Opus Dei Rituals

A quick background of Opus Dei for those who are not familiar;

www.opusdei.org...

Opus Dei is a Catholic institution founded by Saint Josemaría Escrivá. Its mission is to spread the message that work and the circumstances of everyday life are occasions for growing closer to God, for serving others, and for improving society.

I am really intrigued with Opus Dei and what its real purpose is. It was founded in 1928 by Saint Josemaría Escrivá, and it continues on today.

It is portrayed in a bit of the negative light in DaVinci code however it did seem to be slightly accurate.

Self sacrifice seems to be evident on every level of Opus Dei.

Celibacy is commonly practiced, so the members can quickly be uprooted and carry out the wishes of god. A man tied with marriage would have commitments to restrain him, so Celibacy is something they are recognized as sacrificing.

Segregation is practiced in the church, is this an admittance that the church doubts the commitment of its members? Maybe its just easier to segregate?

The Cilice is something that I find very strange.



This deffinately has to be recognized as the greatest self sacrifice of Opus Dei. The pain that must be endured from the cilice can not be measured. How can they explain that god would wish this upon him? Jesus forgave those who trespassed him while on the cross, why would Opus Dei feel it necessary to torture themselves in the name of Christ?

This corporal mortification is simply uncomprehensible. Wearing this for the standard hour or two a day, symbolizes what? Is this supposed to be a test of the commitment from Opus Dei members?

The women of Opus Dei are treated as if its still medieval times. I do not understand how the women of this church can simply ignore the progress the woman has made over the past century. For the work of god? A god that you presume would wish the cilice upon you? You sacrificing this pain benefits who? How?

Any other members interested in the Opus Dei rituals? Thoughts.. Comments?

Are these members brainwashed from the beginning? Or are they willing members of a church where they see a valid cause.

The women of Opus Dei are treated as if its still medieval times. I do not understand how the women of this church can simply ignore the progress the woman has made over the past century. For the work of god? A god that you presume would wish the cilice upon you? You sacrificing this pain benefits who? How?

I wasnt aware that they treated women any differently than any other catholic faith - do you have any further information on this??

I always thought the cilice was meant for them to be able to share the pain that Jesus had to suffer for them, as a way of bringing them closer to him?

Fundamental fear mongering. thats what comes to mind when i think of Opus dei.

Its all insanity. i dont even need to justify myself.

Originally posted by Ezekiel

I wasnt aware that they treated women any differently than any other catholic faith - do you have any further information on this??

In the modern eye is the woman viewed in the same light? Is the brunt of the chores rested upon the shoulders of the woman? Are women segregated against in the modern era?

Originally posted by ArchangelOfCool
I always thought the cilice was meant for them to be able to share the pain that Jesus had to suffer for them, as a way of bringing them closer to him?

From what I have read you are right, but what I was questioning is how punishing ones self through this flat out torture, how is a person any closer to Christ? I see it as nothing more than a pyscological commitment from the members, it tests ones commitment so the powers above can determine who is dedicated to the cause. However they are simply led to believe that is a required ritual to bring the individual closer to Christ, to feel his pain.

Why would Christ want you to feel his pain? He was sacrificed, why would he want his sons and daughters to sacrifice themselves? Suicide is something frowned upon, why is corporal mortification something accepted?

I would say that there are a lot of religions that practice this. The act of whipping one's self is called "Self Flagellation". If you've looked at the practices of the Shia in Iraq, you will see parades of people tapping knives on their heads, drenching themselves in their own blood. Some Sufi orders have been observed to nail nails into their skulls during religious gatherings.

Also, any time a person becomes an ascetic, they are mortifying the flesh. When a holy man goes out into the wilderness, wears ragged clothes, endures the pain of frost and sun, he is doing the same thing. Christianity has a long history of this.

As part of some of the early baptism rituals, a person that was going to be baptised would wear a goat-skin tunic, which was dirty and irritating, and even 'trample' upon it, with the pricking of the feet being a phsyical reminder.

Opus Dei isn't doing anything that hasn't been practiced by a lot of groups for a long time, and that is often considered extremely pious.

Besides, a chilice isn't doing any more damage than getting your nose peirced, or having a needle repeatedly jab your skin in order to inject dye. Half the stuff seen on Jackass or Wild Boyz is far more dangerous and painful than the chilice must be.

Besides, a chilice isn't doing any more damage than getting your nose peirced, or having a needle repeatedly jab your skin in order to inject dye. Half the stuff seen on Jackass or Wild Boyz is far more dangerous and painful than the chilice must be.

But still Why? I understand its probably not the most excrushiating pain anyone has felt but is this really supposed to make them feel closer to Jesus? Are we expected to believe that Christ would want people to cause themself any sort of physical pain?

its probably not the most excrushiating pain anyone has felt but is this really supposed to make them feel closer to Jesus? Are we expected to believe that Christ would want people to cause themself any sort of physical pain?

Wikipedia has an article upon it.

Here

"The Rev. Michael Geisler, spiritual director of Opus Dei in St. Louis, wrote two articles attempting to explain the theological purpose behind corporal mortification. "Self-denial helps a person overcome both psychological and physical weakness, gives him energy, helps him grow in virtue and ultimately leads to salvation. It conquers the insidious demons of softness, pessimism and lukewarm faith that dominate the lives of so many today.""

Originally posted by nephyx
Fundamental fear mongering. thats what comes to mind when i think of Opus dei.

Its all insanity. i dont even need to justify myself.

Yes, you do, if you want anyone to understand why you believe this...And you'll have to qualify the statement of fundamental fear mongering...I'm unaware of a focus on fire and brimstone in Opus Dei. (Speaking as a member, not a mod )

The Da Vinci Code talks a lot about Opus Dei and "corporal mortification". Mortification would be something denying ones self, such as fasting or something along those lines. The corporal element of this would mean doing physical harm to one's body. While the Catholic Church does not deny there have been Catholics who have done this, it is, by no means, the norm, and nor is it encouraged in Opus Dei. The cilice is used by members in a very limited sense, but the physical harm that could result from wearing it is by no means as great as Brown says.

. In any event, the practice of mortification as lived in Opus Dei gives more emphasis to everyday sacrifices than to these greater sacrifices, and is not like the distorted and exaggerated depiction in The Da Vinci Code.

Opus Dei and corporal mortification

Self-sacrifice may be evident on every level of Opus Dei, but that is only because self-sacrifice is evident on every level of Christianity.

Originally posted by chissler
is this really supposed to make them feel closer to Jesus?

Sure, why not? Those who suffer were favoured by jesus, lepers, the sick, the poor, etc. Christians were urged to not give up the faith, or even to just not say that they've given up the faith, even if they are tortured and fed alive to ravenous animals.

Are we expected to believe that Christ would want people to cause themself any sort of physical pain?

Why not? What is physical pain in the grand scheme of things? I'm certainly not a fan of it, but I don't see why it can't make some sense in a religious outlook. I mean, agian, look at the old idea of yogis on the mountain, who endure weather, hardship, the discomfort of staying in one position, all to 'transcend' the physcial and get in touch with the metaphysical. Its the same idea behind fasting also.


What does, for example, standing upon a pillar for years have to do with jesus? Well, apparently it can make you a saint.

All of these things, flagellation, mortification of the flesh, fasting, wearing 'hair shirts', ritual body peircing and tatooing, even the martial arts, they are all about the denial and surpression of the self in exchange for a connection and conformity with the metaphysical.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by chissler
is this really supposed to make them feel closer to Jesus?

Sure, why not? Those who suffer were favoured by jesus, lepers, the sick, the poor, etc. Christians were urged to not give up the faith, or even to just not say that they've given up the faith, even if they are tortured and fed alive to ravenous animals.

Not exactly, Nyg. While both those statements are true, they don't reach the heart of the matter. Quite simply, a Christian's call is to serve God, first and foremost. Now, I don't know about you, but I know there are times when I not only do the wrong thing (that which I know in my head to be something I shouldn't do), but even plan to do the wrong thing. Why do I do the things I don't like? There are two reasons that I've come to understand, though I'm sure there are more. First, it is because I live often in the immediate instead of the future. I'm going to get this immediate gratification, and pay dearly for it later (ex. getting drunk). The other reason would be that I love me more than anyone or anything else. I cater to myself. "It's all about me, it's all about I, it's all about number 1". So, to combat those behaviors, Christians deny themselves things, putting their minds and hearts in control over their flesh instead of the other way around. As such, we can shift our focus from ourselves, and redirect it where it belongs: on God.

I know Opus Dei people. Nothing special. Just Catholics with a rather strong attachment to the RCC.

Here in Northern NM and Southern Colo. we have a RCC sect known as the Pentitentes. They also suffer mortification of the flesh and, so I've heard, very strange rituals. The Pentententes are very private and never wear their religion on there sleeve for others to admire. They may have a connection to Opus Dei but I doubt it as The Pentitentes are strictly a male oriented endeavor.

I really admire these guys for their dedication to their religion and their community and their quiet faith and reverence to the land.

Just finished watching a documentary on Opus Dei and I have found this sect to be somewhat nefarious in the way they recruit.They align themselves to the elite of the business,political,law enforcement,etc world and educate these peoples children at their schools to further propagate their ideals and to accumulate wealth.
They have doctrination which to my way of thinking falls nothing short of brainwashing and smacks of elitism.
With phrases taught to the children as 'The concience needs forming so as to not act autonomously'..,'If you were born a worker you should die a worker'...seems to me that it wants slavery and power over the betterment of the human condition.
Numeries,(which is the term used to describe the initiates into the order) take a vow of chastity and poverty and dedicate their whole pay to Opus Dei,which in itself takes away individuality,they are told what they can read and what they can watch,and that they are not allowed to speak or even see the numeries assistants (the staff that cooks and cleans..who incidently have to lead the same life as the numeries,chastity,poverty and the dedication of pay to Opus Dei.)
Ironically they built the largest library in South America at a cost of ten million US dollars, but the restriction on the types of volumes they are allowed have kept the shelves relatively bare.
There are over 90,000 members worldwide in 81 countries,21 in the EU, which make it the largest sect within the catholic church.
90,000 slaves to do the bidding of sect that are secretive,wealth orientated and hungry for power over the masses of the earth,started by a man who thought dictatorial rule was the only way to govern.

Amazing, I Agree with you totally
They r very big and very powerfull what makes this more interesting is that they are in league with the vatican and it is common knowledge that the catholic religeon is one of the biggest and most powerfull.

Nice thread chissler

Omega


[edited to remove big post -nygdan]



[edit on 16-5-2006 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by junglejake
I cater to myself. "It's all about me, it's all about I, it's all about number 1".

And mortification of the flesh and denial of the phsyical self through fasting, wearing a chilice, or even accepting hardships as part of 'god's plan' are all attempts to address such that egoism.

The thing that is unique perhaps about Opus Dei is that its 'purpose' is to get the laity really invovled in the faith, rather than merely participating in public masses. To incorporate them into the faith itself, as part of it, rather than a public that is outside of it, serperated from teh 'church' by Preists, to bring them into the "Working of God".

Numeries,(which is the term used to describe the initiates into the order) take a vow of chastity and poverty and dedicate their whole pay to Opus Dei,

This is what every monk in the world does. If you want to be a good tibetan priest you have to do the same thing. If you want to be a disciple of a yogi, you are expected to do the same thing. Give up the self for the faith. I don't buy into it, but lets not make Opus Dei out as unsually hideous because its members are devoted.

the staff that cooks and cleans..who incidently have to lead the same life as the numeries

Yes, thats the idea, they you can't just sit around, go to church on a sunday, eat a cookie, and expect that everything is going to be allright. You'll be 'saved' of course, but you won't be living 'properly', yes properly as defined by 'them', but no one if snatching people off the streets and forcing them to agree with their definition of proper anyway.

which make it the largest sect within the catholic church.

Excluding, of course, the regular church members.

90,000 slaves to do the bidding of sect that are secretive,wealth orientated and hungry for power over the masses of the earth,started by a man who thought dictatorial rule was the only way to govern.

THe same could be said for any religion where the people are pious and beleive in it. No one has ever been shown to have done anything criminal because of an Opus Dei 'overlords' demands, or anything like it.

Hi all
Opus dei the work of god or is it working for god?

About this i would like to say three things:

1º Every supranumerary pays a % from their income to the cause of Opus dei. So, by that way they can provide resources for the numeraries who practice celibacy and for their schools were they spread this kind of religious work. Religious ponzi pyramid, that's what it is!

2º I remember an Opus dei priest telling this about the cilice, quoting" It is easier to use the cilice for two hours than remove the lower sheet of the bed"

3º The founder once said: quote "Work is the way to contribute to the progress of society; even more, it is a way to holiness." i could say something similar, like "Arbeit Macht Frei" meaning "Work Liberates" or "work makes you free". Seeing something in common?


Peace
Crustas

[edit on 16-5-2006 by crustas]

perasonally i think then opus dei is no different to any other cult out there there just a bunch of brain washers, but hey thats my opinion,

heres some sites you may ind usuful about them
www.odan.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.americamagazine.org...

on the out side it seems they are doing the 'work of god' but its not untill you wiggle your way past the pleasentries you find the true practacies of this sect.
another site i found useful this gives a full history of the founder etc
www.geocities.com...

youd be surprised the type of people that have been taken in by them

Not sure how much I would dig into a geocities site. Anyone can create one and copy and paste any old thing they read on the net.

The Opus Dei recruiting method is nothing new. The Jesuits educated the kings and Business men of Europe and America whenever they had the oportunity, it was both beneficial for them (ie: look at all the knights of Malta in important places) and to society in general. A Teacher of mine who was a former Oxford dean used to call the Jesuits the "creme dela creme" of intellect, and I will have to agree with him- they never marry, so all their lives is spent in study and useful things such as improving society in general. I suggest people here watch "The Mission" a film which shows how they operated in Latinamerica (and how the Spanish Goverment and conquistadores then killed all the Indian settlements they were building, very sad movie, a classic). Of course, it can be argued that the Jesuits and Jesuit generals are the "CIA" of the RCC and that based on their previous history it is not impossible for them to be engaged in sometimes unethical operations.