Guns of the Secret Service

I found this on the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS BY KIDS

What types of weapons do agents carry?

Secret Service agents and officers carry the Sig Sauer P229, 357 caliber pistol. They also are trained on the Remington Model 870 shotgun, the Uzi submachine gun, and the MP5 automatic weapon.

I feel that the Secret Service is the most respectable of America's government agencies and found this whilst looking at the kids FAQ.

This post isn't really ground breaking or anything I just found this to be the most interesting, especially the fact that they still carry the Uzi which is an extremely reliable weapon, though I have heard it isn't the most accurate. I haven't had the chance to shoot one myself (yet).

I also think the .357 sig is interesting. Does anyone know why they would choose this caliber? My guess would be it is a pretty accurate round (2 inch groups or so at 75 yards is the best I could and I am far from a pistol marksman) and I have heard it also has some pretty good velocity and penetration. I understand why they chose Sigs though, talk about one fine piece of craftmanship

ETA: Video Here is a video of the Attempt on Reagan. While I am sure most have seen it and what not I find it pretty interesting to see how quickly the Secret Service agents busted out Uzis in the background. Because of the crappiness of the video it maybe tough to make out at first but if you have as much time on your hands as I do it is a pretty cool clip to see the agents do their jobs

[edit on 12/5/2006 by Jack Bauer]

Are you on about 'Clandestine' Weapons?

Heard of the .45 Welrod and 'Liberator' used by the S.O.E. and O.S.S. during WW2?

The 9mm Sten gun series were better as a Clandestine weapon than a Standard Military SMG since it could be disassembled and stashed away easily. Also there was another Sten made in the USA called the 'Sputter Gun' made becouse full auto weapons were made illeagal, This Sputter Gun had no trigger and was fired releasing the bolt and it fired until the whole magazine was empty, It was also made illeagal.

There were other types of Clandestine SMG prototypes, The 9mm MCEM2 designed by a polish officer and the MCEM3 which was a collapsible SMG

Just thought I’d add that Secret Service snipers all have custom made rifles to fit their specifications. They use the same rifle but each one is unique and is ‘fitted’ to the shooter.

.357 SiG offers very high levels of penetration, especially in respect of vehicles, and is generally chosen for this reason.

The round offers many other benefits (most notably reliable feeding because of the cartridge profile) and has also been gaining a very effective track record for itself in officer involved shootings - it is a particular favorite of State
Troopers across the country and has also been adopted by the Federal Air Marshalls (a strange choice when you think about it).

I find it an unpleasant round to shoot, pressure levels are very high, and I prefer other calibers as a result, it's also somewhat pricey to practice with.

[edit on 14-5-2006 by Winchester Ranger T]

I'm wondering if Secret Service snipers are ex-military skilled shooters or if they are more like the police SWAT who are equipping themselves with fancy gear but couldn't hit the target even if it bit them in the ass?

They use the 357 because it has 100% knock-down power. If you get hit in the shoulder with a round, there is absolutely no chance you are going to be able to adjust and shoot again because you will be on your ass.

Ufia, the Secret Service protects the President. You think htey would take people who cant hit # with a rifle and put them on a roof top. THese guys likely have to be top of their class marksmen in some branch of the military.

I'm wondering if Secret Service snipers are ex-military skilled shooters or if they are more like the police SWAT who are equipping themselves with fancy gear but couldn't hit the target even if it bit them in the ass?

There are many world class marksmen in many SWAT teams. That "fancy" gear helps to save their lives and lives of innocent people. There are many good and bad marksmen in law enforcement just as there are many good and bad marksmen in the military. Being ex-military does not insure better skill over a SWAT team sniper especially for an urban environment sniper role.

Originally posted by Jack Bauer
I just found this to be the most interesting, especially the fact that they still carry the Uzi which is an extremely reliable weapon

The secret service is starting to switch over to the Colt 9mm SMG. DSS (state dept) has already completely switched over. Imo, it's a more reliable and accurate weapon. It works exactly like an M4, the only difference is the caliber.

Sporty

My sister was issued a S&W 357 snub nose 2 in barrel

Originally posted by ludaChris
They use the 357 because it has 100% knock-down power. If you get hit in the shoulder with a round, there is absolutely no chance you are going to be able to adjust and shoot again because you will be on your ass.

There is no such thing as "100% knock down power" especially in handguns as they are all VERY under-powered.

Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T
There is no such thing as "100% knock down power" especially in handguns as they are all VERY under-powered.

I think there is, try firing a 454 Casull or a .44 magnum for that matter, in comparison a .45 ACP seems inadequate and lacking. .

Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T
There is no such thing as "100% knock down power" especially in handguns as they are all VERY under-powered.

I should have used the proper term "stopping power". I didnt think about the .357 Sig round being different from the .357 Magnum round but you caught my mistake. I guess you would call the .45 underpowered? Handguns are made for close-quarters fighting, theyre obviously not going to stop someone like a 12 ga. slug would. But if you get hit at say within 75 yards of the shot, you are going down, it packs a serious punch. Many law enforcement agencies are switching over to the .357 sig cartrige because of this, and the fact that it gives them longer range and better accuracy and a flatter trajectory. I wouldnt call ALL handguns underpowered, ever shot a .357, .45, .44, .41, .454? All of those handguns pack a serious wallop. Underpowered, I think not.

I'll say it again - handguns are relatively under-powered, all of them.

If you want to get into semantics, Thomson Contender make "handguns" in any caliber you choose, even .300 Win Mag, but these are not truly handguns in the generally accepted definition.

.454 Casull, .460 & .500 S&W, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger etc etc are all very powerful cartridges, but they are specialized hunting rounds and have no practical application in a personal defence weapon - .454 Casull has been used in exactly one self defence shooting and that was only because the shooter was on his way back from the range, with the gun in a bag over his shoulder (just about the only way you could "carry" a .454) - the effects were however somewhat terminal for the machete wielding felon.

9mm, .45ACP, .357 Magnum, .357 SiG, .40 S&W, .38 Special, and even 10mm are low powered rounds - comparatively speaking, and must be carefully placed in order to be effective. I admit that 357 SiG is an interesting round, and it has been receiving stellar reviews, I believe that the Virignia State Police use it in a SiG P229 DAK, and they have reported that even hits on extremities have proved to be fight stoppers - unlikely, but amazing if true. When I shoot it, it feels like someone is smacking me on the forehead with a rubber mallet, a consequence of the high pressure this round uses. This is not generally conducive to accurate shooting - something that is far more important than any minor differences in power.

There's an old saying that you should only use a handgun to fight your way to a long gun, it's one I happen to agree with.

Originally posted by SportyMB

Originally posted by Jack Bauer
I just found this to be the most interesting, especially the fact that they still carry the Uzi which is an extremely reliable weapon

The secret service is starting to switch over to the Colt 9mm SMG. DSS (state dept) has already completely switched over. Imo, it's a more reliable and accurate weapon. It works exactly like an M4, the only difference is the caliber.

Sporty

My question here is if they want to use a rifle like the m4 why not use the rifle cartridge?

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T
There is no such thing as "100% knock down power" especially in handguns as they are all VERY under-powered.

I think there is, try firing a 454 Casull or a .44 magnum for that matter, in comparison a .45 ACP seems inadequate and lacking.

.

The thing about big cartridges are they are meant for penetration not so much stopping a person. I am under the impression a bullet that stays in the body is much more effective than one that goes all the way through

Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T
I'll say it again - handguns are relatively under-powered, all of them.


There's an old saying that you should only use a handgun to fight your way to a long gun, it's one I happen to agree with.

I like the saying
"Comparing power between pistols is like discussing rank between privates"

[edit on 28/5/2006 by Jack Bauer]

[edit on 28/5/2006 by Jack Bauer]

The 357 is considered the best man stopping round for a couple of reasons.
1:velocity
2: bullet weight.

Notice I said "man stopping round".
The goal with this round is to stop the offender.
not necessarily to kill the person, just to stop him.

The 357 delivers almost all of it's ballistic energy INTO the target (ideally being a 180lbs human being) without lack of penetration or over-penetration.

[edit on 5/29/06 by Shadowbear]

[edit on 5/29/06 by Shadowbear]

Does the Secret Service use the H&K MP5K? I've seen one fitted into a briefcase, and it looked quite impressive.

[edit on 30-5-2006 by Ford Farmer]

Originally posted by Jack Bauer

I just found this to be the most interesting, especially the fact that they still carry the Uzi which is an extremely reliable weapon

The secret service is starting to switch over to the Colt 9mm SMG. DSS (state dept) has already completely switched over. Imo, it's a more reliable and accurate weapon. It works exactly like an M4, the only difference is the caliber.
edit on 28/5/2006 by Jack Bauer]

Probably cause it was orig intended as a varmint round. Why the hell the military adopted a caliber that was effective against prairie dogs, for use against humans is beyond me.

I imagine the do it for that reason, and the 9mm has a much lower report inside a house, or alleyway than the .223/5.56mm, not to mention less penatration.

I'm wondering if Secret Service snipers are ex-military skilled shooters or if they are more like the police SWAT who are equipping themselves with fancy gear but couldn't hit the target even if it bit them in the ass?

Some are ex-military, some came from the civilian world, which is where most the the worlds best shooters comes from. I shot with some LE guys once, and laughed my butt off when they called a 100yd shot, a "long distance hit" at that same moment, I happened to be shooting out to 1000 yards lol. THey're the only people I know that need laser range finders for shooting 25-100yds.

Which Mp5 do they use? Do they use the Mp5 PDW version? Just Wondering.

My question here is if they want to use a rifle like the m4 why not use the rifle cartridge?

Because chances are that the weapon will be fired in a crowd of people. And the Colt SMG is much smaller than an M4.

[edit on 2/6/2006 by SportyMB]

Does colt offer the SMG in .45 or 10mm? I heard the FBI uses 10mm MP5's they had specially made to their specs.

Someone needs to make a .50AE SMG

The MP5 briefcase is pretty cool and I'm sure that the secret service has a few for when they want to be low key