Christianity: Possibly Satan's utlimate deceit?

Ok... I've been stewing over this for a LOOOOONG time now. I'm kinda riled up and in the mindset, so I'm gonna try something here...

Ok, first of all, I am anti-christian (for my own reasons...) I am NOT Satanic or otherwise. I am Agnostic.

I sat around one night thinking about the "Crusades" and how they never really ended, just changed faces. All of a sudden it hit me... if I was the devil, and I wanted to decieve the world, what would be the best way? The answer to that question became pretty obvious to me... the ULTIMATE DECEIT! If I was Satan trying to influence the rest of the world, I would simply start with a few, convince them that I am God, or a holy man working in the name of god, and get the people to follow my lead in the 'name of god'. As soon as you have enough righteous few, they will readily convince friends, and then I would have an army. Who cares if I'm lying, right? That's part of the game.

Of course, once I have the army, I would convince them that they need to convert the rest of the world by whatever means possible, even death. If they won't convert, I could convince my followers that they should just kill the sinners while their souls are still pure enough to enter 'heaven'.

I would also take what is already in scripture, put what I want into a "compilation", and call it "god's law". What's better than taking something nobody is arguing with and just twisting it around to suit my own needs?

So, what I am suggesting here, is that christianity is based upon the lies of the devil. It's not what I COMPLETELY believe, but I do think it as a strong possibility, and I can see more convincing evidence every day I'm alive, sadly... that could be from peple straying from their religions, or other reasons... thus why I don't hold to it 100%.

SO, what I want to do with this thread is start it and not intervene until I think both sides have been covered thoroughly. I want all replies to be as open-minded as possible... none of the BS righteousness of "I am christian, and you are so full of it and should go to hell!" "F" that... you wanna be like that, go find some christian site and bash on the random poster who says you are an idiot. I want Crhistians themselves to question it, and I want Satanists to question what they believe when replying to this thread. Let's keep this ON subject and see where it evolves. I may have a valid idea, I may not... I'm testing it. That is why I won't intervene for some time... I don't want to push the matter to suit my own means.

And the big question... What's YOUR thoughts?

lol... on a side not, if you're thinking I'm being a jerk because of my avatar, it is a joke... the "halo" around the head that actually has the "mark of the beast". It reflects the subject at hand. I've had this avatar up for a long time... since I got the idea about the "ultimate deceit". I'm an artist, so don't take it too literally. This thread's subject is what the avatar is all about.

Edit: Add: I feel that this is more of a conspiracy related subject than a theology. If it was theological, I would not be suggesting a corrupt religion. Moderator, if you would please keep this in the "conspiracy" section. I feel that it would benifit the thread by forcing an openminded opinion. In the theology section, it would be the equivilant to a witch trial. I'm basically suggesting a conspiracy by the devil to overtake the world under a guise of deceit, as christian prophecy has foretold.

[edit on 1-6-2006 by Earthscum]

Excellent thread. Wish I had more to say of the subject, but religion has never been my strong point.

I've known right from wrong as a child - never had much use for a group or organization tell me how to live every facet of what I've already instinctively known.

I'm agnostic as well - and I like to keep things as simple as possible.

I think you have a great point here - since the entire "theory" of Satan is that he perverts God's creation - would not he strike first at the very epicenter of Religion?

Heck - I would were I so inclined to corrupt the masses. Show them what they want to see, wear the banner, wave the flags and hold the book on high while slowly slipping in one's own agenda over time.

Makes complete sense to me.

Are you sure youre not a satanist, people would believe you were by just questioning what you have. is not one of the views of satanism, that the devil is the good one and that christians god is the real bad one.
i know where you are going with this, and i have thought about it two.
i tell you what i do believe, is that there are indeed two sides to us spiritually. i believe that there are two sides to the spirit realm, which fundamentaly runs this planet.
just what side of that equation the christians are on, i do not know. since vatican 2 the church has changed so much, that it is even possible that the vatican has changed sides, like you say, if you were the devil, the most important thing would be to get at people through there spiritual beliefs.
the problem with todays society is people are being told to decide what is right and wrong for themselves and with the conditioning we all get in the west, our morals are no more. so saying things like i know what is right and what is wrong, is useless, because you only know what you were conditioned to know. why do we have so much violence and sex on tv and movies. of course they condition us, and lower our moral judgements. we should get our views on right and wrong from a higher source, i.e god, like where the 10 commandments supposedly came from. we should not be able to decide what is right for ourselfs.
but on your main question, i do believe the vatican has switched sides(whatever those sides were at the start i do not know). like when you go to mass on a sunday, that service is supposed to be used to open yourself upto the holy spirit, some believe it is not anymore. how the hell would anyone know what forces our leaders are opening us up to., i do not know.
then we have all the new age mysticism that is in todays culture, where people themsleves are opening themsleves upto whatever for things like self improvement etc...
the world today is like the blind leading the blind, and i am sure there is some spiritual control of it all, what that is, we don't know. also one last thing, i like many others think that there will be a time when everyone in this world will be detatched from what ever we call god, leaving us open to other forces, and the human race will have accepted it with open arms.


[edit on 1-6-2006 by andy1033]

I am someone who has accepted Christ as my Savior. God/Jesus/Holy Spirit lives with me and in me. As somone else said denying Jesus as the only means of salavation and eternal life would not be the truth, but a lie that satan would/ will use to keep some from knowing God.

Also alot of people look at/to the catholic church as the example of how one comes to God. The church is the people that have accepted Christ as Savior, it is not an institution set up with rules or buildings. It is the individuals that make up the church who are actually the church.

it is not the catholic following that dictate to the church, the church dictates to the people. the pope has ultimate power over the church on earth, so he can swing the church in what direction he wants.
so what the thread starter is saying is maybe if the pope has ultimate power, than he may choose to go down the wrong road, like many believe with regards to the vatican 2.

we all only know jesus with our limited intelligence from the bible. with our limited brains, how can we possibly know the truth about what jesus means or what he is. whats in the bible is for us on our level to understand god and jesus on our level. it does not mean we are getting the correct interpredation of what jesus means, it is just for our limited intelligence.
so the jesus we believe in is possibly not what we think we believe in, that is what the thread starter is saying. but i for one will always believe in the bible version of jesus, because that is all we have, and i want to believe it is true.

I was given a bible for beginers the other day by a friend of mine who is a Jehovah's Witness.

I read through the book and found it very interesting. The most interesting thing in the book tho was that they claim that Satan is the true ruler of the world and has been in charge since 1914???

Anyone care to eleborate on this? as I find this interesting that people who worship God are saying that Satan is in charge of the world we live in?

alot of people believe the worlds population are being detached from god. so eventually all people who believe they are opening up to god etc.. will not be.

the world being run by satan, is to do with, satan having to do everything through technology to replace god on our level. they insist that we all will be controled, by technology means in the near future and the whole world will be run by these technologies. with regard to dates etc... when it all started we do not know.

also did not satan in the bible tempt jesus with the power to control this world, which jesus did not accept.

so with words like lucifer and satan, you can bring different meanings.

i like that saying in your sig about the best thing the devil did, was to make the population think he does not exist.

remember also that evil most probably had a birth day, an actual date when evil in man actually started, if you do not believe that we were created you may not believe that. thats your problem

[edit on 1-6-2006 by andy1033]

[edit on 1-6-2006 by andy1033]

I was given a children's picture bible when I was young and it depicted Satan in a loincloth with his buttcheeks hanging out

Earthscum thanks for the excellent thread. I am a Christian, but some of my beliefs tend to differ from mainstream Christianity.

Originally posted by Earthscum
Ok, first of all, I am anti-christian (for my own reasons...) I am NOT Satanic or otherwise. I am Agnostic.

I do not judge others, but thanks for being upfront and honest!

if I was the devil, and I wanted to decieve the world, what would be the best way? The answer to that question became pretty obvious to me... the ULTIMATE DECEIT! If I was Satan trying to influence the rest of the world, I would simply start with a few, convince them that I am God, or a holy man working in the name of god, and get the people to follow my lead in the 'name of god'. As soon as you have enough righteous few, they will readily convince friends, and then I would have an army. Who cares if I'm lying, right? That's part of the game.

Of course, once I have the army, I would convince them that they need to convert the rest of the world by whatever means possible, even death. If they won't convert, I could convince my followers that they should just kill the sinners while their souls are still pure enough to enter 'heaven'.

I would also take what is already in scripture, put what I want into a "compilation", and call it "god's law". What's better than taking something nobody is arguing with and just twisting it around to suit my own needs?

That was excellent! In fact it is Biblical prophecy. All of the prophecies of the Bible that deal with “end of days” scenario predict that this is exactly what will happen. The so called sinners, will be God’s people, but beacause of the abundant evil in the last days, their intoloerance of such behavior will be reason enough to convince satans followers to call them the sinners and dispose of them.

So, what I am suggesting here, is that christianity is based upon the lies of the devil. It's not what I COMPLETELY believe, but I do think it as a strong possibility, and I can see more convincing evidence every day I'm alive, sadly... that could be from peple straying from their religions, or other reasons... thus why I don't hold to it 100%.

Christianity in not based on the lies of the devil but it has been infiltrated by them. Christianity and the Bible have been used for countless ages to justify the actions of those who would oppress and control others. God is intolerant of anything that is not holy. His wrath and judgement are used to eradicated the unholiness of the world to protect that which He loves.

God loves us. He created us moral and holy. We allowed sin to corrupt that holiness. What is sin? Sin is anything we love more than we love God and would keep us separated from Him. This is why His Son had to be be sinless in order to die for our sins. When Jesus died on the cross, He conquered death and hell by raising Himself from death so that we could conquer death and hell if we believe in Him.

God views sin as a moral sickness that destroys His creation. If my child had a disease, I would do whatever was necessary to erradicate that disease. To God, sin is a moral disease that threatens to destroy His creation. He destroys that which is evil to preserve His creation. The coming wrath and judgement prophisized in the Bible is God’s protection of those who love Him. It is like cleaning out a swamp to protect people from disease.

I know how judgemental this sounds. Don’t shoot the messenger. The Bible says that God created this world and its inhabitants. God begs His creation to turn away from their own selfish loves and turn to Him. He gives a choice so that you are not taken by surprise by the consequences of your actions. His choice is to choose Him and live eternally in paradise or choose to live your life the way you want and suffer eternal damnation.

I had a real difficult time understanding this. I felt that God was trying to bully us into choosing Him. I felt that I should be able to live my life the way that I wanted to as long as I wasn’t hurting anyone. I felt that way while trying to explain to my children why certain choices were not good for them. I finally understood that this is what God is telling us.

God is the epitome of goodness and holiness. He is truth, beauty, and light personified. There is no room for evil in His creation. He will eventually destroy all evil so that His people will be able to live in His creation. This is why He begs us to repent so that we will be safe from His wrath when He destroys this sin that we love so much.

Without a spritual epiphany from God, I would never have understood His love for me. I had to be open minded in my search for spiritual enlightenment. When I actually felt God’s love, it overwhelmed me. I fell in love with God because He loved me. I took a real close look at my life and was not pleased with what I saw.

I am basically a very selfish person. I think it is hard wired in my psyche. I always think of myself first. I was appaled at how I had treated others due to my own selfish agenda. I was raised in a fundamental Baptist Church. I thought I was so much better that others because I knew the truth. I was judgemental of others who did not believe the same things I did. I took care of number one first and everything and everyone else be damned. I know that I have hurt countless people because of my selfishness.

But God loved me in spite of my selfishness. I still think of myself first. But I immediately think of God next. Sometimes I vent my frustrations, but most of the time I think of how God would want for me to respond. Because of my love for Him, I try to be more selfless and less selfish. It is a work in progress.

This is just my personal view. Each person should be allowed to make their own choice. I try very hard now to not judge others. This is the path that I have taken. If I am wrong, and the Bible is not what I believe it to be, then I have hurt no one.

Originally posted by Earthscum
Ok, first of all, I am anti-christian (for my own reasons...) I am NOT Satanic or otherwise.

First off, Satan wants nothing to do with "the name of God" or His book. And after reading your first post it struck me, unknowingly, you may be a victim of Satan's ultimate deceit. He has you not believing in Jesus/God, so in your life he has won. Think about it: in your own life, if you don't believe in or worship God Almighty then Satan has truly won the battle for your soul. Not trying to "thump" but it's blatantly obvious where you're headed if you believe in heaven and hell.

there appears to be an anomaly here, whereby an individual can assert with confidence the existance of satan, yet deny the existance of God.

Amazing....

faith in one, yet not the other, hmmmmm, what a hypocritical stance.

Originally posted by DodgeG1
I was given a bible for beginers the other day by a friend of mine who is a Jehovah's Witness.

I read through the book and found it very interesting. The most interesting thing in the book tho was that they claim that Satan is the true ruler of the world and has been in charge since 1914???

Anyone care to eleborate on this? as I find this interesting that people who worship God are saying that Satan is in charge of the world we live in?

Jehovah's Witness, huh? Oh boy!
Keep in mind they've only been a religion since the late 1800's.
They believe Jesus was not crucified, but hung from a stake....

Jehovah's Witnesses deny most of the basic doctrines of Christianity.
They claim:
1. Jesus Christ is not God. Rather, he is Michael the archangel.
2. The Holy Spirit is not a person, but an "active force." J.W.'s are unitarians, denying the Trinity.
3. When you're dead, you're dead. Man has no eternal soul, any more than animals.
4. Jesus returned invisibly in 1914. There is no "visible coming" planned in the future.
5. There is no hell. Just like animals, when we die, it is over.
6. Only 144,000 people achieve heaven. The rest, faithful Witnesses who have died, will be recreated on earth during the kingdom of the "New World."

Consumed with preparing for a "New World," they know nothing of "New Life" in Jesus Christ, and are largely viewed as a cult by most Christian religions.

There is no qestion in my mind that the element of dark has infected all religions with the exception of perhaps Buddhism, which isnt really a religion anyways but more of a way of being.

Back in the day the Christians were numerous and powerfull so I would guess if I were the prince of darkness I would target that one first, starting at the top of course.

I dont doubt any of this but I believe in God and If there really is such a thing as satan, then I for sure reject him.

Am I being duped here?

I think the most important thing is to just believe in something and to know that the soul is eternal.

Those are my 2 cents, lets see how much change I get back

[edit on 1-6-2006 by Census]

Originally posted by Census
There is no qestion in my mind that the element of dark has infected all religions with the exception of perhaps Buddhism, which isnt really a religion anyways but more of a way of being.

Back in the day the Christians were numerous and powerfull so I would guess if I were the prince of darkness I would target that one first, starting at the top of course.

I dont doubt any of this but I believe in God and If there really is such a thing as satan, then I for sure reject him.

Am I being duped here?

I think the most important thing is to just believe in something and to know that the soul is eternal.

Those are my 2 cents, lets see how much change I get back

[edit on 1-6-2006 by Census]

i agree here, people should believe in something spiritual.
with regard to dark forces etc... it only matters what the leaders of that religion believe in that matters, the lay people no matter what, will feed there energy though which ever group leads them. it is some sort of pyramid of power thing, where the people at the top have more knowledge, and the they use the forces and energies from the people at the bottom.
like what satatanists do, where the more satanists you get under you. people at the top of the pyramid use the forces and energy created by the people at the bottom of the pyramid for there uses, without those below them knowing this.

so whether you know it or not if you goto a catholic mass on sunday, no matter what you believe, you are working for whatever goals the vatican has and believes in.

[edit on 1-6-2006 by andy1033]

Satan is just the mental interpretation of that which appears to be ultimately negative in an individual.

We are satan, & satan is God, so we are all God...

peace

dalen

Originally posted by zerotolerance
First off, Satan wants nothing to do with "the name of God" or His book. And after reading your first post it struck me, unknowingly, you may be a victim of Satan's ultimate deceit. He has you not believing in Jesus/God, so in your life he has won. Think about it: in your own life, if you don't believe in or worship God Almighty then Satan has truly won the battle for your soul. Not trying to "thump" but it's blatantly obvious where you're headed if you believe in heaven and hell.

Agnostic... I do not take sides, because I think both sides are evil, by the nature of the people involved. Athiests are the ones who don't believe in gods and such.

From Dictionary.com - Agnostic

ag·nos·tic Audio pronunciation of "agnostic" (g-nstk)
n.

1.
1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.


adj.

1. Relating to or being an agnostic.
2. Doubtful or noncommittal: “Though I am agnostic on what terms to use, I have no doubt that human infants come with an enormous ‘acquisitiveness’ for discovering patterns” (William H. Calvin).

I tried to open this up to both sides as best as I could. I don't believe in a "god" by christian definition... nor do I believe in "satan" by christian definition. BUT, I do believe on a god and devil. Like someone said earlier, there are 2 sides to the spiritual realm... that is also my belief. Personally, I do not think the path of righteousness lies in a church of any sort, but rather within one's self and one's intent. It's basically relative. What I think is evil would not be considered evil by another person, and vice-versa.

Keep in mind here that Christianity, itself, is less than 2000 years old and wasn't really founded as such until quite some time after Yahweh had already passed away as a mortal. The Catholic church wasn't started until somewhere around 500 AD. Christianity is actually one of the newest religions on the planet, with the exception of the various 'spin-offs', such as Morman and, as previously stated, Jehova's Witness. Even more recent is Church of Satan (LaVeyism), which actually focuses on eradicating the perversions of the christian churches, while still keeping with the 'good moral' and 'good deed'.

I was not suggesting that the churches have been infiltrated, but rather STARTED by Satan, although that is a valid opinion, and makes the same sense. So far, so good... getting excellent feedback so far!

You said:

"Ok... I've been stewing over this for a LOOOOONG time now. I'm kinda riled up and in the mindset, so I'm gonna try something here...

Ok, first of all, I am anti-christian (for my own reasons...) I am NOT Satanic or otherwise. I am Agnostic."

lol Two things:

No Satan without christianity therefore Satan is prima facie innocent of all charges regarding any conspiracy by his imaginary personage of causing that which invented him to do anything including to deceive.
One possible exception is that the implication of backward time travel in quantum mechaincs is actually possible and old Satan used this technology to whup back and polute that which created him so that it might...conspire. NOT !

Another reason is that the writers of what became the christian bible plagiarized the Satan construct from the Greeks; everybody who reads already knows that. All the christians did was build a home for their Satan and name it Hell. They did this, however without the knowledge of pressure, plate tectonics and thermodynamics.

They did this most likely before the 1st Council of Nicaea by the chap hired by Constantine to “reconstruct” the “sacred texts” systematically destroyed by Constantine’s immediate predecessor and was therefore merely agreed upon by those in attendance. Interesting when you consider the attendees agreed on little else causing the "church" to be split into "East" and "West".

Finally, since you claim agnosticism, I leave you with a thought by Isaac Asimov on the one word difference between agnosticism and atheism...

HONESTY!

Glad I could help.

sayswho (skep by any other name)

Earthscum - christinaity is supposed to be a collection of all the religions before christianity was formed.

though i do believe in the bible and jesus, what jesus is or means no one knows in this world, we just all know something is there.

sayswho - time as its exists only exists in our 3d world. if our world is run by the spirit world then we can say that time is irrelevent in the spirit world(whatever spirit world means).


[edit on 1-6-2006 by andy1033]