What is Orgone Energy?

How do you communicate something to a group of strangers that is extremely important, but also completely unbelieveable?

I don't think that I can.

So I will just say this very brief version of the truth:

I experimented with Reich's work in 2004, basing my experiments on information from the FDA Complaint against him. There was a huge explosion (which I later realized was actually an implosion) although I did not use any form of energy in the construction of the device.

After a large shockwave, and other details there's no reason for me to go into, I discovered that certain metals within the experiment container had fused with other metals in a very odd way....a sort of accidental cold fusion, if you will.

Also confusing was that certain metals appeared to be suspended half-in and half-out of glass...without breaking the glass.

At one point, I began placing smaller versions of the OA's near cell towers (which I suspect are sending out signals to interfere to our brain waves as a means of behavioral control).

An agent with the Department of Defense then arranged a meeting with me and inquired about my interests in cell towers.

There's really no point for me to continue, so I won't. But the message I want to convey is that orgone energy is very, very real and the DoD gets upset if you place any orgone devices near arrays of cell towers.

Make of that what you will. That is all I have to say on the matter.

Please note that I have left details out in order to be brief.

Anonymous

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Sounds pretty important, your experiment.

And pretty scary too. You obviously ruffled some feathers with your research!

Would like to know more, but understand why you must be semi brief.

Originally posted by The Cyfre
It appears that Wilhelm Reich gained initial notoriety with research related to the orgasm, that subjects were considered "orgastically potent" if they had the ability to have a total and complete orgasm where they give up control of their bodies during said orgasm.

I'm not sure what this has to do with orgone energy, but perhaps we create and/or expel this energy when we orgasm. I don't know.

Have you read any of Reich's writings yourself? I think it's important to go directly to the source.

As i said in an earlier post on this thread, I would say that orgone and chi are pretty direct equivalents.

Further, although he himself would be horrified to be told this, Reich's model of what a human being is bears astonishing similarities to the grosser physical levels of the Taoist model.

Reich, if you recall, noted that chronic tensions were not merely symptomatic of, but functionally identical with, neuroses. When you have an unpleasant and formative experience as a child, you try to restrict the flow of orgone/chi around your being because it is the medium of sensation. If you're feeling horrible, and you damp down the flow of orgone, you don't feel so bad - or at least you can suppress those bad feelings.

You do this in two ways: by tensing muscles and making your breathing more shallow.

Over time these tensions become habitual and harden into what Reich called "character armour". He tried to dissolve this character armour to restore the flow of orgone. As the armour is dissolved, the neuroses, which are part and parcel of that armour, fade too.

Reich was a pupil of Freud and hence was influenced by Freud's emphasis on sex. He noted that the act of complete surrender to the sexual act was symptomatic or indicative of freedom from neurosis. He made a big thing of it.

T'ai chi and its meditative counterpart chi gung emphasise relaxation and correct physical alignment (the latter rediscovered by F. Matthias Alexander, inventor of the technique that bears his name.

If tension restricts the flow of chi, relaxation obviously restores it. If chi/orgone is the medium of sensation (and I have direct personal experience that suggests exactly that, backed up by corroborative experience of other practitioners), then relaxation and fuller breathing enables greater sensitivity and awareness of one's body. This, of course, directly affects one's experience of the sexual act.

A friend of mine who's done a lot of chi gung meditation and has also read Reich has attested to Reich's dictum that "a good orgasm is worth six months of therapy".

I can attest from personal experience that chi gung practice can increase one's capacity for feeling, and this does obviously carry through into sex.

It's also worth noting that Taoism, unlike many other religions, has no fake morality about sex. Indeed, there are meditative practices that are intended for use within sex - but it's important that they are NOT performed until the practitioner has mastered certain ways of managing their chi flow. It's not a moral thing - it's just a practical matter. Sex causes very powerful orgone/chi currents and chi gung meditative practices intensify this. If you combine the two without being ready, you can almost literally blow a fuse.

I have heard tell of someone who practised injudiciously and wound up spontaneoulsy ejaculating - without any sensation whatever - at completely random times. Sounds like something out of The Fast Show, but in real life, not funny.

If you have a twitch, for example, you cannot be orgastically potent. It makes no sense from a scientific standpoint.

That's because Western science consistently dodges what might be termed the "mind/body problem".

For example, people bandy about the term "psychosomatic" without ever really explaining how the body affects the mind. Likewise, the "placebo effect" is used to test the efficacy of medicines without a thorough understanding of what it is.

Western medicine regards a cure as ineffective if it does no better than a placebo. Placebos work on a principle of "suggestion"... if someone believes they've been treated with something effective, they're more likely to recover from what ails them.

When medical tests are done, no attempt is made to discover how suggestible people are. I would venture that this is a real factor in the success of any treatment - placebo or otherwise - on a given person. Therefore suggestibility should be taken into account in medical trials, although I admit that I'm too lazy and stupid to work out how.

More reading lead me down a dark road that focused more on the followers of William Reich

There are a lot of loonies out there. However, the anonymous poster above this seems to a) be pretty sane but b) to have had experiences that bear out what some of the loonies have been saying.

I've read accounts that seemed like the sheerest paranoia, but I do take account of the way people express themselves - and the anonymous poster strikes me as sober. Therefore if they say that the feds seem to take account of people experimenting with orgone devices near cell towers, I'm inclined to believe it.

Go back a few posts and check out the link I posted to the lecture on Reich and UFOs. There is information there that will tie some of these threads together.

it wasn't necessary in order to learn about the energy itself!

Honestly, if you really want to find out about this, I recommend finding a good t'ai chi teacher. Do the practice. It may take years, but it will benefit you physically and mentally, and sooner or later you'll start to have direct experience of what this is all about. Until then your understanding will at best be intellectual, which will only take you so far.

I'm still open to the idea but in the spirit of the Superbowl, Orgone is at about 4th and 36 and they're down by 6!

That may be because you're looking in the wrong places for information and don't have the tools to evaluate it with.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by rich23]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I think we'd all like to know more about this, but I understand your reticence.

I detest the terminology that's sprung up around the more recent practitioners who think of themselves as following in Reich's footsteps. All that "holy hand grenade" rubbish. However, your post does bear out what those people have reported in their excitable and irritating ways.

As I said in my previous post, check out this videp:

video.google.com...

reply to post by rich23


Please be aware that I haven't finished researching the issue at hand, and I haven't made any decisions as to the validity of Orgone. Consider it a status update! I appreciate what you've brought to the table and I look forward to having a nice intellectual debate. =)

reply to post by The Cyfre


That explanation certainly looks legit to me. I nevertheless maintain the system is still increasing in order, the spike follows a streamline parabolic from the surface and continues in a straight line...even if at an angle!

I described orgone as a force that tends towards order, and we can see how this hypothetical force behaves, but it still does not tell us what it is.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Why on Earth would the gubmit' get upset when you place OAs around cell towers...

um...could it be because they can lens the atmosphere to direct harmful EM radiation?

But cell phone towers are digital, so they work line of sight. Supposedly.

We are not strangers here. As you can see, the lot of us are quite sharp. Sharper than an ice spike

Some extra thoughts that may be useful in this discussion....

In writing about his therapeutic work - a technique he termed vegetotherapy - Reich noted myoclonisms - twitching or shaking of the limbs - would occur as character armour was loosened.

Similarly, when practising standing t'ai chi or chi gung meditation, shaking, particularly in the thighs - can often occur. My teacher compares it to "water knocking in the pitpes" as it tries to flow through a plumbing system.

It might be worh noting what happens to Quakers. They sit quietly and wait to be visited by the spirit. They, quite literally, are apt to quake.

I see a connection that seems pretty obvious to me. Others might have reservations.

Speaking of reservations...

I really like what you said about not being strangers...

Originally posted by Matyas
I am now pretty convinced that orgone is not energy, but a force that tends towards order.

Reich noted that orgone disobeyed the second law (rule, I think, rather than law!) of thermodynamics in that it tends to be antientropic - heat dissipates, orgone does the opposite.

However, this is not the same thing as tending towards order.

Let's be honest. All of us here are trying to make sense of the experiences that life has presented us with. None of us have too much of an idea of how to fit this into a scientific framework that rejects the idea out of hand.

I prefer to use the term chi to orgone or "energy" for several reasons, the most important being that "energy" has a fairly specific meaning in Western science. Chi also has a fairly specific range of meanings in Chinese culture.

I strongly suspect that there are a variety of mechanisms at work, and it might be useful to try to distinguish them where possible.

The Chinese differentiate, for example, between "biological" chi and other kinds. I'll try to put it another way.

In the Taoist model, people exist on eight different levels, each of which has a corresponding type of chi. As you progress through these levels the kind of chi you're dealing with becomes progressively more rarefied. In fact, the Taoists assert that there are eight bodies, each composed of a different "density" of chi, each slightly larger than the last, until the final chi body is pretty much the size of the universe.

The first level is the physical body we all know.
The second level is "biological" chi which animates the physical body.
The third level is the "emotional body".
The fourth is the "intellectual body".

Taoists on a spiritual path begin with t'ai chi because it's recognised that you need to get each of the bodies sorted out as far as possible before you move on to the next.

As I've already said in previous posts, referring to Reich, emotional difficulties are anchored in (or, as Reich would put it, "functionally identical with") chronic physical tensions. What Reich referred to as orgone is the equivalent of "biological" chi.

Taoist meditation - which includes t'ai chi as a foundation practice for everything else - is intended to remove blockages in each chi body. You work on the physical body. You release tension, which improves the flow of biological chi. But this can bring up the emotions that the tension has suppressed, which then have to be worked through. There are techniques to deal with this. Gradually, you sort out your physical, "bio-chi" and emotional body, and that allows you to gradually work on the intellectual body too.

You have to do a lot of work on the first four levels before you move on to the fifth level.

Why?

Taoists refer to the fifth level as "the psychic body" ( a rough translation).

This is a level at which non-local information becomes available. The trouble is, there's a lot of meaningless and nonsensical information there, plus there seem to be entities that can operate on that level that like messing with people's heads.

You need the emotional and intellectual bodies sorted out before you start operating at this level so you can differentiate between true things and false. If you start trying to operate at that level before you're ready, Taoists maintain you'll start to fall into delusion.

This, personally, explains the fact that a lot of people getting into this stuff are nutters who'll believe anything and are often paranoid.

I would venture that those examples we've seen in this thread where people are talking about "order" are actually to do with the fourth level of consciousness. People are pattern- making animals, and I'd suggest that order arising, whether it's from the kind of geometric patterns posted earlier in the thread, or whether it's ice crystals growing in a particular way, is acting on this level and not on the level of biological chi.

I'm sure I've seen references to some Japanese guy who's been talking about "the consciousness of water". It's too late to start grubbing around the Net for that stuff - I really must go to bed. Another day, perhaps.

The foregoing is a clumsy and long-winded way to try to say that "orgone" is biological chi in the Chinese model, whereas other phenomena that posters are bringing in relates to other levels of chi but NOT to orgone specifically.

Just a thought.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by rich23]

reply to post by rich23

Well, check this out:

Phonons are actually a class of particles called bosons which are...

FORCE CARRIERS!

And from Wiki:

According to thermodynamics, when the lattice is held at a non-zero temperature its energy is not constant, but fluctuates randomly about some mean value. These energy fluctuations are caused by random lattice vibrations, which can be viewed as a gas of phonons. (Note: the random motion of the atoms in the lattice is what we usually think of as heat.) Because these phonons are generated by the temperature of the lattice, they are sometimes referred to as thermal phonons.

source

Your ghost in the machine! And just what the hell are they ghosting? Try this!

The importance of the Brillouin zone stems from the Bloch wave description of waves in a periodic medium, in which it is found that the solutions can be completely characterized by their behavior in a single Brillouin zone.

source

Now look at the lattices that can form from Brillouin zones! Up to nine lattices for starters!

1. simple cubic (sc)
2. body centered cubic (bcc)
3. face centered cubic (fcc)
4. orthorhombic simple
5. orthorhombic base centered
6. orthorhombic body centered
7. orthorhombic face centered
8. tetragonal simple
9. tetragonal body centered

source

So there it is. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

reply to post by rich23


Oh, and I can appreciate what you just posted up there too.

Well, looks like we got the physical defs. out of the way. On to biological, do you say?

I suspect we are still very much at cross-purposes. All the examples of phonons you cite are to do with wave motion within crystal lattices.

This may have something to do with those properties of crystals that people get all excited about (I'm an agnostic on this - I have little direct experience) but I don't get how this maps to what we've been discussing.

It's something to think about though, and I didn't know anything about phonons until reading your links, so thanks for that!

I think the point at which consciousness and matter link is going to be absolutely central to any attempt to link "orgone" to our conventional physical model of reality.

It's worth remembering (it's mentioned in the lecture I linked to) that Reich's demonstration of orgone's physical reality relied on a phenomenon he termed tO - t (pronounced "tee-oh minus tee"). Orgone entering an accumulator but unable to leave gives up its kinetic energy as heat. This means that in two containers of identical thermal properties of which one is an orgone accumulator and one is not, there will be a temperature difference, where tO is the temperature of the orgone accumulator and t is the temperature of the control container.

This difference tends to be more pronounced on dry, bright days. Am I remembering this wrongly or did you suggest that one of the effects you were looking for might be more noticeable on damp days?

As I say, I think it's important that we don't confuse the issue. And please don't think I'm attacking the validity of what you're saying... just that so far I'm not sure that it relates to what I know of orgone as defined by Reich and relating to my own personal experiences.

What you posted does remind me of something else I've seen recently, which I think is important - but not directly to do with orgone. I shall have to hunt for the link. Don't hold your breath! But it's to do with interesting new developments in physics that bear a rather fascinating resemblance to sacred geometry and certain thought-forms, most notably the merkaba.

I'll look around, but I didn't bookmark the damned thing. Like I said, don't hold your breath.

OK found it.

See what you think:

video.google.com...

Originally posted by rich23
I suspect we are still very much at cross-purposes. All the examples of phonons you cite are to do with wave motion within crystal lattices.

Oh, but of course! There cannot be a synthesis without the thesis and antithesis! And you are right, but mind you, I have just shown how snowflakes form! Those are crystal lattices.

This may have something to do with those properties of crystals that people get all excited about (I'm an agnostic on this - I have little direct experience) but I don't get how this maps to what we've been discussing.

Well, the ice spikes for one. And my insistence that orgone is a force. And we found that heat conduction in atmosphere is the same as the speed of sound, which tells us what lengths the pipes (heat sinks) for the CB must be.

It's something to think about though, and I didn't know anything about phonons until reading your links, so thanks for that!

Of course, my pleasure

I think the point at which consciousness and matter link is going to be absolutely central to any attempt to link "orgone" to our conventional physical model of reality.

Even though pragmatic, those steps are interrelated as well.

Orgone entering an accumulator but unable to leave gives up its kinetic energy as heat. This means that in two containers of identical thermal properties of which one is an orgone accumulator and one is not, there will be a temperature difference, where tO is the temperature of the orgone accumulator and t is the temperature of the control container.

Familiar with it. Good experiment for skeptics.

This difference tends to be more pronounced on dry, bright days. Am I remembering this wrongly or did you suggest that one of the effects you were looking for might be more noticeable on damp days?

Well yes, but I have been wrong before. It won't kill me to admit it

As I say, I think it's important that we don't confuse the issue. And please don't think I'm attacking the validity of what you're saying... just that so far I'm not sure that it relates to what I know of orgone as defined by Reich and relating to my own personal experiences.

Oh, probably not. I didn't think for one moment we could cook up a Theory of Everything overnight! OTOH we are experiencing progress, having moved beyond the popularized New Agey buzzwords and concepts into advanced physics. But I know there is more, hidden in the other fields of science, and even the soft sciences such as the arts.

Our exchanges, have been, what, "rich"? I think so.

Originally posted by rich23
I think the point at which consciousness and matter link is going to be absolutely central to any attempt to link "orgone" to our conventional physical model of reality.

The more I read about orgone energy, the more it seems to support the idea that consciousness is able to interact and influence physical reality. I think in these cases, placebo's are much more than how western medicine has marginalized them. Mind over matter is perhaps the most powerful thing of all, but it gets second billing here in the states.

I've enjoyed reading about Princeton's research into Global Consciousness; perhaps it can be tied into this?

There's a really good book called The Field by Lynne McTaggart, which unfortunately I don't have. I can't even remember who lent it to me... however, it does mention the Princeton consciousness project and the non-random effects in RNGs.

One of the things I personally found very interesting was when the experimenters took the RNGs to Bayrith for the festival. They found that non-random effects were at their most pronounced during the most dramatic moments of the Ring cycle - those moments when "you could hear a pin drop". (Ok, so there was music going on that would have drowned out all but the heaviest pin, but you get my drift.)

In other words, non-random effects were at their most pronounced when everyone in the audience was really listening.

Now I'm a musician and the most fun I've ever had was when I was in a seven-piece improvising band. We worked quite hard on being able to play in such a way that people would think we'd pre-written elements of the performance, but it just came from listening really hard to each other. If someone played a good melody, we'd all hear it and jump on it, either by supporting it, playing it in unison, playing a harmony, or playing a responding counter-melody.

Of course you can only do this for so long before it gets boring. So we'd either harmonise it (the melody) more and more strangely until it got torn apart, or we'd have to change to something else. We did, over time, develop a rather spooky intuition for changing at the same time (without visual cues or being led by one person) and being able to instantly find common ground in the new direction.

Sometimes the changes would come unexpectedly, which was really exciting and spooky. It felt like when a flock of birds or a school of fish suddenly changes direction. (I heard an explanation of that phenomenon on a nature programme the other day that went something like, "each bird keeps tabs on up to eight of its neighbours". Hmm. Maybe. I'd like to really examine how that conclusion was reached, frankly: but because it came from a man in a white coat, it'll be believed.)

Anyway...

... for me, Taoism provides a useful model of all of these phenomena and more. However, that's not terribly useful in this discussion. To drag myself kicking and screaming back to the point, the title of the thread is "what is orgone energy?"

Now I have problems, actually, with the form of the question, because of that tiny but sneaky little verb, "is". I think it's time to post something that I've recently posted on another thread, but it's really useful when we start looking at questions like this: it's the concept of "E-prime", or English without the "is of identity".

www.rawilson.com...

In 1933, in Science and Sanity, Alfred Korzybski proposed that we should abolish the "is of identity" from the English language. (The "is of identity" takes the form X is a Y. e.g., "Joe is a Communist," "Mary is a dumb file-clerk," "The universe is a giant machine," etc.) In 1949, D. David Bourland Jr. proposed the abolition of all forms of the words "is" or "to be" and the Bourland proposal (English without "isness") he called E-Prime, or English-Prime.

I really recommend reviewing the link thoroughly - Robert Anton Wilson (of blessed memory) admits to finding the discipline tremendously difficult (and he had a lot of practice. However, this passage gives a good flavour of what we're talking about here:

Clearly, written in Standard English, "The photon is a wave," and "The photon is a particle" contradict each other, just like the sentences "Robin is a boy" and "Robin is a girl." Nonetheless, all through the nineteenth century physicists found themselves debating about this and, by the early 1920s, it became obvious that the experimental evidence depended on the instruments or the instrumental set-up (design) of the total experiment. One type of experiment always showed light traveling in waves, and another type always showed light traveling as discrete particles.

This contradiction created considerable consternation. As noted earlier, some quantum theorists joked about "wavicles." Others proclaimed in despair that "the universe is not rational" (by which they meant to indicate that the universe does not follow Aristotelian logic. ) Still others looked hopefully for the definitive experiment (not yet attained in 1990) which would clearly prove whether photons "are" waves or particles.

If we look, again, at the translations into English Prime, we see that no contradiction now exists at all, no "paradox," no "irrationality" in the universe. We also find that we have constrained ourselves to talk about what actually happened in spacetime, whereas in Standard English we allowed ourselves to talk about something that has never been observed in spacetime at all -- the "isness" or "whatness" or Aristotelian "essence" of the photon. (Niels Bohr's Complementarity Principle and Copenhagen Interpretation, the technical resolutions of the wave/particle duality within physics, amount to telling physicists to adopt "the spirit of E-Prime" without quite articulating E-Prime itself.)

The trouble is, adopting this discipline renders it impossible to say what orgone energy IS, obviously.

I might, however, say something to start the ball rolling, like,

Wilhelm Reich posited a form of energy which he termed Orgone to explain various phenomena he encountered in his clinical practice, and devised experiments to study it and apparatus to produce effects by using it.

Reich's formulation seems to me to bear close similarities to what the Chinese term "biological chi" and similar concepts in other cultures. The dominant culture of Western science rejects the notion, however, and those scientists who propose it are often persecuted by their peers.

Because of this prejudice, although others have replicated Reich's work, the data is rejected.

Others have since worked with the concept of orgone and have developed other tools with intent to manipulate it.

Ok... I have to think some more about this, that's enough e-prime for now.

Observations about the role of water in all this...

First, human beings - and to some extent all living things - are mostly water.

Second, Reich used water extensively in his work with orgone. He posited/observed two distinct states of orgone that differed from its natural state: XOR, or "excited orgone", which I don't remember too much about (I'll have to go back and re-read this stuff when I have time) and DOR, or "deadly orgone". Both of these states are harmful, according to his observations.

In what became known as The Oranur Experiment, Reich put a small amount of radioactive material inside an orgone accumulator. The effects were catastrophic. People in the labs got sick, and even the stones of the building in which the lab had been sited became friable.

Reich's solution involved "drawing" the DOR away using metallic pipes with one end in running water.

He also used a similar technique in cloudbusting: the pipes of the cloudbuster would often be extended to contact ground water (perhaps in a well) at the bottom end.

Tentative conclusion: water attracts orgone.

This, therefore, makes it easy to accept (if not understand, in the fullest sense of the word) that water might crystallise in the direction of an orgone-emitting device.

Now if you looked at that David Wilcock lecture I posted you'll note that a colloidal solution of sand in water falls into distinct patterns when sound is passed through the water - patterns reminiscent of sacred geometry.

Just a reminder - we are mostly water.

I think I'm going to leave it there for the moment.

reply to post by rich23


O-K, reviewed it.

I would give David an A for his grasp of and ability to communicate the big picture. The plan (their Plan) is not lost on me, see the Georgia Guidestones as evidence.

I would give him a B on his ability to explain the science. There are certain subtleties missing which would have been useful for me to tie in a logical progression.

I do believe he has touched on something radical, old, but still "hidden"...

fascinating overall, I will recommend it for my group.

reply to post by Matyas


The more I see of this guy, the more I think he's right on the money. I'd recommend going through the interviews he did with Project Camelot.

I think that first video we saw he had to rush through things. I suspect that if you check him out further your rating of him will go up.

I'm starting to really like what this guy has to say. It ties together a lot of things I've known about for a long time, felt were probably connected, but didn't have the knowledge or time to really work on.

www.projectcamelot.net...