Justice Officials Threaten Resignation Over Documents

The part of the Constitution that is being cited here is Article 1, Section 6:

The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

caselaw.lp.findlaw.com...

Emphasis added

It's also referred to as the "Speech and Debate" clause. It does not apply in Jefferson's case, imo.

I will admit to not being up on the law but is a bribe not a feloney?

Yes, a bribe is a felony. And this scumbag should be thrown in jail.

We trust our elected officials to do the right thing, and to vote according to their constituent's wishes and their own hearts. Not to vote according to their wallets.

we should really mark this thread down, because me an jsobecky actually agree on something

theres no foundation for there constitution arguement, they need to deal with it. Every american citizen has to deal with the american laws. Congressmen are citizens, so they will to...whether they like it or not.

This is causing such a mess. I think we've all come the agreement that they should be able to if they have a warrant. A problem that I am having now is, how far is this going to go? At the same time we do have a president that doesn't always believe that he needs a warrant to have some things done in the use of "national security." With that said, could this not lead to warrantless harrassment of the separate body of Congress, which is what these members that are protesting might be thinking? It makes matters worse since this is election year. I am betting that this would all be over with from every side if it wasn't an election year.

I am just talking hypotheticals, but it does not go beyond the realistic scope of current affairs in the U.S.

This raid took hours and the FBI obtained mirror copies of hard drives, documents, contact lists etc.

These documents and the hard drive data will not only show what Jefferson was up to, but may reveal just how dirty congress is collectively.

There is most certainly a power struggle going on.

We have to remember that Bush blamed the FBI and the CIA for 9/11 intelligence failures and
innacurate intelligence on Iraq.
Many highly respected, top level personel have resigned in protest already.

Now with Hayden's appointment to CIA, it's not difficult to see that Bush is trying to
stop a revolt from within.

We've already seen that the Abramoff scandal has had a Domino effect on Capitol Hill.

I have a strong feeling that Bush's defense of Hastert is self motivated.

The documents seized are hard evidence, something this administration has avoided at all cost.

Fortunately, the FBI has already seen what they need to see, so they know where to look next.

It makes matters worse since this is election year. I am betting that this would all be over with from every side if it wasn't an election year.

Honestly, I think its better this happens in an election year.
I think (hope anyway) it will make more people consider voting for third party candidates. The more the entrenched parties defend Rep. Jefferson and condemn the legal actions that the FBI used, the worse it makes them look.

theres two scenarios here and they both worry me.
1) the congress speakers and those outcrying have personal goals to get these documents back because of ties. They are calling seperation of powers, knowning damn well, the FBI was in the right. They are doing this because they need to cover their own ass.

2) These congressmen dont even understand the constitution. They may not have even really read it. They may have read it and have no clue what it means, nor care to understand it. This would not only mean that they are making laws, not knowing the foundations of our countries rules, but that the voters are voting in people that have no interest in what america is suppose to stand for.

both are equally disturbing and really need to be addressed. I think its time for a major political change in office.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
both are equally disturbing and really need to be addressed. I think its time for a major political change in office.

I find both of those to be disturbing, but I also think they got to where they were with at least half a brain, so I find your first scenario to be much more possible. My other initial worry along with this theory is that there must be a reason why Cheney's office would go along with the Congressmembers in this fight. Something he possibly doesn't want to see out either?

its called the domino effect. would you really be that surprised to see cheney in the headlines for corruption. this is just the first domino, and cheney's group is one of the dominos in the line.

This would not only mean that they are making laws, not knowing the foundations of our countries rules, but that the voters are voting in people that have no interest in what america is suppose to stand for.

Unfortunately, thats the way it works.

Voter usually vote for the politician who best fits their personnal agenda.

Politician A. to voter "Vote for me and I'll ban guns"

Politician B. to voter "Vote for me and I'll ban abortion"

Politicians to each other, "vote for my bill to ban guns and I'll vote for yours to ban abortion"

Probably not a perfect example, but hopefully you get my point.

I get the impression that Gonzales and Mueller have talked to Fitzgerald enough to know what side they should be on at the moment.

Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
I get the impression that Gonzales and Mueller have talked to Fitzgerald enough to know what side they should be on at the moment.

Chills down my spine. Thanks

I think the papers should go to the FBI. I think there are a lot of people implicated in things going awry, and that this is going to cause a precedent of untouchable authority within Congress if it is allowed. I don't want that, so fall where they may, it's time to see the house of cards fall. I read somewhere vague threats that this would be taken to the Supreme Court if necessary. If that precedent is set, the separation of powers will be changed in a very bad way.

It sounds to me like everyone hear does agree that this needs to be carried through to an end in the corts. I dont know how much this will mean to all of you but if you write the executive branch and your state reps. and tell them your thoughts on the matter, just maby it might have an effect.
hears an adress to do that.

www3.capwiz.com...

or better yet you could give them a call also.

Originally posted by niteboy82
I read somewhere vague threats that this would be taken to the Supreme Court if necessary. If that precedent is set, the separation of powers will be changed in a very bad way.

The SCOTUS may ultimately decide whether the speech and debate clause applies here. What is wrong with that? There are some excellent Constitutional scholars on that court.

How would the separation of powers be adversely affected then?

Originally posted by jsobecky
The SCOTUS may ultimately decide whether the speech and debate clause applies here. What is wrong with that? There are some excellent Constitutional scholars on that court.

How would the separation of powers be adversely affected then?

There has been a raid on the judicial system before by the FBI on a federal level. Therefore a precedent has already been set, in my opinion as an American citizen. William Frist (Republican Majority Leader) believes that the FBI has acted within their bounds. This is just a cat and mouse game to run around.

I'm surprised that we are mostly agreeing with each other on this. Jsobecky, this doesn't occur for us often.

After a week of bipartisan outrage over an FBI raid on a congressman's office, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist weighed in yesterday, saying that he was "okay" with the search and saw no constitutional problems with it.

source: Washington Post

Here is an article I found showing there is some congressional support at least upholding the FBI's raid. There is some logic left, and I have a feeling the ones that are giving the go ahead are the ones that either have nothing to fear, or are really good at hiding their wrongdoings. Always the cynic, I know, sorry.

If Gonzales, Mueller and McNulty have threatened to quit over this, it's pretty clear that this
is something big.

Bush and Cheney are out of control and walking a very thin line teetering on impeachment.

Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
If Gonzales, Mueller and McNulty have threatened to quit over this, it's pretty clear that this is something big.

Bush and Cheney are out of control and walking a very thin line teetering on impeachment.

Not sure exactly if that is it, but I am going nuts trying to figure out what is going on. Though the solution is simple as I think we have all agreed upon so far. There is something terribly wrong with this. There is an aspect we're not getting and I can't put my finger on it.