEs eyes anyway)

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
location of the north pole from its true location (magnetic north)

?

Magnetic North is not the location of the north pole. Magnetic north is a geo-magnetic anamoly, there are actually a few locations that are 'magnetic north'.

to an abitrary point some distance away

I would think that if there is a line, and its been moved to protect something, then it must've pointed out something that you want to hide. But why think that the people that were involved in the acceptance of Greenwich wanted to cover something up?

gsc.nrcan.gc.ca...

This will show you how the mythincal "Pole" moves in a "Oval" pattern.

Terrela is a model of the earth that trys to duplicate the earths magnetic patterns.

en.wikipedia.org...

William Gilbert seems to be the first, in 1600, to study the magnetic effects of our planet.

en.wikipedia.org...

Even today it is not completly known why there are northern lights or how they work. Much has been learned but the region still holds facinating myseries. It is theorized that the "Wobble effect" of the north pole is due to molten lava spinning in the center of the earth. But to confirm this theory some brave soul must traval there and take scientific readings.

There have been many scientific expiditions to this region with varing degree's of success.

Geomagnetism
Early Concept of the North Magnetic Pole

gsc.nrcan.gc.ca...

"It was generally assumed that the magnetic mountain was located at the geographic pole, so the discovery of magnetic declination, that the compass does not point true north, posed a problem which was solved by placing the magnetic mountain some distance from the geographic pole. The great map maker, Gerhard Mercator, attempted to locate the magnetic pole more precisely by determining the intersection point of great circles derived from values of magnetic declination obtained at different locations. Mercator first tried this in 1546, but soon found that his great circles did not all intersect at a single point. He solved this problem by invoking two magnetic poles. This accompanying figure shows the Arctic insert on Mercator's famous map of 1569 which clearly shows two magnetic poles, separated by 500 km."

This early map is very revealing to the occalt practioner. It shows two magnetic norths, but also shows something else far more interesting. Can you find it?
gsc.nrcan.gc.ca...





[edit on 7-6-2006 by All Seeing Eye]

Erm, may be being stupid here but I found a pentacle
But i suppose you can find pentacles pretty much anywhere

[edit on 7-6-2006 by george_gaz]

[edit on 7-6-2006 by george_gaz]

This early map is very revealing to the occalt practioner. It shows two magnetic norths, but also shows something else far more interesting. Can you find it?

A very inaccurate map drawn with little knowldge of the world?

It shows the north pole being on land with four rivers coming out. Since we now know that the north pole sits in water, its obvious whoever drew this map didnt have a clue.

I study the occult and practice certain things within it. Yet I don't see anything of obvious signifigance.

I dont even see the pentagram.

A very inaccurate map drawn with little knowldge of the world?

First I would like to establish what "Knowledge" is and isnt. In a court of law a whitness must be able to say if he saw an event. To have personal knowledge about something is not the same as someone who thinks something. Did you see the event, yes or no. You cant get up on the stand and say, "Well, I think this or that, someone told me that. That is a rumor, second hand information. The court only wants to hear what you know, not what you have heard.

Concerning this map, the first thing is do we have any witnesses who know Gerhard Mercator, and saw him create this map? Im cerain the answer is no. What would posses Gerhard to create a map that is so inaccurate? Or is it. Has anyone been to this location to confirm its inaccuracy?

Do we really know the mythincal north pole sits in water? From all the expeditions, no one seems to have been able to find the mythincal magnetic north pole.

In the 1997 issue of Nation Geographic Vol 191 NO.3 page 43, there is a graph that shows all the arctic "Ice drift" stations within a box called the "Gore Box". Nearly all of this arctic area has been traversed by these stations except for a area that is centered about 1000 miles due north of Barrow Alaska and about 300 miles in diameter. If you read all the accounts of explorers in this area you will find mystery after mystery concerning this area. But remember, these people are witnesses.

You want the answers? Become an expert in the far north. Research ALL information that is available about the north. Eskimo, Norsman, ledends. If you do you might even find the names of those 4 rivers, and the great Templar/Mason, secret.

[edit on 8-6-2006 by All Seeing Eye]

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye

You want the answers? Become an expert in the far north. Research ALL information that is available about the north. Eskimo, Norsman, ledends. If you do you might even find the names of those 4 rivers, and the great Templar/Mason, secret.

[edit on 8-6-2006 by All Seeing Eye]

I have looked into the mythos of the Norse. Nothing about four rivers. The prose Edda mentions 11.

home.earthlink.net...

The above poem is about Skadi the hunter goddess and ice giantess.

The Nifelheim is the land of the dead. It is the frozen wasteland in which the souls of the desceased go. This is within the beliefs of many pagan religons of today, such as Asatru.

But I do not see any link or involvement with the Knights Templar or the Freemasons. Both groups are more focused upon middle eastern/near eastern estorica, and little if anything to do with Nordic stuff.

Stop being so cryptic. Youre not breaking any ground here. What is the big secret you are claiming the Templars and Masons keep so secret, thats so sinister and evil and has to do with the origins of man? Just spill it if you know it.

Unless......please tell me youre not refering to hollow earth theories! Im trying to be serious here.

As for Mercator, knowldge of the world at the time was extremely limted and no one had any real clue what the north pole looked like. No one would successfully explore the north pole until a couple centuries later. If you look at maps from that time, youll notice half of them have sea serpents and mermaids on them with warnings of "here be dragons". So forgive me if I do not take such things seriously in reference to the shape of the world.

And so far, I have not seen any credible evidence that the north pole is on solid ground. Ice sheets and clumps of ice do not count. They are not terra firma.

So again, enough with the riddles. What is this big secret?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Stop being so cryptic. Youre not breaking any ground here. What is the big secret you are claiming the Templars and Masons keep so secret, thats so sinister and evil and has to do with the origins of man? Just spill it if you know it.

Since ASE ain't coughing it up, here it is (drumroll please):


The secret sauce in Big Macs is thousand island salad dressing.

Congratulations. All of you are now 98° Masons.