what is the REAL reason behind nuke test bans ?

While reading Carey Sublette's extremely comprehensive material on the Physics and Engineering of Nuclear Weapons (www.stealthskater.com...), I came across an interesting tidbit. Although these "secrets" are known to all serious researchers with no active security clearances, it seems that there is a core set of "related" information that requires a Department-of-Energy "Q" clearance. It is puzzling as it appears that all of the designs have long been worked-out and it's just a matter of brute-force engineering to produce the needed materials (see www.brotherhoodofthebomb.com... to learn the history of nuclear weapons from Lawrence's Betatrons to Oppenheimer/Grove's Manhattan Project to Teller's radiation-implosion miniaturized fusion warheads).

I will put myself out-on-a-limb here and speculate that this top-secret knowledge base has tie-ins with UFO activity&purpose. I've long suspected that much more happens during nuclear weapon tests than has been described in the common physics and thermodynamics. I think there is damage being done to other realms/dimensions/universal-consciousness � whatever you want to call it. Throughout decades UFO sightings rise with the number of tests and decline accordingly. Sort of like a (warning) sign of displeasure (perhaps "they" know revelation will upset the government's ability to govern). Today it's almost a major-league "No-No" for a country to conduct a nuclear test of any substantial yield.

Our current mathematical models may be just subsets of a much greater theory. If you believe the rumors, the ET-government back-engineering program was to bring our scientists up-to-speed on these new advanced theories -- which were unlike anything in their conventional academic training -- as well as modifying available Earth substances to approximate the alien materials. If the above is true, then it is no surprise that the agency that controls all UFO-related projects is the Department of Energy ("Q" clearance and all its embedded "levels" above the basic-Q). And why rumored alien artifact are stored in nuclear weapons bunkers. (Granted, the NSC/PI-40 group -- formerly MJ-12 -- may be overseeing this part of the DOE as follows �

www.drboylan.com... -or- www.stealthskater.com... :
"� RB: In the analysis of the Space Defense Initiative org chart posted on Skywatch, there is identified the "1010 Special Security Squadron" which bypasses the Air Force and reports directly to the National Reconnaissance [UFO Cover-Up] Organization and to MAJI [MJ-12, UFO information policy group]. Is this specialized squadron composed of elite Delta Forces (Black Berets)? � 'Ultimate' as in classified Ultra Cosmic Top Secret, Q clearance, level 33?

� SW: Note: Cosmic Q, level 33 is MAJI; level 32 is MJ-12; level 31 certain personnel in AC [aircraft] mfg.; Level 30, the first 4 of W[h]ackenhut Officials. etc., DOD, NSC. I was only a level 27....as far as I could go. �"

www.swa-home.de... -or- www.stealthskater.com...
Former NATO SHAPE attach� Robert Dean frequently mentions 'Cosmic Top Secret' as the highest security clearance that was in NATO at the time he served.

www.stealthskater.com...
"� 3. Lazar�s Clearance Level: he says neither REECO (Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Co., Inc.) nor EG&G � each a well-known U.S. Dept. of Energy Test Site contractor � has their representatives at S-4 (unless they are in-turn subcontracted out to a Federal agency like he was). The typical REECO or EG&G worker can get a maximum clearance of �Q�. Beyond �Q� it is highly compartmentalized on a need-to-know basis, with the highest level being around 34 levels above �Q�. His own level was 28 levels above basic �Q�. The closest to S-4 that a �Q�-clearance worker gets is Area-51. �"

www.drboylan.com... -or- www.stealthskater.com... :
"� Wolf says that "President Clinton does not know much about Area 51. And he does not know about S-4", [the supersecret underground installation 13 miles south of Area 51 at Papoose Lake, where Dr. Wolf did some of his research.] He added, "The President has ABOVE TOP SECRET and Need To Know clearances, but does not have the UMBRA ULTRA TOP SECRET clearance to have access to upper-level MAJIC [MJ-12] secrets, and KEYSTONE [ET research] documents."

Like many federal bureaucracies, MJ-12 has tripled in size. Wolf reports, "It now numbers 36 members, including [former Secretary of State] Henry Kissinger and [father of the hydrogen bomb] Edward Teller. MJ-12 meets at various confidential locations, including the Battelle Memorial Institute [at Columbus, Ohio]." As an aside, Dr. Wolf confirmed that it was Dr. Edward Teller who recommended physicist Robert Lazar for his position at the secret S-4 government base south of Area 51, where Lazar helped on back-engineering the propulsion systems of extraterrestrial spacecraft. � "


[On a personal note, in 1986 I was offered a job by Battelle as a programmer at a jet engine testing facility at Wright-Patterson AFB. The Air Force had problems with the F-100 engine producing too much smoke (among other things). The engine tests were managed in real-time by 6-or-so MODCOMP process-control computers which were themselves "supervised" by an IBM mid-size computer. Because of my earlier jobs as a scientific programmer at a large chemical corporation R&D center, I had experience with both machines. The job only required a standard-level "Security" clearance; and I had passed the preliminary background check to receive the offer (conditional upon my receiving the clearance in the future). I didn't take it at the time because I was 'single' and I didn't want to work the 4-to-midnight shift -- the Air Force had the lab during the day. (If I was 'married', I might have accepted to give me a good excuse to minimize contact with the wife!) But it was the first time I had ever heard about Battelle. They said it was against their charter to advertise in general commercial sector (I assumed that meant non-DoD). And among things, they told me they invented the photocopier which in turn they sold to the company that eventually became Xerox.) ]

I would have preferred you not post any links regarding what Bob Lazar or Michael Wolf has to say, but certainly they can be of some entertainment value (shame they aren't legitimate). It can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff regarding this subject.

UFOs, whatever they are piloted by, are absolutely enamored with our nuclear arms. They also like to show how much they don't want us using them.

Robert Jacobs, one of the best and most credible people to testify on this subject had his UFO experience over a nuclear missile ballistics test launch. The UFO knocked out the missile with some kind of beam and was caught on film doing so.

extraterrestrial-life.net...

Robert Salas, another great witness, was working at a nuclear missile facility when a UFO came by and knocked out several of the missiles.

www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk...

You also have the very real Bentwaters Air Force Base incident where UFOs were examining the secret nuclear arms located at the base.

www.thewhyfiles.co.uk...

[Edited on 21-10-2003 by heelstone]

Thanks for the links heelstone. I got alot of info from them.
It appears they don't want us to destroy the planet.
go figure.

Has anyone ever found a source to be 100% credible?

I doubt it. I personally know of a couple of instances where information was inadvertently broadcasted to the public only to be pulled (censored) immediately from the airwaves. "National Security" is not just preventing secrets from getting into the hands of a potential enemy but preserving a government's ability to maintain civil order among its populace.

I am of the opinion that if stories of UFOs and the like appear on the Internet, they are allowed to be there for some reason. Certainly they have been watered down with much dis- and mis-information for purposes of counter-intel or to guage the public's susceptibility. The key has always been to be "Sherlock Holmes" enough to filter out the facts from the fiction.

It is in that regard that I choose to relate stories from Lazar, Wolfe, Burisch, Corso, Nichols, Roswell, Delnagorsk, Pine Gap, etc. in the hopes that someone a lot smarter than I am can put all these tidbits together. I am sure those enlightened individuals exist in many governments. But sadly, it appears that such revelations would compromise "national security" concerns to govern citizens and we probably will never know the real truths.

An interesting spin came out of the Burisch never-ending saga (www.stealthskater.com... ). If the ETs are what we become in the future, then they have traveled back in time to prevent us from destroying ourselves, the planet, and -- in effect -- their own existences. This would coincide with what some Montauk proponents have said about us living in what would appear to be "an irreversible time loop". Corso closed his NBC "DATELINE" interview with a "time machine" remark that startled the interviewer. Dan Sherman (www.stealthskater.com... ) said his Project Preserve Destiny "comms" revealed they "evade" time but do not travel through it (since that was impossible).

I was interested on UNITEL's Macroscopic Quantum Tunneling (www.stealthskater.com... ) concept about using quantum mechanics to achieve teleportation (and thereby FTL travel) in the real macroscopic world (perhaps what happened in the Philadelphia Experiment). Now I wonder if such travel can be attained by "choosing" an alternate history (one of Tegmark's parallel universes) through a coupling between an advanced mental state and an appropriate psycho-reactive material (perhaps like Dr. Sarfatti's view of a UFO as being a "living machine"). That would explain the oft-mentioned "magic" that appears to perplex our best scientific minds and may be 300-1,000 years from our current technologies.

BTW, UK-based Tom Skeggs (www.stealthskater.com... ) was renting out part of the decommissioned Bentwaters base to build his advanced aerospace flight demonstrator. Tom is also a gifted remote-viewer and his "views" on Montauk can be read on the "PX.htm" page.

The frustration to extract any truths from all of these tales/legends/folklore prompted me to remark that it would take a "Sherlock Holmes" or a "Doc Savage" to figure it all out. When a reader asked me who "Doc Savage" was, it shocked me so much that I created an archive of all 181 original adventures (first created in the 1030s and then "modernized" in the 1960s) at => www.stealthskater.com... . They just don't write 'em like that anymore! ENJOY!!!

A Doc Savage fan, don't meet too many of those these days, nice to see though.

There is the very obvious reason for a ban on nuke testing, the USA does not want the devices in the hands of others. While this has not been entirely successful (N. Korea comes to mind) it did stop the spread that at one point was assumed would include every major nation on the planet.

I have often thought that part of the reason for the ban is the power of the weapons we can now produce. There were, as it turns out unjustified, fears that even the first abomb test would do massive harm to the planet. As time passed I think those fears became closer and closer to reality.

I suppose it is all in your point of view. For some the UFO events that are tied to nukes means that 'they' do not want us to use them. Personally I see it more as interest, how could anyone observe this planet and not be interested in these weapons. Especially when you consider that the natural place for nukes is in space where they can be used not only as weapons but as tools. Having that sort of power should have lead to a more aggressive space effort.

It did for a while, but then we lost interest, supposedly. I do think that in the exploration of space the unknowns that UFOs represent has caused us to pull back from what what was the next great frontier.


A.T
(-)

I think it's actually much more simple. The simple fact is exploding nuclear weapons has been found to be very bad for everyone living on the planet.

Understand that in WWII the bomb was theory not fact, it wasn't until we dropped the damn thing on Japan that we realised what we had created.

The US government didn't have GI's sitting in foxholes with sunglass watching nuke tests in New Mexico because the united states had some sinister purpose in mind, we put theses poor dumb bastards out there because we didn't realise the monster we were creating.

Once we dropped the bomb, and then unfortunately the second bomb we truly understood the beast in the box. Allowing the full on testing of nuclear weapons on a global level would basically destroy the planet in fifty years or so.

The short of it is, humans are actually not that stupid, we're close...but we're not that stupid.

Spiderj

I will grant you that point Spiderj, but in the overall scheme of things I would put that at the bottom of the list. I agree with you, it should be at the top but I do not think it was, or is.

I am not aware of any effort to convince other nations that nuke testing would be bad for the planet. That does not mean it did not happen at all, but at the very least it was done quietly. I also think it was quite a long time before we really realized what a monster nukes really are. Eisenhower went through his presidency ready to use them, and makeing that publicly known. Some people have claimed this was just a bluff, but from my studies of the man I do not think it was.


oh, and just a comment about Lazar, Wolfe, etc...

It amazes me that the very same people who are so willing to shout "CONSPIRACY" are also just as willing to write off others who claim to believe as they do. I have listened to the problems with Lazar's material and so many of them are just so weak. There is a problem with his paper trail (so the government would kill and lie but the idea of destroying some school records of a man who went public is grounds to dismiss him?) so we cannot verify his background. Hey did you see the picture of the JET CAR he built, I am sure he learned to do that at some technical school and not where he claims to have gone to college.

As a means to protect themselves people have in the past mixed false information in with the real deal. From the point of view of those trying to keep the secrets this is a whole lot better than telling the total truth. They have someone point to the falsehoods in the testimony and blammo, the guy's name is mud.

There is not a single person who has been involved with UFOs that at some point or another was 'out of favor'. We raise them up, and then knock them down. We are our own worse enemies sometimes.

There certainly are agents of disinformation out there, but we outnumber them 1,000,000 to 1. So that means to me that most of the people who have been 'discredited' are not who we think they are. A full-on hoax is one thing, and quite different from what I am talking about.



A.T
(-)


[edit on 6/11/05 by Alexander Tau]

Originally posted by Spiderj

...Once we dropped the bomb, and then unfortunately the second bomb we truly understood the beast in the box. Allowing the full on testing of nuclear weapons on a global level would basically destroy the planet in fifty years or so....

Spiderj

The nuclear test ban treaty was a shrewd political move. The U.S. is the only nation with enough supercomputing power to simulate nuclear explosions. We can design, test, evaluate, and estimate the effects of nuclear devices with computer models alone. No other nation has near the capability we do. Russia and Britain are close, but are still behind us. Everyone else has to actually detonate them to see if their design works.

With a test ban we get to look altruistic and like a good global citizen, when in reality the test ban locks in our superiority and prevents anyone else from catching up.



BTW-- a little side trivia -- the basic algorithm (Rothermal's Spread Model) behind the computer software that firefighters use to predict the spread and intensity of forest fires was derived from early versions of nuclear explosion models.

Well,

I would assume nuclear bombs aren't good for anything. They destroy the land, and according to my mother (Senior Microbiologist), you can't inhabit that land for over 100 years. I guess that would be why. Also, (cheesy joke) they don't want godzilla running around town

Originally posted by Vinci
Well,

I would assume nuclear bombs aren't good for anything. They destroy the land, and according to my mother (Senior Microbiologist), you can't inhabit that land for over 100 years. I guess that would be why. Also, (cheesy joke) they don't want godzilla running around town

They saved lives during WWII. They prevented a global war for the next 40 years. As much as no one wants to admit it, the policy of M.A.D. did work. We had peace out of a fear of war.

Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the Bikini Atoll are currently habitable.

Besides, how else would Bruce Willis save the Earth from an asteroid?

Oh...about hiroshima.

This is something I heard from a person, which..Shouldn't be called a reliable source, but a source nontheless.


According to this person, the military leaders lied to the president, and told him Hiroshima was military based, not civillian. Someone should research that, currently i'm looking into a missle silo near my house. There are tons of rumors about it, I want to find out

According to this person, the military leaders lied to the president, and told him Hiroshima was military based, not civillian.

I am reasonably certain that was not true. A whole lot of maps would have to have been wrong for that to work just for starters. We bombed so many Cities at that time, and ultimately the President approved them all. The level of destruction was far more than anyone understood until it happened.

Vinci,

In space nukes could be a powerful tool, and a reasonble weapon, they just do not belong on a planet where things want to live.


A.T
(-)

In my opinion, the reason for nuclear test bans is to limit the saturation of our environment with radioactive particles. Billions of radioactive dust particles with every detonation, sullied ground water, sick animals and plant life, cancer clusters blowing on the breeze.

There's a good reasont to ban nuclear tests, no aliens required, IMO.

Of course I could be wrong.

I am also interested in Unitels quantum tunneling approach. I think this may be what happened in the Philadelphia experiment. I also like Tom Skeggs star chamber teleportation approach.

Originally posted by stealthskater
While reading Carey Sublette's extremely comprehensive material on the Physics and Engineering of Nuclear Weapons (www.stealthskater.com...), I came across an interesting tidbit. Although these "secrets" are known to all serious researchers with no active security clearances, it seems that there is a core set of "related" information that requires a Department-of-Energy "Q" clearance. It is puzzling as it appears that all of the designs have long been worked-out and it's just a matter of brute-force engineering to produce the needed materials (see www.brotherhoodofthebomb.com... to learn the history of nuclear weapons from Lawrence's Betatrons to Oppenheimer/Grove's Manhattan Project to Teller's radiation-implosion miniaturized fusion warheads).

I will put myself out-on-a-limb here and speculate that this top-secret knowledge base has tie-ins with UFO activity&purpose. I've long suspected that much more happens during nuclear weapon tests than has been described in the common physics and thermodynamics. I think there is damage being done to other realms/dimensions/universal-consciousness � whatever you want to call it. Throughout decades UFO sightings rise with the number of tests and decline accordingly. Sort of like a (warning) sign of displeasure (perhaps "they" know revelation will upset the government's ability to govern). Today it's almost a major-league "No-No" for a country to conduct a nuclear test of any substantial yield.

Our current mathematical models may be just subsets of a much greater theory. If you believe the rumors, the ET-government back-engineering program was to bring our scientists up-to-speed on these new advanced theories -- which were unlike anything in their conventional academic training -- as well as modifying available Earth substances to approximate the alien materials. If the above is true, then it is no surprise that the agency that controls all UFO-related projects is the Department of Energy ("Q" clearance and all its embedded "levels" above the basic-Q). And why rumored alien artifact are stored in nuclear weapons bunkers. (Granted, the NSC/PI-40 group -- formerly MJ-12 -- may be overseeing this part of the DOE as follows �

I think DOE is certainly tied into the scientific aspects of the UFO phenomenon. LANL and Lawrence Livermore, I believe fall under DOE. I recall a UFO case where material was sampled at LANL and never returned. Socorro NM ?

Q is a mundane clearance but there are multiple caveats around nuclear weapons information. For experimental technology, the classification must be high indeed.

I'm reading a book about anti-gravity systems by Paul LaViolette. There is a whole chapter about the "new physics". Basically black world scientists are already past the quantum/relativity divide. According to one insider from the book, the universe is composed of a type of ether. It's worth checking out. The author is a reputable scientist with good insight.

One thing I learned from the book is apparently the govt had "remote controlled" flying saucers decades ago. Steered and propelled by microwaves projected at the disc from a dish on the ground ! Apparently the secret was in the formula of the disc material and the frequency of the wave. "Secrets of Anti-Gravity Propulsion". Lots of other good info about Brown and the Philadelphia Experiment, which I'm starting to believe, in some form, really happened.

Originally posted by stealthskater'Ultimate' as in classified Ultra Cosmic Top Secret, Q clearance, level 33?

Cosmic Top Secret and Q clearance are redundant. One is military, one civilian.

Originally posted by stealthskater� SW: Note: Cosmic Q, level 33 is MAJI; level 32 is MJ-12; level 31 certain personnel in AC [aircraft] mfg.; Level 30, the first 4 of W[h]ackenhut Officials. etc., DOD, NSC. I was only a level 27....as far as I could go. �"

Unlikely. How does he know about other "levels" above him ? Isn't that against the whole purpose of compartmentalization ?

Originally posted by stealthskaterwww.swa-home.de... -or- www.stealthskater.com...
Former NATO SHAPE attach� Robert Dean frequently mentions 'Cosmic Top Secret' as the highest security clearance that was in NATO at the time he served.

It's the highest basic top secret clearance in NATO. There are SAPs and SCI compartments "above cosmic top secret", with much stricter need to know requirements.