The USA is dying

Originally posted by lombozo

The USA Is Dying

Ok, now that I have your attention, I have a legitimate question.
Is the USA dying?

...

i see it differently,

the present inclusion & open arm welcome of the former 'illegal aliens'
offering them (20 million 'thems') amnesty, working visas, or citizenship
is breathing new life into the U.S. economy dynamics.

those 20-40 million babies that were never born to American parents,
were to be the growth dynamic counted on for the USA to prosper;
tax, consume, inherit, and provide for the retired part of the population...
the migration from Mexico & other parts south, have filled that vacuum.

The USA is instantly invigorating itself, and causing a real change in the national profile & demographic...
let's just hope that some bumbling leadership doesn't mess up a good thing.

Originally posted by Violent

The urban household savings rate in China approaches 50 percent, compared to near zero for American families.

Who fares better in depression? A nation with a solid manufacturing and global trade surplus and savings? Or a nation with a declining manufacturing base, an ignorant populace, groslly inflated currency and trade deficits?

Look I agree that the huge trade deficit and debt are very real problems for the generations of Americans to come (thank you, Mr. Bush), however as for the savings go, Americans are known for their home ownership. This is often not included into the official savings numbers. You could say banks can default -- yeah, anything is possbile but I think this can be salvaged.

Also I agree that we are lacking in education. It's bad. However, you are writing off the American manufacturing base way too early. Yes, cotton mills in NC were cloed (only relatively recently) but sure as hell they can reopen if we lose cheap imports. Same applies to cole and steel.

Also, there is a gap in logic in your rhetoric question which I leave to you to ponder.

In short: instead of swapping cars every 3-4 year, we'll be maintaining them well enough so they last 10. We won't be buyng plasma TV and maybe skip a pizza at 2 a.m. or a $15 martini at an upscale bar. We may have to live on rice and beans for a few year but that's hardly lethal. Heck, we as a nation may lose some weight in the process No more twinkies for you, sorry, times are tough.

But no and no, we are not dying anytime soon.

Originally posted by lombozo
Truly, is there any way that the USA could go down? Is there any way that she could continue to be the country that she has been? Is it too late, or is it paranoia?

On this website it's mainly paranoia.
Outside this website it's mainly normalcy and everyone seems to feel fine.

Originally posted by googles bin hijacked

You all should be most concerned about those 52 missing nukes that disappeared off the black market. If you had them, you could control the world and nobody would ever even hear of you if you told them not to mention your name.

You all should ask yourself, WHERE ARE THOSE MINI NUKES?

I KNOW! OH YES I DO. I CAN PROVE IT TOO.

How about proving the mess you started yesterday. That thread is screaming for your return.

I remember a month or two ago there was an article in USA today (I think it was USA today) about several Federal Reserve officials speaking out about an economic crisis looming in the US if EITHER the trade deficit OR national deficit continue to increase at their current pace.

It's obvious that the federal government has no plans to do anything about either problem, not to mention the fact that a recognized enemy of the US - which is China - is buying larger amounts of US debt AND spending larger amounts of their wealth (obtained as a result of the trade deficit with the US) on their military.

History repeats itself in many ways and just as military spending brought down the former Soviet Union, so will the military industrial complex in the US as a result of the Iraq war.

It's just unsustainable economics all around (no Harvard PhD required)

I believe that China, India and other such countries gaining wealth is a good thing. Eventually, I hope, the people in those countries will come to see the "light" and begin saying, "Hey, I'm worth more than $1/hour!"

Other countries gaining wealth will eventually help the US and the rest of the industrialized world. Outsourcing won't be as rampant and companies will want to keep work here state side.

Of course, I am an optimist.

Originally posted by rotgeist
I have to agree, the country is dying.

The US is an empire. Empires fall. Babylon, Rome, Persia, USSR, Germany, Japan, etc. They don't last because they are not sustainable. This is a political, economic, anthropologic, and historical reality. It may take time, but it will happen. Especially considering after the fall of the USSR, we are the primary empire on the planet, this may be a hard fall (the bigger they are....).

See Jared Diamond's Collapse, also Crossing the Rubicon, and Chomsky's new one to see more....

Look for the next Empire to rise in the Middle East, it's already happening in the UAE, they are just waiting for the rest to join. There's already wealth there. They are sitting on the largest oil reserves and happen to have deposits of Uranium and other potential commodities to fuel future cities! All thanks to the US government and the corperations that undermined the people.

OK, first of all, there already ARE a multiplicity of governments that are switching to currencies other than American. Also, we have outsourced the steel industry, our car manufacturers are in deep trouble (General Motors, etc.) and the U.S. doesn't manufacture nearly waht it did several decades ago.

Our dollar, which used to be backed by gold/silver, is now backed by oil. We have made many enemies around the world in the last 6 years with our isolationaist, imperialistic policies. Many other nations would love to see the U.S. fall, as a result.

Add all this together, it doesn't look good. At all.

the word is yes but dont worry you go the way of russia and end up like china when you too populated.rules walls less freedoms it all comes with the way of human.when humans care for each other maybe will walk out of the dark ages.....

What if bush is smart? I like bush I think he is funny I don't even think heis stupid or anything how else would he be president of a country.And they don't put stupid people for jobs like that they get the best and smartest brightest usually.

[edit on 27-5-2006 by Hawaii_boy]

[edit on 27-5-2006 by Hawaii_boy]

What if bush is smart? I like bush I think he is funny I don't even think heis stupid or anything how else would he be president of a country.And they don't put stupid people for jobs like that they get the best and smartest brightest usually.

Ummmm, yeah. As I recall, and correct me if I am wrong however wasn't there a major controversy on both of the elections which brought Mr. W to the presidency.
Personally, I won't go so far as to say he's an idiot, but I would hardly call him a Mensa candidate. I think he has some pretty bright people behind the scenes which help him, but I think that ALOT of his decision making is herrendous.

If you look at our past, with the depression and all, we've been through a heck of a lot worse. So, no.

Originally posted by CaptainIraq
If you look at our past, with the depression and all, we've been through a heck of a lot worse. So, no.

Times were very different in our past. We were an economic power house manufacturing steel and durable good and exporting. Now we have a trade deficit and we make "happy Meals"

The days of the US being a technological giant are numbered with India and China snapping at our heels.

The US isn't dying, Yet; but there is a sickness and a malaise, coupled with an almost psychotic greed; that if not addressed will kill this country just like the same symptoms brought down Rome.

The tax system needs to be completely overhauled so that big government isn't encouraged to grow and the american people actually keep more of what they earn.

www.fairtax.org...

And there needs to be some kind of one payer health care system that doesn't penalize people for getting sick.

Any thing other than that and America is done. Better learn how to speak Manderain chinese.

Originally posted by Hawaii_boy
What if bush is smart? I like bush I think he is funny I don't even think heis stupid or anything how else would he be president of a country.And they don't put stupid people for jobs like that they get the best and smartest brightest usually.

[edit on 27-5-2006 by Hawaii_boy]

[edit on 27-5-2006 by Hawaii_boy]

It's in his cultural upbringing. People tend to not like smart people as much as dumb people. I'm sure when he started running for political offices his directors told to "allways act like your audiance knows more than you". *Also on the Tape Distribution of Amway Diamonds. He does have a problem when it comes to communicating with people. It's a sharp contrast to Reagan where he was a great actor and could always communicate what he wanted. I'm not calling RR dumb, it's just after voting him into office twice we started to realize around 1985 he lost that something that made you feel confident in what was really a dismal reality that we see again today. Alabama's governor uses the same playbook. [rabbit trail]. Bob Riley gets elected on a good ole boy smile and charismatic personality and a deceptive campaigne his opponent Don Seigelman could not recover from fast enough. If you listen to Gov. Riley, at first he sounds like a country bumpkin straight from the hills of AL. But really listen to the man and he knows what he's talking about. What Gov. Riley has done is get into office and announce the school budget funding is broke and not what was reported when he took office. After trying to raise taxes and 3 years later he changes his tune. "There is a surplus in the school budget", oh and I'm running for reelection. [/rabbit trail] Bush is doing almost the same tactics but he is just not that good. Overprojected deficit figures have now come in lower (just in time for the mid-terms) and the ecomony is doing great. If the economy is so great then why are there so many houses in my area now abandoned than in 2000 when "ALL" of these houses were filled with (Home Owners/Mortgagees). The airlines are struggling, one of the few that were really affected by 911. Fuel cost is now playing bigger role (See Peak Oil ATS). Home owenership having always gained in prior years slowed from 2000 on. It grew by 0.4-0.9 pecent per year. since 2000 it slowed to 0.1-0.4 ("Today more people own there own home than before!" (GWB, WJC, GHWB, RR, JC, GF, RMN... ). I'm under the impression that the figure will fall for first time in 2006 or 2007 (see The Coming Forclosures for more info). Note it takes several years to report home owenership statistics.