The Green Fireball Mystery of New Mexico

Originally posted by nightwing

There really are not many left, but they tend to interact easier than you think by taking advantage of the camoflage.

Army Green? LOL (Sorry couldn't help myself ! )

Originally posted by nightwing

Part of it is knowing what and where to look and another part is being alert. And sometimes the smokescreen works so well that really, really good information is never even noticed because of the BS level maintained here and other places.

Right you are talking about Historical references ?






[edit on 18-6-2006 by lost_shaman]

"Right you are talking about Historical references ? " == lost shaman

Sure. And perhaps even an illustration of nearly uncorrupted raw data.

Back to the topic.

"If the data as reported by La Paz are correct, then we do have a strange phenomena here indeed. " == lost shaman

Maybe. At least he knew what to look for. Most folks can be relied upon only to report nada for data.
Lets take pilots as a starting demo. The really good ones develop a "situational" awarness of where they
are and how they are oriented. Now lets take an observer, Luke Skywatcher. He is average, and thus
has not even enough situational awarness to say anything about what he sees when he cranes his neck
at the sky. He might have an idea where north is, but if he sees a flash in the sky, you got "nothing" from
him for data. Wait a few years and he may speculate that he saw what could only have been an alien
thingy. You still got "nothing" but the tale grows taller on down the line. Sad but true, it is incredibly
EASY to be a good observer. ALL you need is a very basic "situational" awareness of where you are
and how you are oriented. This time, Skywatcher sees a flash in the sky. Knowing the basics, this "flash"
is sufficient for him to say it traversed the sky north to south (Descending node) making an angle of about
30 degrees with the equatoral plane.

Lets see how this could work for FireBalls. I remember the one I saw very well. I watch the sky a lot,
and sometimes have been out at odd hours for meteor showers. Only twice in my life have I seen such
that I HAD TIME TO FOCUS ON IT before it was gone. The first time as I focused on it, I realized
something else. Night vision means we do not detect colors in fast moving objects, as you cannot focus on them.
When you can, then your color vision is in play if it is bright enough and, of course, in living color. What I focused
on was distinctly green. Bright, but a distinct color. The color perception and focus ability has occurred in my experiance only twice
so I recall it well. Since I knew my orientation, it was moving south to north (Ascending Node) and between 25-30 degree angle
with the apparent equatorial plane. It would be nice to have even this basic data when Luke shows up to
report his Zeta scout ship sighting. But never happens. Why ?

Yup. I saw someone who said he was John Burroughs. So far, no one has disputed this, and thus, as for now, I believe it to be him.

I havent looked at the Rendlesham thread in a while, so I did not notice his presence there.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Originally posted by nightwing

Since I knew my orientation, it was moving south to north (Ascending Node) and between 25-30 degree angle
with the apparent equatorial plane. It would be nice to have even this basic data when Luke shows up to
report his Zeta scout ship sighting. But never happens. Why ?

I can't answer as to why this never happens with observers. If you simply want that basic data all you need to do is have the observer point to the sky so you can judge the apparent angle for yourself. That is how Dr. Nininger ( Dr. La Paz's contemporary ) claims to have got his information from poor observers.

www.nau.edu...

Let me give you an example. Here's a man, a college graduate, who's a successful businessman. He's running a garage, car sales connected with it, in a small town, but a good county seat in Eastern Colorado. This was back in the year 1931. And I had worked on a fireball quite some weeks, had it very well pinned down. I knew practically where it disappeared, at about what height it disappeared, and over what location. I got a letter from him saying that he had seen this smoke cloud that followed the fireball, from his place, and he thought I might like to know that from his place he observed the smoke cloud at the height of 75o above the horizon. I read the letter, and of course thought of it in terms of all the other testimonies I had. I had been over in the area where this happened, on all sides of it, and I knew he couldn't be right. I didn't tell him so, but I wrote back and said, "Will you please check that matter of height again? Seventy-five degrees doesn't agree with what I already have, and I thought maybe you didn't write quite the way you meant to. But please check it again and write me." He did, said, "I can't do any better than 75o above the horizon." I knew he was wrong, but I didn't say so. I waited 'til I happened to be in that community again, and I went over and called on him. I said, "Just for my records, will you take the time to go out where it was you were the night you observed this?" - or the day, it was a daylight meteor - "and I've got an instrument, we'll register the degrees as you remember them, on the instrument." We went out, he pointed out, and I knew he was way down around 10o-15o, instead of 75o, just by pointing. But I didn't say anything, I said, "Now, here's the instrument. You site it, and I will register the degrees." Ten degrees above the horizon. Now, there is a college-trained man, he's a good businessman, he's an honest man, but he never had any training in the thing that he's reporting on.

H.H. NININGER

Here I found a transcript from the Feburary 16, 1949 "CONFERENCE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA" , which is basically a lengthy Q & A session between Dr. La Paz and a Dozen other Scientists from Los Alamos about the Green Fireballs.

www.project1947.com...

There are many items of interests here , but something I found very interesting is a statement made by Dr. La Paz that on October 30, 1947 after a FireBall fall near the Four Corners Region was when he first noted intense interest on the part of the military in FireBalls!

Comdr. Mandelkorn: Do you think it unusual no fragments are found?

Dr. LaPaz: I certainly do. And I think it unusual, not only in the case of the green fireballs, but in view of the fact that a great fall, like the ..... fall of October 30, 1947, where for the first time we detected a bit of the interest on the party of the military, there too we recovered nothing. October 30, 1947, about 4:48 in the afternoon there was, what appeared to be, a tremendous meteorite fall over the reservation area - the Four Corners Area. We got there within a very few hours, had excellent observations, went back time and again, exhausted ground search, CAP people in airplanes, we had a radio centered, we had radio controlled jeeps and a lot of people out walking around - not a trace. I can't give you a color on that because .....

Comdr. Mandelkorn: Ordinarily, when phenomena of that nature occur, you are able to recover some material?

Dr. LaPaz: Yes, some material is recovered almost always. If proper search is conducted. We have, by the way, very thorough air search conducted by Gill Field Corps of Intelligence Unit; Dr. Lansberg of the Research and Development Board, very kindly interested himself in the problem and the air searchers resulted not even in the discovery of a broken branch.

This is important because it shows us that the Military was actively looking to recover something that they did not feel would be "Space Rocks" in the Fall of 1947. And Project Sign would not be ordered into existence until a Month after this on Dec. 31, 1947.

If we take it that Ruppelt knew nothing of these events , then we can only conclude that someone else was looking for something in 1947 and was not something Ruppelt had in his Files.


REMOTE CONTROLLED Jeeps!!! That sounds like something you'd deploy in 2008 , not October 1947 !

That is serious Military "FireBall" ( UFO ) Hunting if you ask me!


[edit on 19-6-2006 by lost_shaman]

Hey, hate to dig up dead threads...Thought you'd find this interesting.
This is a partial diary post of mine, but I thought it fits. Amazingly. lol.
"Mother had come to pick me up so I could cash my checks yesterday. I brought up a memory I had from California, back when I think I was around 10 (1994 or so). I believe this was the same trip that gave me the ‘sleepy headache’ -(explained in Blog tonight)-. We got up around 3 or 4 in the morning to leave to go on a long camping vacation. I don’t think there were any planned meteor showers (i.e. Orionids, Perseids, etc). I turned my head to the skies anyway, and off to the right of the house (as I was facing it), I saw a gigantic green fireball. Everything about it was green, and it was HUGE as compared to the meteors I’ve seen during showers. It did not head downward like many I had seen before (and now), it headed more to the right, more horizontal. I remember pointing it out to my parents, who did indeed see it and commented that it must have been a meteor, which I met their theories with disbelief, but silenced myself, I was only 10, what did I know? It stayed in the skies until we packed up the van and left, a good maybe 30+ minutes. I asked my mother about it yesterday. She said she doesn’t remember any green fireball in the sky, but remembered seeing a lot of shooting stars. I don’t remember seeing any shooting stars, only the green fireball. "

I'd like to add my own sighting if I may. I've mentioned it a few times around here but up until now thought it was a weird, yet natural phenomenon.

It was the summer of 2004/5 and I was on holiday in Cornwall with my family. A few kids, my brother and I were playing on the swings and it was nearly dark. I can't remember how I noticed it, but I did and we watched it for a few seconds before it disappeared behind the treeline. The only thing I found odd was that there was no sound or visual indication of an impact.

Now though, I'm fairly interested in what I actually saw.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Great post. I've always thought this was an intriguing and unusually well iinvestigated case with the real findings swept under the rug.

Flagness...

reply to post by Zanzibar


it? Can you elaborate?

reply to post by disownedsky


Why yes I can.

Basically, it was green (shock horror!), a fairly long trail and a white 'glow' around it.

I too can claim a sighting of a green fireball. At the time I considered it to be a remarkable but natural bit of atmospheric phenomena. Only recently have I become aware of Project Twinkle and the conclusions of Dr. Lincoln LaPaz which have made me rethink my sighting (and prompted me to share this on ATS).

The fireball sighting occurred in February 1987 at night in Pelham, Massachusetts. The fireball itself was larger than the moon and traveling from horizon-to-horizon, approximately southeast to northwest. It was mostly green, with some red tinges or flames. I think I recall a short tail of trailing flames (both green and red), but I can’t confirm that my memory is accurate about this feature. There definitely was no long tail or trailing sparks of any kind. The fireball seemed silent, but I observed it from inside a car with the windows up which may have prevented me from hearing any low or quiet noise caused by the fireball, if there was any.

The fireball was first spotted by my mother who was driving the car, who pointed it out to my brother and me (who were passengers in the car). I was in the front passenger seat. I estimate that it took 5 seconds or more for the fireball to traverse the sky and disappear over the north-northwest hills which made up the horizon.

Either the next day or the day after, the local newspaper (Daily Hampshire Gazette of Northampton, MA) had a story inside reporting on all the people in the area who witnessed the fireball. It may have been the very next day as the Gazette was an afternoon newspaper, but most likely would have been published in the edition two days following the sighting.

Interestingly enough, I remember a story two months later in the Boston Globe about a family in New Hampshire who witnessed a meteor the same night as the fireball we saw. This family saw the meteor land and found the impact site of the meteorite. The article said that they were excited about the find and brought the remains of the meteorite to a local university for analysis, but were supremely disappointed when the results of the analysis was that the object was terrestrial and contained no minerals or substances associated with meteoric composition. The university researchers became uninterested in the family’s find after that, dashing their hopes that they happened upon something of significance.

What was more intriguing to me is that the meteorite was found on the same night that I saw the fireball, yet the fireball was traveling in the wrong direction to land in New Hampshire. To my reckoning it would have come from over Rhode Island or eastern Connecticut and disappeared from my view traveling towards Vermont or the Adirondack region of upstate New York.

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Over time...since 1947, the power level of a green fireball shrouded foo fighter, might have technologically changed and advanced in time to a more powerful level of magnetically contained plasma --- such as the fiery reddish-orange fireball --- like the one I witnessed (in it's landing phase) in 1976.

Not to mention the more powerful plasma phase of a bluish-white plasma shrouded foo fighter in it's hi-power velocity phase.

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Over time...since 1947, the power level of a green fireball shrouded foo fighter, might have technologically changed and advanced in time to a more powerful level of magnetically contained plasma --- such as the fiery reddish-orange fireball

Green type's are still out there Erno. Like the theory though maybe there's something to it