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Do you imagine that a country can subsist and not be overthrown, when the decisions of law have no power, but are set aside and overthrown by individuals? Suppose you think your country has injured you in some way or given an unjust decree? Was that our agreement with you? Or were you to abide by the decree of your legislators? Tell us what complaint you have to make against us which justifies you in attempting to destroy us and the government? In the first place, did we not bring you into existence? Your father married your mother by our aid and gave life to you. Do you have any objection against those of us who regulate marriage? Or against those of us who regulate the system of care and education of children in which you were trained? Were not the laws, who have the charge of this, right in commanding your father to train you in history and mathematics? Well then, since you were brought into the world and nurtured and educated by us, can you deny in the first place that you are our child, as your fathers were before you? And if this is true then you are not on equal terms with us; nor can you think that you have a right to do to us what we are doing to you. Would you have any right to strike or slander or do any other evil to a father when you have been struck or slandered by him, or received some other evil at his hands? � If you are honorable, you would not say this! And if we thought right to destroy you, do you think that you have any right to destroy us in return, and your country? And will you say that you are justified in this? Has a defender of inalienable human rights like you failed to discover that your country is to be valued more and is higher and holier even than mother or father or any ancestor, and more to be regarded in the eyes of God and of men of understanding? Is your country not also to be soothed, and gently and reverently entreated when angry, even more than a father, and if not persuaded, then obeyed? And when we are punished by her, whether with imprisonment or flogging, the punishment is to be endured in silence; and if she leads us to wounds or death in battle, there lies our destiny as is right; neither may anyone yield or retreat or leave his rank, but whether in battle or in a court of law, or in any other place, he must do what his government and his country order him, and if he may do no violence to his father or mother, much less may he do violence to his country.

Consider if, that in your present attempt, you are going to do us wrong. For, after having brought you into the world, and nurtured and educated you, and given you and every other citizen a share in every good that we had to give, we further proclaim and give the right to every American, that if he does not like us when he has come of age and has seen the ways of the country, he may go where he pleases and take his goods with him; and none of us will forbid him or interfere with him. Any of you who does not like us and the country, and who wants to go to some other country, may go where he likes, and take his possessions with him. But he who has experience of the manner in which we order justice and administer the laws, and still remains, has entered into an implied contract that he will do as we command him. And he who disobeys us is, as we maintain, wrong in three ways: first, because in disobeying us he is disobeying his parents; secondly, because we are the authors of his education; thirdly, because he has made an agreement with us that he will duly obey our commands; and he neither obeys them nor convinces us that our commands are wrong; and we do not rudely impose them, but give him the alternative of obeying or convincing us; that is what we offer, and he does neither. These are the sorts of accusations to which you will be exposed if you continue to pursue your intentions. There is clear proof, that we and the country were not displeasing to you. This is the country in which you begat your children, which is proof of your satisfaction. Now you pay no respect to us the laws, of whom you are the attempted destroyer; and are doing what only a miserable slave would do, running away and turning your back on the contracts and agreements which you made as a citizen. Answer this question please: Are we right in saying that you agreed to be governed according to US in deed, and not in word only? Is that true or not? You are breaking the covenants and agreements which you made with us at your leisure, not in haste or under any compulsion, but having had your entire life to think of them, during which time you were at liberty to leave the country, if we were not exactly what you wanted in a government, or if our covenants appeared to you to be unfair. You had your choice, and might have gone to any other country you desired. On the contrary you seemed to be so fond of the country, or, in other words, of us her laws (for who would like a state that has no laws?) that you never left her. And now you forsake your agreements.

Take our advice; do not make yourself ridiculous by continuing these allegations. Just consider, if you transgress in this sort of way, what good will you do, either to yourself or to your family and friends? If you move to another country, their government will be against you, and all patriotic citizens will regard you as a subverter of the laws, and you will confirm in the minds of the judges the justice of their own condemnation of you. For he who is a corrupter of the laws is more than likely to be corrupter of the young and foolish portion of mankind. Will you then flee from well-ordered countries and virtuous men? Is existence worth having on these terms? Or will you go to them without shame, and talk to them? Tell them your own opinions about freedom and justice? Or will you go away from well-governed states to chaotic, famine ridden nations where there is great disorder and license. They will be charmed to hear the tale of your daring crusade against your American oppressors. Of your self-declared warfare against the nation responsible for bringing you into the world and giving you everything you have and teaching you everything you know. But there will be no one to remind you that in your old age you violated the most sacred laws from a miserable desire of a little more license and freedom to do as you please. You will live, but how? Say that you are making these claims against us for the sake of your children, that you may bring them up and educate them in your ways, not ours. Will you take them into some other country and deprive them of American citizenship? Is that the benefit which you would confer upon them? Allow them to be schooled outside of the United States� educational system?

Listen then to us who have brought you up. Think not of life and children first, and of justice afterwards, but of justice first, that you may be justified before God. For neither will you nor any that belong to you be happier or holier in this life, or happier in another, if you continue your quest. End it now. For now you depart in innocence, a sufferer and not a doer of evil. A victim, not of the laws, but of men. But if you continue, returning evil for evil, and injury for injury, breaking the covenants and agreements which you have made with us, and wronging those whom you ought least to wrong, that is to say, yourself, your friends, your country, and us, we shall be angry with you while you live, and our brethren, in the world below, will receive you as an enemy; for they will know that you have done your best to destroy us. Listen, then, to us and not to Instinct.


[Edited on 5-11-2002 by All Seeing Eye]

Thanks Esrtrogon.


Yes, and what a wonderful education system it is, not exactly correct in some of its finer points, as in the true design and function of this planet, but also of its complete Geography. Did you forget something? Your goons, the Masons did their best to enforce your paradigms and religions. But not all were fooled by their performance.

Our Mother and Father? Have you too forgotten the creators? It seems they didn�t forget you, with your superiority and arrogance. It seems there is much you have forgotten. You are not our parents; you are our long lost cousins who need to come down from their high place. The angels (fallen) that guarded the gates to the lost garden are slowly being sent back to God. Yes, something else your education seemed to leave out.

I will not waste much time with this arrogant rant, so I will get to the point.

We have always had control of our instincts. But when unseen forces continually try to subvert our nature, eventually, that subversion will have an adverse effect, or make us stronger.

We will offer you peace and equality, something you never gave us. We shall offer you a vision of a grand future for mankind, not one of superiority and enslavement. We will offer you a spirit of teamwork and cooperation, not of segregation and elusiveness. But if you choose to block the entrance to that which all of mankind owns, then you mark yourselves enemies. Stand aside or you shall know the full might of what mankind can do. For all countries will come together, united in their cause, which is right in the Eyes of God. It is your choice, something your education, didn�t give us! Stand aside, or meet the real Creator!


[Edited on 27-10-2002 by All Seeing Eye]

the drivel above is not in fact an excerpt from the English-language instruction booklet accompanying a pack of South Korean self-assembly furniture, but a huge and slightly modified ( proper names, American for Athenian) cut and paste from Jowett's stylistically and linguistically appalling 1871 translation of Plato's Crito - it is Socrates ( or rather Plato's character of Socrates) speaking.
Estragon is starting to regret his classical education.
What a world - expect 4,000 lines of Lucretius next.

No reason to *regret* having an education, Estrgon. After all, it does help out when it comes to *identifying* drivel when something *sounds* like drivel...

Well if i may say this do we belive in true fredoms ??? As of right now there is another side what about justice how can there be justice if the if it is now corpit entity that we all can ivest in as cca is on the stock market and you have prisons farming there childern out how is this justice?????

a reply to: kanazcaster

Did you really just revive a 14 year old thread?

a reply to: 2elom1

Dude i can't read this

Can you decode it then repost plz?

anyone find it odd that he joined in 2002 and this is his first post?
2nd

originally posted by: JesusXst
anyone find it odd that he joined in 2002 and this is his first post?
2nd

Holy crap...


John Titor... is this you??

a reply to: madmac5150

Lol it must be!

a reply to: JesusXst

It was posted in 2002, someone made a new ATS account and bumped it. This must have been one of the very first ever ATS threads.

I probably read it back then with the ATS account I could never for the life of me remember the login details for.

Back then there was more anonymous (guest) posts than on 4chan, but it was still a great site.

When I saw the title of this op I thought yall would be discussing that Iceland volcano from 2010..

-Chris

a reply to: JesusXst

what i find odd in the OP is at the bottom it says, "[Edited on 5-11-2002 by All Seeing Eye] " a month later.
then the second post says the same thing."[Edited on 5-11-2002 by All Seeing Eye] " who has the name All Seeing Eye, also a month later.

can anyone say sock puppet. or was All Seeing Eye a Mod back then?

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: JesusXst

what i find odd in the OP is at the bottom it says, "[Edited on 5-11-2002 by All Seeing Eye] " a month later.
then the second post says the same thing."[Edited on 5-11-2002 by All Seeing Eye] " who has the name All Seeing Eye, also a month later.

can anyone say sock puppet. or was All Seeing Eye a Mod back then?

Yeah you're right, makes one wonder.

it could be those or backwards ..... 1mole2

originally posted by: woogleuk
a reply to: JesusXst

It was posted in 2002, someone made a new ATS account and bumped it. This must have been one of the very first ever ATS threads.

I probably read it back then with the ATS account I could never for the life of me remember the login details for.

Back then there was more anonymous (guest) posts than on 4chan, but it was still a great site.

Yeah that's right, it was different back then.

It's got everyone wondering too.

lol it might just!

a reply to: JesusXst

but only mods can write in someones post. so if he wasn't a mod, only locgical thing i can think of is a sock pupet account talking to themselves, and forgot who they were logged in as. all seeing eye is still active now and posted a thread back on oct,31st.

if it's a sock puppet account, it was made 3 months later. so it can't be he forgot the password or anything like that,well maybe so but it's still weird.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

now what's really weird, i looked back and the edited dates and i swear when i wrote my first post it said the same thing now it says "(Edited on 27-10-2002 by All Seeing Eye)" i don't believe in the mandla effect so what the hell.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

check out the third post and then look back at who the second post is addressed to. Esrtrogon
then in the the thrid post Esrtrogon's ,it's like he is talking to someone else or talking about himself in the thrid person.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

now what's really weird, i looked back and the edited dates and i swear when i wrote my first post it said the same thing now it says "(Edited on 27-10-2002 by All Seeing Eye)" i don't believe in the mandla effect so what the hell.

It's probably a result of moving the message content from one platform to another as ATS has done from time to time if I remember correctly.

For some reason, the content that was "moved" in some way shape or form got that edit tag.

The mods or owners here could verify or correct my statements above, but that would be my guess.