Lobbying

Ok so heres my question/proposal completly end lobbying, make it completly illegal. No reform make it illegal. Now I realize it would be hard to catch somewhat, so we will make it a very simple program. If you company is involved in ANY lobbying what so ever you lose your corporate charter and the government auctions off the corporation to raise tax money and also to pay low level employees their retirement when elligeble. I see no reason to have lobbying what so ever all it does is corrupt public officials. No lobbying leaves politicans with only one master to serve, the people. So if you all could rip apart the argument as much as possible I would appreciate it. I need to see the weak parts, I hope to start a petition to end it in my state, (massachusetts). A democracy only works with its citizens being activly involved!

I think if there is to be lobbying it should be for Domestic purposes only. American Companies and American issues on US Soil. Foreign governments should discuss issues regarding their countries in a forum such as the UN.
I think there should be sweeping reform in the lobbying arena.

I have to agree with the author here.

Bring about the END of the legal bribery that is called lobbyism.. ASAP
Ive never liked lobbyism.. since it puts the needs of a special interest above the need for the masses.Of course there are some lobbying groups for things like human rights and environment... but we all know who the real lobby powers are.. Big business

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
Ok so heres my question/proposal completly end lobbying, make it completly illegal. No reform make it illegal.

You want to make it illegal for a person to talk to a congressperson?

If you company is involved in ANY lobbying what so ever you lose your corporate charter and the government auctions off the corporation to raise tax money and also to pay low level employees their retirement when elligeble.

That seems unconstitutional, to tell a person that they can't talk to a congressperson and try to influence them, merely because they are part of a corporation.

A democracy only works with its citizens being activly involved!

But if you outlaw lobbying, then you outlaw the public being involved.

Not that I disagree with you Nygdan, but, you must admit Lobbyism as at is now has become little more then LEGAL BRIBERY.

The reason IMO, that Lobbyism has become so tainted is, that 'ethics' and the 'environment'... and such always take a back seat to 'finance'. When you have a WHITE HOUSE STAFF that needs to take 'ethics refreshers'... you have a serious problem inherent in our govt. When acting as a public servant(which is what even our esteemed president is) it is PARAMOUNT to retain the highest ethical standards possible.

So unless this happens and our local,state, federal officials all adopt this kind of philosophy lobbyism will be forever tainted. Furthermore, lobbyism as it is no longer serving the will of the people(the masses, not the special interest which are almost always contrary to the needs of those said masses) and thusly must be outlawed or completely re-built.

thanks for you time

you can't outlaw lobbying as the right to lobby a congressman is in the constitution of the united states.

I agree, when I look at the professional lobbyist, I think, "You're really screwing everything up ya know?". But there is no way to get around it. To lobby means merely to go to your representative and try to convince him to vote your way on something. We can't restrict a corporation from sending someone to do this anymore than we can restrict an individual from doing it.

So we definitly can't outlaw it carte blanche. We can have reforms to the system though.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I agree, when I look at the professional lobbyist, I think, "You're really screwing everything up ya know?". But there is no way to get around it. To lobby means merely to go to your representative and try to convince him to vote your way on something. We can't restrict a corporation from sending someone to do this anymore than we can restrict an individual from doing it.

So we definitly can't outlaw it carte blanche. We can have reforms to the system though.

Reform IS putting it lightly

Once again though the corporations have ALSO got to take the lead in ;ethics' for lobbyism to ever be clean. As is all to often in reality ethics is not profitable. So really its a cycle of events that have to change in order for this process to function properly.

I wouldn’t outlaw the lobbies, I’d outlaw the congress making one cent off them though. If a congressman takes so much as one penny from someone outside his district it would be considered as taking a bribe. It’s the money they are after so eliminate the cash flow and make the representatives once again represent the people back home. Make it illegal for a congressman to work as a lobbyist after leaving office so they can’t trade in on their contacts. They cannot accept any reelection cash from anyone outside their own personal district.

Its time to make them represent the people that elected them and take the big corporations out of the picture.

Just my thoughts,

wupy

Originally posted by mrwupy
I wouldn’t outlaw the lobbies, I’d outlaw the congress making one cent off them though. If a congressman takes so much as one penny from someone outside his district it would be considered as taking a bribe. It’s the money they are after so eliminate the cash flow and make the representatives once again represent the people back home. Make it illegal for a congressman to work as a lobbyist after leaving office so they can’t trade in on their contacts. They cannot accept any reelection cash from anyone outside their own personal district.

Its time to make them represent the people that elected them and take the big corporations out of the picture.

Just my thoughts,

wupy

Not a bad start at all

anyone else have any other suggestions too add?

By lobbying I was refuring to it having to do with money, like Mrwupy said not a cent ever.

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
By lobbying I was refuring to it having to do with money, like Mrwupy said not a cent ever.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

also there would need to be MASSIVE oversight.

"Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people . . . to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

You cannot outlaw lobbying.

What you can do, though, is publicly fund election campaigns, and prohibit or severely limit monetary contributions to those campaigns from outside sources. Both steps must be taken, however. Unless you cut the need, donors will find ways to circumvent any campaign finance restrictions.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
"Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people . . . to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

You cannot outlaw lobbying.

What you can do, though, is publicly fund election campaigns, and prohibit or severely limit monetary contributions to those campaigns from outside sources. Both steps must be taken, however. Unless you cut the need, donors will find ways to circumvent any campaign finance restrictions.

quite true... I only meant outlaw lobbyism as it is now.. which translates into a complete restructuring. sorry for the confusion

and as far as your point on campaign contributions, I agree there needs to be some real overhaul there aswell.

Well any other thaughts about the subject? Im ganna start a petition on EthePeople soon. Also I was just pondering the fact about the rich getting richer, the very rich can live lavishly off of thier moneys interest alone. I think people should mostly make thier own money not inherit its. So what would you all think of a law that states any inheritence over a million dollars per person be taxed 50% this would only affect the wealthy and not even so much as to affect them much, But it would cut down the SUPER rich and would allow taxs on everyday people to be drastically cut.

I have to agree with Nygdan on this one we cant completely outlaw lobbying....I knowyou already got that just starting my case.

Lobbying serves a VERY important purpose....besides paying for golfing trips to Washington. Lobbyist groups are SUPPOSED to be representative of the people...so that Government can more easily understand the people's wishes...you try understanding what 1.5 million people all screaming at you are saying(1.5 mil was an arbitrary#)

However, public financing of elections is prolly the single best way to combat Lobbist corruption, that and bulldozing K-street(but thats just me ranting not being serious). While it would be nice to strip a companies charter and liquidate all thier assests thats WAY unconstitutional. Ideally, if a Lobbyist company were to violate the laws in regards the Government could bring about certain sanctions and or revoking Government Sponsorship or Subsidies but i think thats as far as it could go on that side of the fence.

The real problem though is not corporations...its people in government. They are in some/many cases unethical and occasionally quite immoral(Duke Cunnigham). If we instead punish those who accept the bribes I think we could totally undermine the whole problem. Fighting corporations is much more difficult then fighting a single man. Also alot easier to track. Itslike with Illegal immigration a fence doesnt stop the flow...but getting rid of the bait does. If we build a wall between corporate money and washington but don't get the rats out...all that will happen is that they will find newer more covert ways to scam the American People. But thats just my opionion.

Great Thread!!!!

well my problem with just the politicians is that after the whole contraversy about bribes from the Lobbyest(forgot his name) but the recent one only one person was busted yet a whole bunch gave back money and walked away without so much as a wrist slap. Plus i think a problem with that is if you did punish politicans they would begin trying to frame eachother if a punishment such as removing one from office. But then again opposing partys would make very good watchdogs with this. Elsenor any thoughts on the inheritance idea?

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
well my problem with just the politicians is that after the whole contraversy about bribes from the Lobbyest(forgot his name) but the recent one only one person was busted yet a whole bunch gave back money and walked away without so much as a wrist slap. Plus i think a problem with that is if you did punish politicans they would begin trying to frame eachother if a punishment such as removing one from office. But then again opposing partys would make very good watchdogs with this. Elsenor any thoughts on the inheritance idea?

I believe you were talking about the lobbyist, JACK ABRAMOFF. He was te biggest lobbyist in DC. And its people like this that show washingtons true colors.

I dont have the solution as to how to fix Lobbying; but dramatic changes need to happen.I may have been over zealous earlier saying it needs to be scrapped.. but it does need MAJOR overhauling.

I was speaking about John Abramhof that is who I meant. How many politicans gave back money? Caught red handed. What was their punishment? All they had to do was give it back. Personally I think they should be charged with treason.