When the Govt. has efectively declared war on it's own people, The Paranormal Gig gets to take a b

It's time to wake up People! Look very serious and hard at your rights being taken away.

How many parts of the Constitution have been violated in the name of "Homeland Security"???

The Govt. has declared War all right. It has declared WAR ON IT"S OWN PEOPLE!

Originally posted by StarLord
How many parts of the Constitution have been violated in the name of "Homeland Security"???

Well, I don't know. I can't think of a single violation of any Constitutional right. Unless you want to lay some out, I have to assume then that none have occurred.

Harte

Gee, how about the 4th amendment? :

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution


By NOT going after those folks that have tapped your telephone conversations, the NSA & the Telephone companies they used to do this.. have been protected.

Question is WHO gave the orders to quash the investigation??

Well I'm Canadian and my country doesn't really do this but I can understand how you must feel. I've seen a few Alex Jones videos.

Originally posted by StarLord
Gee, how about the 4th amendment? :

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

My emphasis.
The government of the United States (or any other government, I daresay) does not have the assets to do what you here claim. No conversations are being recorded, in other words, nor even listened in on.
What is happening is computer programs developed by the NSA (among others) are using pattern recognition software in an attempt to ferret out terrorist cells that are known to be operating within the U.S.
The task is accomplished by filtering through the times, places, durations and recieving parties associated with large samples of telephone calls that originate in the U.S. or calls made from outside that come in to the U.S.

The same thing could be accomplished overseas, could it not? I mean, had we the allies, we could set up these programs in other countries, completely bypassing your argument here.

Besides, even if W. was sitting there listening in on all the calls, it would hardly violate the 4th Amendment. A very strong and, in my opinion, legally airtight case can be made for the "reasonableness" of this sort or wiretap. (Wiretap is, of course, the wrong word to use for what is actually occuring.)

Originally posted by StarLordBy NOT going after those folks that have tapped your telephone conversations, the NSA & the Telephone companies they used to do this.. have been protected.
Question is WHO gave the orders to quash the investigation??

As is typical of politicians, the early calls for "Investigation, Investigation!!!" led to polling, which caused the opposition party to wake up and smell the electorate coffee. 70% of voters are in agreement that the program is not only not intrusive, but also absolutely necessary. Politicians might be stupid, but they know how to read a poll.

Any administration that did not avail itself of this capability post 9/11 would face immediate impeachment upon the successful completion of any subsequent terrorist action on U.S. soil.

What else you got?

Harte

Harte,

Let's see if I have your excuse right. You are saying that an "Intelligence Agency" is giving a spiel for what their actions have been regarding our private telephone calls, and you believe them?

Isn't that like the CIA tell people that it has never interfered with other countries affairs and expecting people to swallow that crap??

Originally posted by Harte
The same thing could be accomplished overseas, could it not? I mean, had we the allies, we could set up these programs in other countries, completely bypassing your argument here.

Well, funnily enough... The US runs a system called Echelon which is a monster eavesdropping system. It's kept pretty secret but is believed to be partly run from the US base in England at Menwith Hill.

In the greatest surveillance effort ever established, the US National Security Agency (NSA) has created a global spy system, codename ECHELON, which captures and analyzes virtually every phone call, fax, email and telex message sent anywhere in the world. ECHELON is controlled by the NSA and is operated in conjunction with the Government Communications Head Quarters (GCHQ) of England, the Communications Security Establishment (CSE) of Canada, the Australian Defense Security Directorate (DSD), and the General Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) of New Zealand. These organizations are bound together under a secret 1948 agreement, UKUSA, whose terms and text remain under wraps even today.

There's a pretty good page here.

There's some evidence that they use this capability not merely to keep an eye on terrorists, but to give advantage to US corporations in trying to win contracts, for example. From Wikipedia:

In the greatest surveillance effort ever established, the US National Security Agency (NSA) has created a global spy system, codename ECHELON, which captures and analyzes virtually every phone call, fax, email and telex message sent anywhere in the world. ECHELON is controlled by the NSA and is operated in conjunction with the Government Communications Head Quarters (GCHQ) of England, the Communications Security Establishment (CSE) of Canada, the Australian Defense Security Directorate (DSD), and the General Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) of New Zealand. These organizations are bound together under a secret 1948 agreement, UKUSA, whose terms and text remain under wraps even today.

And from the other source quoted:

Commercial espionage: Since the demise of Communism in Eastern Europe, the intelligence agencies have searched for a new justification for their surveillance capability in order to protect their prominence and their bloated budgets. Their solution was to redefine the notion of national security to include economic, commercial and corporate concerns. An office was created within the Department of Commerce, the Office of Intelligence Liaison, to forward intercepted materials to major US corporations. In many cases, the beneficiaries of this commercial espionage effort are the very companies that helped the NSA develop the systems that power the ECHELON network. This incestuous relationship is so strong that sometimes this intelligence information is used to push other American manufacturers out of deals in favor of these mammoth US defense and intelligence contractors, who frequently are the source of major cash contributions to both political parties.

So it's not really about terrorism any more. It's rather sneakier and much less "free market" than that. It's the military-industrial complex gone mad.

Originally posted by StarLord
Harte,

Let's see if I have your excuse right. You are saying that an "Intelligence Agency" is giving a spiel for what their actions have been regarding our private telephone calls, and you believe them?

Isn't that like the CIA tell people that it has never interfered with other countries affairs and expecting people to swallow that crap??

The CIA has never told me anything like what you say here. They always say they can't comment, don't they?

Besides, if you think of the sheer volume of calls made from outside in and from inside out of the U.S. everyday, you can come to see that there's just no way these calls can be recorded, or listened in on, just like I said.

Oh, yeah. What else you got?

Harte

Naah... they'd never do anything like listen to everyone's 'phone calls and put everything into a massive database so they have a record of everyone's footprint, including biometric data, 'gait analysis' so they can track people on CCTV, that kind of thing.

Would they? WOULD THEY??

And you can see the (now deleted) rather sinister original logo of the Total Information Awareness program here. Illuminati control, anyone?

(and just to clear that one up, I don't really believe in the Illuminati: I just find the use of the symbolism rather fascinating.

Harte,

What I "do have" is quite a lot of Americans majorly pissed off at the Powers that be for refusing to Up Hold The Constitution. You know, that peice of parchment written so very long ago by people that knew just how corrupt a government could get, so, they took their sweet ass time to put the Constution together to protect trusting individuals like you and I.

What I "do have" is the sense from the latest news is that the government has chosen to ignore my rights as a Citizen of the United States SYSTEMATICALLY, each time they choose to cover their own collective ass under the guise of protecting us.

Sorry, I don't need the ceiling to fall on me to discover the beginings of a leak in my roof. How about you?

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