Come in here and take your shoes off~

I am using this time and place to get a few things out in the open and expect anyone who enters here to feel free to do the same

These are questions I've wondered here and there about people and 'their God' and not just here in this forum..throughout life in general. So if they seem rather childish it could be because I picked up on this as a child and just carried the same thoughts/questions into adulthood.

Why does it seem that some of you are so stingy with *your* God? Don't you think there is enough of Him to go around? If I want God to be a ball of energy, then so be it..or if someone wants to see God more in the sense of an extremely powerful all knowing being, so be that too. To me it is not a matter of how differently one feels about Him or sees Him. What matters is that one believes...

This is strictly a discussion about "your God and mine"...please share your thoughts here.
Magestica

Your God is my God. Thank God.

...God doesn't require any of us to define Him (whoops, I just did by saying 'Him') as he can define himself well enough if we but listened...


...thats my thoughts anyway...and I won't take my shoes off, not meaning to be rude...but, ummm, I've been wearing them all day and they may ever so slightly be a bit on the pongy side...

Quick, painless, and to the point, eh uIVIa.....?
Well said....

Magestica,
My humble and unknowledgable respose would be that it is not a matter of "my God verses your God", etc. That it is merely that "God" is so diverse, so known...yet unknown, so explained....yet not explained, so thought to be understood....yet not understood. God is basically and simply....All.
We, as finite beings, having a finite mind....and this has been said before, countless times....cannot and will not be able to fathom the infiniteness of God. Despite this, we, as human beings, having a finite mind, will always try to discern God, explain God, understand God, according to how we think and interpret, how we perceive, and how we feel about God. In such, we will be limited by our finite explanations, etc.
When discussing God, these preconceived notions, feelings, interpretations, thoughts, etc. come forth. These differ from individual to individual, like opinions and beliefs. Thus, conflict or misunderstandings or "my God verses your God" comes into play. It's all relative and yet all subjective.....we ponder something so vast, so unobtainable, yet obtainable, that it's like the little child that reaches for the cookie on the table and just before he/she grabs it.....their hand gets smacked and the child quickly withdraws their hand.

I think it sums up to be a matter of tolerance and understanding. We must all realize that we view, perceive, understand, and explain "God" differently. In such, if we could do these things, we might come to see that the picture, the discernment, the perception, the message that "God" is relaying is commonality resulting in one big picture of God.....it is in the combination of all our views and beliefs and understanding that we all will glimpse God...to see God, to understand God, to know God.....
Our own view of God is but one piece of a trillion pieces....and when we 'fit' these pieces together, the revelation of God is fully understood.....the finite moves to infinite.


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 20-10-2003 by Seekerof]

The ball of energy theory is as close as it gets. The idea of God in the bible contradicts itself many times. Hindu religions don't worship one God, the different sects worship higher beings and the universe itself. I myself am 100% sure that there is no God. If there was I don't think he would have created humans a fragile as he did.

I once knew an old junkie who KNEW he had to find a "Higher Power" or he was going to die. The problem was he was a DEVOUT Agnostic bordering on Atheism (he was just too darn LAZY to be a REAL Atheist)...

Another guy told him to just pick something, ANYTHING and beleive IT had more power than he did. Regardless of the physics and common sense. This dude chose a DOOR KNOB as his Higher Power... It was the door knob on the door that led into the "N.A." (Narcotics Anonymous) meeting hall.

The old junkie figured that if there REALLY was God he would have to be in that room if he was going to help him stop doing the dope and save his life.

This bizarre logic lead this guy to not only getting off the smack but going to seminary and becoming a preacher. Imagine that if you can...

Whenever I hear someone laying down dogmatic limits on another's beleif system it REALLY PISSES ME OFF.

I agree with Alien, God needs NO DEFINITION from us. That is similar to my dog defining me, she just CAN'T DO IT.

If you feel as though there are some who are, as you so eloquently put it, "being stingy with "their" God" my advice would be to RUN FROM THEM as fast as your feet will carry you.

This old guy would've DIED if he had been talking to someone like this. Instead he had the good fortune (or was it Devine intervention?) to be talking with someone who cared only about ONE thing, His BROTHER (the Junkie), and this person guided him to the light.

I heard an old saying that "religion is for those that fear hell. Spirituality is for those who have already been there"...

I find myself in dire need of a PERSONAL relationship with my creator. I need this on a daily basis. I SEEK IT OUT on a daily basis, He does NOT seek me out He doesn't need to.

I find that I am MUCH more comfortable in my own skin when I start my day in "conversation" with the "Big Guy".

Sometimes half a day will go by and I'll be having a REAL crappy day and can't figure out why. When I stop and think about it, 9 out of 10 times, it's because I did not start my day out in prayer... Strange when you think about it huh?

PEACE...
m...

uIVIa~ Agreed

Alien~ I also agree (about the feet) so you think it's not acceptable to refer to he as "He"? Why?

Seeker~ Well said, I always enjoy reading what you write. I just never understood the forced notions of God from people, whether it is their belief or not, whether it is their religion or not. Seems there is no valid argument when it comes to our understanding or perceptions of God. I do try to understand Him, I do try to picture Him etc..because this to *me* is what brings *me* closer to Him. But who can honestly stand there or sit there and tell me I'm wrong, unless they are God? Who can honestly promise me eternal darkness and damnation because I see/feel God so vastly different then them?

Thank you all for your comments and thoughts

Originally posted by Springer
I heard an old saying that "religion is for those that fear hell. Spirituality is for those who have already been there"...

Bro...one day...me...you...beers...

...thats gotta be the BEST most INSPIRED thing I've read in ages...

...oh, you KNOW ya bro can identify with that...

*applaud time*

Originally posted by magestica
Alien~ I also agree (about the feet) so you think it's not acceptable to refer to he as "He"? Why?

...she agrees about the feet...

I don't think its unacceptable to refer to God as a 'He', I was just pointing out that I would have 'defined' Him in some way by using the male reference 'Him', instead of 'Her'...

..though to be honest I really see God as a Him and a Her and neither as well...both genders and no gender...all at the same time...just I've been raised with God = Him...so meh, I use it...

*dashes off to wash feet*

Rather than drfining god let's define ourselves first.

aye everyone one spiritual light is entirly their own what ever prayer or belief gives you hope are keeps ur spiritlual light shining brightly is the path for you many people dont look within themselfs to see their light intead they let themselfs believe what what they have been told of what god is. the same with praying all the time i get emais from people giving up hope are letting their balance be disrupted becouse of their prayers were not answered. i simply ask them if they took the time to listen if they have slowed down everything that is going on in their mind or what happened during the day and listen. they ask listen to what. listen to light of wich u pray to. i have some people tell me they listened but couldent hear anything or how do i listen. becouse many people think to hear some thing physically but the answer comes more in spirtual knowing or just suddenly understanding it.

Magestica said:
"But who can honestly stand there or sit there and tell me I'm wrong, unless they are God? Who can honestly promise me eternal darkness and damnation because I see/feel God so vastly different then them?"

Simply put and answered.......no one. There will be many who will counter otherwise, but the answer, as with the "choice", ultimately rests with you...you and no one else. It's just between "God" and you.....and you should not be cultivating what others say, perceive, think, understand, but what you...Magestica...perceive, understand, think, etc.
It was once explained to me, that one must "zone" oneself off from the outside world.....goto a queit place, whatever it may be....and listen...talk...contemplate....God enjoins/encourages us to do so. There is a bond; a bond that cannot and will not be broken by no man, no being, nor you can break....it is a bond that is infinite, untouchable, undiscernable, yet there. It is just a matter of you and God, and it's there that the the answers are found, where the questions are asked, where revelation is given. As with age, wisdom comes, discernment comes, understanding comes......the finite mind of man, of you and I, of us all, slowly progresses to the infinite.
We stem from the "Source" and we will return to that "Source".....progression is assurd, the end result is assurd. It's only you who can answer those ever-asked questions....you have searched around all around you, asked those questions over and over, with no satisfactory response....why? You sought those answers in the wrong place, from the wrong "Source"....
Seek the true "Source" that you know is there, for there it is only you, God and no one else.

Seek not to tell God your truths, for in doing so, you do not allow God to give you His/Her Truths.....


Peace.

regards
seekerof

Incredible, inspiring words I would refer everyone who reads this to your post..definatley needs more then applause

And again, you guys are right, God doesn't need to be defined, I do it as a way to feel closer to Him..my understanding of people is what brings me closer to life, to humans, to existance, and this could just be one of the reasons I've chosen in my mind to define God..but I would never force this on anyone, not even my child..which is very difficult by the way, as we have to be careful of our own underlying dogmatic views of God while helping our children know Him..

Thank you!

NotTooHappy~I don't understand why you don't believe and I can only hope that one day you will..but again, you DO believe in something and that is more then nothing and one step closer to God. And I certainly don't think the bible should be a sole reason for believing or not. I agree, there are contadictions..and this just goes back to why I even wrote this post, people exchange vastly different views about God, they did so in the bible and do so today..

[Edited on 10/20/03 by magestica]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Quick, painless, and to the point, eh uIVIa.....?

Well said....

Magestica,
My humble and unknowledgable respose would be that it is not a matter of "my God verses your God", etc. That it is merely that "God" is so diverse, so known...yet unknown, so explained....yet not explained, so thought to be understood....yet not understood. God is basically and simply....All.
We, as finite beings, having a finite mind....and this has been said before, countless times....cannot and will not be able to fathom the infiniteness of God. Despite this, we, as human beings, having a finite mind, will always try to discern God, explain God, understand God, according to how we think and interpret, how we perceive, and how we feel about God. In such, we will be limited by our finite explanations, etc.
When discussing God, these preconceived notions, feelings, interpretations, thoughts, etc. come forth. These differ from individual to individual, like opinions and beliefs. Thus, conflict or misunderstandings or "my God verses your God" comes into play. It's all relative and yet all subjective.....we ponder something so vast, so unobtainable, yet obtainable, that it's like the little child that reaches for the cookie on the table and just before he/she grabs it.....their hand gets smacked and the child quickly withdraws their hand.

I think it sums up to be a matter of tolerance and understanding. We must all realize that we view, perceive, understand, and explain "God" differently. In such, if we could do these things, we might come to see that the picture, the discernment, the perception, the message that "God" is relaying is commonality resulting in one big picture of God.....it is in the combination of all our views and beliefs and understanding that we all will glimpse God...to see God, to understand God, to know God.....
Our own view of God is but one piece of a trillion pieces....and when we 'fit' these pieces together, the revelation of God is fully understood.....the finite moves to infinite.


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 20-10-2003 by Seekerof]

Wow. Talk about well said. I would only disagree with one thing (another difference ) and that would be that man's mind is finite. Sure we don't understand 99.999999999999999999% of existence but I do think we were created with the capacity to understand it all. Not talking about the physical vehicle here. I see the mind as separate. But I do agree that we cannot fully comprehend the infinitness of the Creator at this time and most likely for a really long time to come. But since it has been stated we were made in his image I believe we were given the potential. And what could be a more fruitful and satisfying journey than to seek out God and all manifestations.

Originally posted by THENEO
Rather than drfining god let's define ourselves first.

But really, my purpose for this thread was strictly about how we do define and see God etc..as I explained above. But if you want to first define yourself, I'm all eyes

I continually define myself, because I'm changing and growing all the time. Not changing like one extreme to the other, but more or less moving along with the tides, growing from the subtle touch of things/people who bring a certain light into my life(or darkness) whatever..Ohh heck, I cannot really describe it here without typing 1000 words or more. But don't be so quick to apply that I or anyone else doesn't or hasn't already done this..

If you feel someone hasn't here(at ATS), or that you haven't, then post it.

and if i be so bold since i move with faith and not fear...

the father of all creation lies within us, yet those who know this neglect the father of all creation in others for their own purposes, be it fear,loathsomeness,jealousy or some other factor that can be determined as "fall-able" what is funny to me is the takeover of christianity by those mentioned...
telling people he died for our sins(when he died for us to recgonize it) takes one back to the old testament where people would place a hand on an animal and then sacrifice it, and probably continue doing what they were doing...
the hijacking of religion as a tool to control the father of creation within other men is very apparent, yet it acomplishes nothing but more animosity and "fallen" traits...
when will it stop? never, no peace except the peace in your heart...
that is really the best indicator as to who knows(the father is within) and who dosent(the father is some place else)...
in reference to all the contradictary actions today and the lack of cohesion it can best be surmised as those who use ritual to speak to some higher being,but one should be carefull for what the pray for, they just may recieve...

last remarks...
the seraphim have taken control of most of christians beliefs and have hijacked the church beware wolves in sheeps clothing...

Originally posted by bigsage
last remarks...
the seraphim have taken control of most of christians beliefs and have hijacked the church beware wolves in sheeps clothing...

OooOoooh...now THERES something I'd love to hear more about. From my understanding the Seraphim were/are the Highest Order of Angels, like the personal Messengers and Gaurds of the Holy Throne...

...I've wondered...what IF the Seraphim didn't pass on the right messages for whatever reason...if information is power, is the messenger then the holder of power??

*random thoughts*

seraphim, "burning noble." refers to the ministering beings in isa 6:2,6, and may imply either a serpentine form (albiet with wings, human hands, and voices) or beings that have a glowing quality about them. one of the seraphim ministered to isaiah by bringing a glowing coal from the altar...

saraph describes the serpents tht attacked the israelites in the wilderness. they are refered to as "fiery" serpents. a "fiery" flying serpent appers in isa. 14:29, as well as in isa. 30:6.

Man is infinite
God is more

Meaning, the definitions we create with respect to God are reflections of what in us, are the last stages of our own development.

God is always more, there does not exist a means to label or define him/her in respect to words, thoughts or for that matter books.

Personally, I do not have a problem with someone who feels differently, I just do not agree and will respond in that way when they insist I feel differently.

Especially when double standards are involved

My impression is we all have the right to believe in what we wish as long as we do not try to impose that belief upon others. To be specific such acts are the result of insecurities the "doer" is engaged in, with respect to an internal struggle.

I do not let it bother me.

As has already been mentioned here, the behavior is the result of immaturity and well as a lack of self-confidence in what they are saying.

Originally posted by Toltec
Man is infinite
God is more

My impression is we all have the right to believe in what we wish as long as we do not try to impose that belief upon others. To be specific such acts are the result of insecurities the "doer" is engaged in, with respect to an internal struggle.

I feel the same. What puzzles me though is the the ones who present themselves in this fashion are the ones you would or I should say who *should* have the least amount of insecurities?? I can say this, because I consider myself someone who looks *in* to religions instead of looking out from them, and what I see is a person or people who go very deeply into their church/religion and become less and less secure with God..with respect to what you've said above.

Another example of this, without pointing fingers, is I've never ever been approached by someone somewhere who just believes in God and worships him/her in the privacy of their own mind and told that I will go to hell if I don't believe this way or that way. I only seem to be approached by those strong religious/church followers, who seem high pressed to place their dogmatic beliefs inside my head. I'm not the type of person to just walk away or shut the door on people like this, I will stay and listen, but as soon as I question, how they've come to the conclusion that because of the way *I* believe in God I will live for eternity in doom and damnation? They are answerless..or just pull out some verse this or that from their bible as *proof*. The only answer is..they do not know or cannot possibly say for certain that I am wrong and because I'm wrong I'm going to hell.

Does that make sense??

My point is; There is ONE God who is very colorful and if I have been chosen or born or have decided to see Him as yellow, then it shouldn't really matter, as long as I'm seeing atleast one of his many colors..
Magestica