The Necronomicon "The Wanderings of Alhazred"

A book by Donald Tyson. Before I read it, is it worth the 17 bucks that I spent on it?

Forgery "Necronomicon" isn't even a Greek word (the correct transliteration would be Necromicon). No Arab would have that name by the way since it violates their Grammar rules for names. Do have some fun with the so called 50 names of Marduk, an old Babylonian idol worship ritual still present in the Talmud. H.P. Lovecraft's works are pure fiction (Though there actually is a slumbering "monster God" in Tamil cosmology by the name of Cthulu. I know this from a Tamil woman who claim's Lovecraft plagiarised bits and pieces of their book of the dead).


[edit on 13-5-2006 by Nakash]

Originally posted by Arkham
A book by Donald Tyson. Before I read it, is it worth the 17 bucks that I spent on it?

only if you want to become demon possessed i knew someone who read it and said they became demon possessed if i were you i wouldnt read that book it's a gateway for demon possession as far as i can tell!!

You'll probably learn more from

Dan Clore's Necronomicon Page

Than just about anywhere else. He gives references and background on most of the stuff you are probably interested in.

Have fun.

Oh yeah. you're welcome.

.

I have heard many bad things on that book as well. What do you expect for repeating the 50 names of Satan for one hour (that's right- Marduk, ie: Beelzebub, lord of the flies, old Babylonian/Canaanite sun worship). Going to attract some bad things if you ask me That ritual had lots of meaning in ancient Babylon. Maybe the spirits crave some sort of worship

anyway, there actually IS a deity by the name of Cthulu (or some cognate). It's in the Tamil or Sri Lankan book of the Dead, and he's supposed to be a "Dead" God who will revive in the fashion of Osiris. He will also bring Armaggedon.


[edit on 14-5-2006 by Nakash]

A primary component of "superstition" is irrationality.

Superstition: An unreasonable belief based on ignorance and sometimes fear.

Zip

What does that have to do with the thread if I may ask? The topic is the Necronomicon, a forgery based upon the works of H.P. Lovecrat but which contains a few ancient rituals taken from the priests of Baal and their equivalent in Babylon. If your lucky enough to ever read anything by Lovecraft you will always have a small voice asking you at the back of your mind if he took some of his creations from some veritable source.

Originally posted by Nakash
It's in the Tamil or Sri Lankan book of the Dead, and he's supposed to be a "Dead" God who will revive in the fashion of Osiris. He will also bring Armaggedon.

Wow, that's fascinating! I often think that the people of southern india have some sort of a connection to the semitic cultural groups. Most intruiginly to me, the Harrapan script is (while untranslated and still a mystery), thought by at least some to be related to the Elamo-Semitic language family. If we posit that the harrapan people are the current southern indians (which is shakey), then that becomes really interesting, because the dead-and resurrecting god, in association with the end-of-the-world motiff, is extremely common amoung the semitic religions, such as in egypt, sumer, judaism, islam, etc (with osiris, inanna, messiah and the mahdi respectively). So this little tidbit is really fascinating to me!

you will always have a small voice asking you at the back of your mind if he took some of his creations from some veritable source.

That is the almigty shoggoth gnawing at your brain stem! Oh may the ancient ones make the jabbering only drive us mad for a short while!

Originally posted by Nygdan

. . . . is extremely common amoung the semitic religions, such as in egypt, sumer, judaism, islam, etc . . .

"Semitic" is a politico-cultural term, with a lot of baggage---sort of like "caucasian" and so forth.

On the one hand, the Egyptian Language is considered a "semitic language" because it shares the system of (bi or) triconsonantal word roots with other such languages as Hebrew and Aramaic.

On the other hand, Egyptians didn't consider themselves ethnically "semitic." And neither did semitic tribes like the Hyksos, Phoenecians, Jews or Canaanites.

As far as "Egyptian Religion" goes, it underwent a continuous evolution as the two Egypts were united under a single Pharaoh, and then as the national capitol was moved, and previously local deities became "national gods," then devolved again based on politics. Bast, Osirus, Ra, and Aten all show such evolutions.

On the other hand, Semitic deities were often astrological/astronomically oriented, i.e., Marduk (the planet Jupiter), Inanna (Venus), or Shemesh (Sun) and Sin (moon). They tended to have cults that focused on animal sacrifice, to a much greater extent than did "Egyptian Religion." Some scholars have argued that Egyptian and Greek Gods were more "civil gods" of cities and states than they were ever seen as shepherding the lives of the common working man.

Ethnically, the Egyptians considered race irrelevant. They sometimes wrote of themselves as being composed of "four peoples," yet ethnically distinct from their neighbors. They don't seemed to have cared about the ethnicity of their rulers, as long as they acted out the forms of traditional government. For example, during the Hyksos (semitic?) period, the Pharaoh wore a beard like many semite tribes. Yet when ethnic egyptians, who were not hairy regained the throne, they actually wore false beards, to maintain the continuity of the "royal image."

My point here is, as compelling as it can be to make "connections" across time and space, we end up making larger and larger generalizations that have less and less factual content.

The Jews recorded how their religion was "totally unique, and nothing like" the faiths of their neighbors. Every people feels exactly the same way.

Personally, I'm more impressed with the universality of resurrection stories, than with any purported "hidden connections."

After all, the Navajo have resurrection stories; does this connect them with Israel?

The Lakota have a belief that Wakan-Tanka is the Universal "grandfather" of humanity, but that they are his chosen people. Does this make them Semetic?

Or how about Odin, sacrificing his own eye for saving knowledge, and hanging on the "world-tree" for nine nights, to atone for the world and "forestall" the end of time.

Are Egyptian and Tamil religion semitic? If they are, so is everything else. Hell, even the Soviet "Premier has a cold" propoganda becomes a resurrection myth if you push it far enough.

Not trying to rake you over the coals or anything. Just playing devil's advocate, giving away free shaves with occam's razor.

All the best.

.

Originally posted by Arkham
A book by Donald Tyson. Before I read it, is it worth the 17 bucks that I spent on it?

Hey, if your into that kind of fiction, go for it. Google up a few reviews if your curious of what peoples thoughts are on it. I tend to check out sci-fi books myself. Arthur C Clarke is a god!

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
"Semitic" is a politico-cultural term, with a lot of baggage---sort of like "caucasian" and so forth.

No argument from me on that. The term has its uses.

On the one hand, the Egyptian Language is considered a "semitic language" because it shares the system of (bi or) triconsonantal word roots with other such languages as Hebrew and Aramaic.

But the spread of languages usually occurs with more than merely the transmission of grammar rules and syntax and the like. Especially in ancient times, similar languages were spoken by similar cultures, more or less.

While today, for example, a person of african extraction can be a native speaker of english without being an anglo, they do tend to be part of the anglo culture.

Similarly, the people in egypt, the levant, sumer, and south india, are clearly different peoples, however, they speak languages in related families. And, along with that, we see this 'dead and ressurecting god' cultural motiff. Which is, if nothing else, interseting. I wouldn't say that there is a semitic cultural zone from the Nile to the Jordan to the Tigris to the Saraswati, certainly not based on that alone.


On the other hand, Egyptians didn't consider themselves ethnically "semitic."
I'd be surprised if they even had such a word.

And neither did semitic tribes like the Hyksos, Phoenecians, Jews or Canaanites.

But we would call them, from the modern perspective, semitic. Just like we can note the cultural similarities between the hebrews and arabs in their early periods, perhaps there are similar cultural similarities between the south indians and ancient hebrews or egyptians.

Bast, Osirus, Ra, and Aten all show such evolutions.

From what I understand, Set used to also be more prominent too. So definitly, we're not talking about the culture being set in stone, despite the laws os moses being transcribed as such!

Some scholars have argued that Egyptian and Greek Gods were more "civil gods" of cities and states

Might be an influence of being more city dwellling. I have also heard that modern Hinduism is very similar, in 'hand waiving' details anyway, to the egpytian religion.

My point here is, as compelling as it can be to make "connections" across time and space, we end up making larger and larger generalizations that have less and less factual content.

Indeed, its far too easy to dream up a 'grand' scheme and be swayed by it. Just look at the aryan theory.

The Lakota have a belief that Wakan-Tanka is the Universal "grandfather" of humanity, but that they are his chosen people. Does this make them Semetic?

Since they don't speak a semitic language, definitly not. However, and again I don't want to actually say that the dravidians are part of some 'pan-semitic world culture', when we have cultural (what is religion but culture) and linguistic connections, then it at least becomes 'wild assed speculation' worthy.

Or how about Odin, sacrificing his own eye for saving knowledge, and hanging on the "world-tree" for nine nights, to atone for the world and "forestall" the end of time.

Indeed. Baldur could be seen as a scandanavian messiah if its stretched too thinly.

Are Egyptian and Tamil religion semitic?

I don't even think that Tamil is considered a semitic religion anyway. THe Harappan script, which is undeciphered, I've only heard it 'tentatively suggested' that its related to Elamite, and through that related to the semitic languages. But, hell, it might be some sort of indo-european language in the end! And even still, the harappan civilization doesn't necessarily have much of a connection with southern india anyway.

Just playing devil's advocate, giving away free shaves with occam's razor.

Do they use Occam's buzz-cutter in BTS?

Originally posted by Nygdan

. . . . when we have cultural (what is religion but culture) and linguistic connections . . .

O.K., one final footnote, and then it's back to the topic at hand. Your remark "what is religion but culture" was a hotly debated topic in both sociology and anthropology early in the last century. Guys like Mercea Eliade and Emil Durkheim said that "religion is the worship of culture." Their classic example was the American flag present in most protestant churches following WWI.

Of course, that example begs the question. The churches added their US flags during world war I, because the Lutheran churches, containing mostly ethnic Germans, were suspected of being "disloyal," especially when they preached pacifism . . . .

On the other hand, a later generation of historians have pointed how often religion rubs against the grain of the larger culture. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was, after all, held a doctorate in theology rather than medicine, as kids today assume. The basis of antislavery and universal suffrage among whites both had their roots in American Protestantism. Another example would be the Ghost Dance Religion among the Plains Indian tribes, and the old-line warrior response, or Wahhabism in the midst of Islamic states.

See, if we had a "Philopsophy Forum" I advocated, the interplay and tension between culture and religion could be a great discussion topic. But oh well. So much time, so little to do . . .

Now, back to the Mad Arab.



[edit on 15-5-2006 by dr_strangecraft]

[edit on 15-5-2006 by dr_strangecraft]

I don't believe that the Necronomicon existed outside of HPL's head until the 1960's.

But,

One of the prominent features of HPL's "creepy references" is to the "fabled, thousand-towered city of Irem" lost in the sands of Arabia.

In the 1920's, this was thought of as nothing more than romantic excess from a pulp fiction writer.

In actuality, the Qur'an mentions FOUR cities that God has destroyed because of the wickedness of the citizentry: Sodom, Gomorrah, Ubar, and Irem.

And then in 1986 or so, NASA was doing satelite work for the Sa'udi govt, infra-red imaging for possible water sources in the Rub Al Khali, or "empty quarter," of Arabia. Lo and behold, there was a city with a bunch of towers on its perimeter. Excavations had convinced scientists that the Qur'anic version was based on fact. The town had been built around a well, which collapsed, possibly after an earthquake; the town slid into the sinkhole.

In the Qur'an, Irem was destroyed because its people started doing business with Djinni, and gave up their normal trades and businesses in order to practice sorcery. But the Djinni turned on them, and broke free, so God wiped out the town, and took all its leaders to hell.

Oh yeah, I read recently that experts now say that what they found was actually Ubar, and that Irem is a distinct, undiscovered, city in Arabia. The supposed source of Solomon's mines . . .


.

Originally posted by Arkham
A book by Donald Tyson. Before I read it, is it worth the 17 bucks that I spent on it?

WOW, let me be the first to actuality answer your question.

Necronomicon: The Wanderings of Alhazred by: Donald Tyson

It is interesting reading, Tyson's interpretation of the necronomicon mythos is entertaining and due to his occult background has the air of plausibility about it. Unlike the Simon Necronomicon, other than some sigils of the "old ones" there is no rituals or anything like that presented in the book. The whole true/untrue thing about the Nec add a fun "mockumentry" feel to it in the best Spinal Tap tradition.

Is it worth $17? I don't know, I have spent more for less entertainment.

Originally posted by Cug

WOW, let me be the first to actuality answer your question.

Cheater!

(threadslayer, too.)


But the rest of us, with our news-comentator responses give an indication of the "digital authority" that goes with having a d-ego. It highlights how many of us, debunkers and bunkers alike, are falling over ourselves for a chance to discuss the words of the mad arab. Fabled lost cities too.

Somebody says "necro-whatsicon," and we are all over it like wall-to-wall shag carpeting.

And about as deep.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Somebody says "necro-whatsicon," and we are all over it like wall-to-wall shag carpeting.

Yep then you find out that it just doesn't matter if it's "real" or not. Most of the famous grimoires like the Keys of Solomon, The Heptameron, The Black Pullett. The Grimoire of Honorius are just as "fake" as the Necronomicon, It's just that they are older so people feel they are more "real."

The truthfullness of the Nec really has nothing to do with it's ability to be a workable system. When you get right down to it anything can become a workable system of Magick. You could do it with Snow White. You could evoke Sleepy to help you sleep, or banish Sneezy to cure an allergy etc...

If you're at all serious about learning about magick, I suggest getting as many books by Aleister Crowley as possible... perhaps even his book on the Necromicon

Originally posted by dnero6911
If you're at all serious about learning about magick, I suggest getting as many books by Aleister Crowley as possible... perhaps even his book on the Necromicon

Well I'll second getting all the Crowley books you can. (Gee who would of thunk that?? )

But Crowley didn't have a book on the Necronomicon. Probably because it was written about 25 years after he died.

im pretty sure the book is about SUMERIAN mythology not the 50 names of satan what a raving fundie response

also haha i have dug up an ancient thread
just like cthulu this thread shall rise to the top of ats
and spread chaos!!!!!
hahaha!!
take that thread digger haters!!

i now consider mysefl an archeoligist lol

[edit on 29-4-2010 by ashanu90]

reply to post by ashanu90


Strange Aeons are upon us?

The Avonomicon is the one with Sumerian stuff. Tyson's version is much cooler.

The forum definitely needs a new Necronomicon thread.