What is the possibility that this site is run by the government?

Originally posted by Valhall
What is the possibility...I can only speak on probability.

For the sake of argumental fun, you don't see a fundamental flaw in your explanation?

NN

Originally posted by NoNik

Originally posted by Valhall
What is the possibility...I can only speak on probability.

For the sake of argumental fun, you don't see a fundamental flaw in your explanation?

NN

No, I don't. Want to elaborate? (Details are usually very useful in these situations.)

Originally posted by Crazy_Mr_Crowley
Alot of the moderators here seem to be violently opposed to the idea that 9/11 was an inside job so I had to ask.

That statement is absolutely incorrect. I know for a certainty that the three owners (myself included) have exceptionally strong opinions that the US (and a few other) governments have deep complicity in the events leading up to and during 9/11/2001. However, many of us have several years of experience in "conspiracy theory" topics, and that experience tempers our analysis of the given data. Many "9/11 conspiracy" sites are mere hobbyist affairs by people brand new to the idea of conspiracy theory research and analysis.

For example, my years of experience in these areas (combined with experience in UFO research) tells me the "government" spends considerable effort creating conspiracy theories in an effort to deflect attention from the real conspiracy. As a result, I tend to think a passenger airline struck the Pentagon but was coordinated by people/agencies well beyond what we're being told... and there is a coordinated effort to deflect attention from that idea by circulating a myriad of conflicting and wildly fantastic alternative conspiracy theories.

For the people who think 9/11 was an inside job or at least going far enough to say they don't trust Bush congrats. I don't have a beef with you people.

Then you don't have a beef with the three owners of this site. Uh... so... um... where's the beef?


This is a massive website with a lot of information. However, people, like yourself (and even me from time to time) tend to get caught up one one angle of one topic through a handful of interesting threads. As a result, controversial positions from those threads tend to consume you (me) and overwhelm your overall opinion of what goes on here. A few vocal members who may disagree with "popular" conspiracy mythos does not indicate the editorial stance of the entire website. But, in our occasional preoccupation with a topic, it can often "feel" that way.

My suggestion is to expand your "ATS Experience" and discover what's really here. There's a lot of people learning to ask hard questions and developing important critical thinking traits. I can't think of any "government sponsored" effort that promotes that... can you?

The probability for a site such as ATS to be run by the governement is 0.015886484384.

The probability that someone amongst the membership of ATS would ask such a question 0.999999998 .

What is the possibility that this site is run by the government?

Whether it is or is not being run by the government , the fact is that dialog is still taking place. That is all that matters.

Bibliophile

[edit on 5/11/2006 by Bibliophile]

Originally posted by Valhall
No, I don't. Want to elaborate? (Details are usually very useful in these situations.)

I didn't think it was that hard to see.

Originally posted by Valhall
I live with one of them. He is not with the government

If he were, in fact, with the government, you would state such?

NN

Originally posted by Crazy_Mr_Crowley
Since I don't know anything about the people who created and the people who run this site lets just think for a minute.

Here's an idea....Stop right there!

Spend some time on the boards to get to know not just the owners, administrators, and mods....but the devoted members we have here...

Then maybe you'd come to realize what ATS truly is!

But then again - I could just be a PR agent who is giving you a scripted reply, right?

I've got "no beef" with people asking questions like this....But at least learn to use the search feature and contribute to the other threads devoted to this rather comical, albeit frustrating topic...

Originally posted by NoNik

Originally posted by Valhall
No, I don't. Want to elaborate? (Details are usually very useful in these situations.)

I didn't think it was that hard to see.

Originally posted by Valhall
I live with one of them. He is not with the government

If he were, in fact, with the government, you would state such?

NN

Yeah, it was hard to see, because I know me...so the me got in the way of what you see as very obvious.

This is my sincere answer to you - NO! I would not state such, BUT I WOULD ALSO NOT SAY HE WASN'T. That's the important part here. I'm not going to lie to anybody about anything that is that important. You'd see me uncharacteristically "silent" on this matter if my husband worked for the government.

If I was asked to offer up what I'm most proud of in what I've gotten done in my life it would be this: Irrespective of what achievements in my personal life or professional life or whatever (whatever including my membership here which I treasure very much) - I've tried to remain extremely ethical in all things I have done. The sole question that guides me - no matter what I'm doing - is "will this hurt my fellow man (fellow man being the lot of them, not just one person)?" And if the answer is anything less than a confident NO in my heart - I won't do it, I won't assist it.

So with that said about me...I'm telling you that I wouldn't state a lie about something this serious...because lying about that would hurt my fellow ATS members. And it WOULD hurt my fellow ATS members!

DAMN!! the plan has been uncovered again....!!

Let me clear this all up for once and for all,

Bohemian Grove is the ATS HQ
All the owners are the three leaders of a covert World Government
All mods are CIA/MI6/Mossad agents
All FSME's are illuminati priests
All Council members are freemasons
All members are RFID tagged

Just an observation, but you feel unsure about ATS, but on another thread you was told C2C was a source of disinformation, which you totally rebuffed.
Your response to him was....

"disinfo outlet? Hardly. if it was a disinfo outlet they would have said Oswald was the lonegunmen instead of mafia and cia.

They even talk about the Illuminati and the New World Order from time to time. They just don't announce those shows ahead of time.

I fail to see how it's a disinfo outlet. They talk about all kinds of things that the corporate media won't touch. "

Now dont take offenses, but im curious what makes the difference between the two.
Why so strongly believe in one and not the other?

For ref. 5th post down.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If this site was run by the government, i don't think we'd see half the content that we see here on a daily basis.

I do enjoy posts like this, if it was'nt hot and sunny outside already, my day would be still be sunny and smiley after reading this!

Originally posted by Valhall

Yeah, it was hard to see, because I know me...so the me got in the way of what you see as very obvious.

This is my sincere answer to you - NO! I would not state such, BUT I WOULD ALSO NOT SAY HE WASN'T. That's the important part here. I'm not going to lie to anybody about anything that is that important. You'd see me uncharacteristically "silent" on this matter if my husband worked for the government.

If I was asked to offer up what I'm most proud of in what I've gotten done in my life it would be this: Irrespective of what achievements in my personal life or professional life or whatever (whatever including my membership here which I treasure very much) - I've tried to remain extremely ethical in all things I have done. The sole question that guides me - no matter what I'm doing - is "will this hurt my fellow man (fellow man being the lot of them, not just one person)?" And if the answer is anything less than a confident NO in my heart - I won't do it, I won't assist it.

So with that said about me...I'm telling you that I wouldn't state a lie about something this serious...because lying about that would hurt my fellow ATS members. And it WOULD hurt my fellow ATS members!

OK then! Close the books and head home everyone!

Listen, I can't see any connection with the government here but your 'proof positive' just don't cut it. I'm sure Ted Bundy made similar overtures to some of his victims.

Unless you are known personally then the 'I'm as honest as the day is long' routine is just talk.

Nothing personal as I'm sure you are who you say. Just trying to show the other side.

Maybe I live in some sort of altered reality but here's the way I see it:

There are cameras mounted all over town and at every intersection where I live.
If you own a relatively new cell phone you are carrying a GPS system. If you have OnStar make it two. Cell phone transmissions are easy to listen in on anyway, now a person can track your exact location if s/he wanted.
Count the number of little plastic tags hooked to your key chain, these help in the data mining process by tracking your spending habits and the locations where you shop.
Do you use only cash or do you whip out the plastic? All those transactions go into a data base.
IPS's and the like are easy to track.
Google Earth - now that was a bit hair raising. Do you imagine that technology like that could ever be misused?
Did our president not condone spying on us?
Have you signed up for your RF tag yet?
The fact is that the government does not need a website like this to track us.
They can already track us. They can already tell what library books we read, what magazines we buy, where we shop, where we like to eat, where we hang out, and they could even watch us sunbath in our back yards. I was recently mailed a traffic ticket with a photograph so clear that you could read the luggage tags on my bag in the back seat.
I believe ATS would not be run by the government because the government already knows all about me that it wants to know about me.
I was arrested last year following a protest and an officer was able to tell me my favorite colour, it was on my records, even though I had never been arrested before.
The government simply doesn't need something like ATS.

I'm not sure about government run..But some of the people on this site seem to belong to some group, an accult, mystic, indigo ,or what ever.. which is their business. But some seem to be more open about their views.. I was in a room(forget which one) and someone wrote, ATS teaches us to be paranoid and ask alot of questions....The word--- teaches---seems to me an interesting word here...

I did a long analysis of why this site isn't CIA for a similar thread some time back.

Basically...
1. Government is supposed to be eliminating the problem of free information and NOT contributing to it.
2. It can always put agents on privately owned sites like this one (which I'm sure it is doing). These people not only report back but they can post any amount of miss information they like. Of course if people knew it were miss-information they would be in trouble but the whole point about misinformation is that people don't.

3. It has some excellent computer staff and plenty of more money to hire them. It has some excellent computers which make the processing power of your or my PC look like something out of the Stone Age.

4. Apparently anti-terrorist legislation already causes any U.K telecommunications companies to co-operate in handing over any individual’s user information to the government. It's probably the same in the U.S too.

5. If the government or whoever is funding this site then don't you think that what they are doing is a very good thing? I've never been arrested but i've said and learnt some very important points so far so good. I'm sure the CIA does have spoof websites but when you think about it, it’s best to monitor open forum political sites and not to create them.

Originally posted by Crazy_Mr_Crowley
Yet we have alot of people who seem so violently opposed to the idea that people within government are capable of harming it's own citizens.

ATS has some members who still follow and support Bush, it's true. And ATS is a representative of the country and the world. I still see Bush bumper stickers. I have a good friend that supports Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the wars in Iraq and Iran. I don't understand it, I'm baffled by it, in fact. But these people do exist.

And because they exist in the country and the world, they're going to exist here on ATS, because ATS represents the world.

Here's a poll taken a while back about 9/11. As regards the mods and admins believing the 'official story', I'd like to see where you got that impression. For one thing, Roarke is not a mod and he abstained from voting in the poll. The only mod I know that vehemently disagrees with a complicit government action is Agent Smith and his vote was unclear.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Alot of the moderators here seem to be violently opposed to the idea that 9/11 was an inside job so I had to ask.

Where do you get this idea? Does one mod indicate 'most' to you? Perhaps if you make a list of these mods and compare it to the total number of mods, you'd find that this statement is FAR from accurate.

For the people who think 9/11 was an inside job or at least going far enough to say they don't trust Bush congrats. I don't have a beef with you people.

So, you don't have a beef with the people who agree with you...

... there are still people on here who shouldn't put so much faith in the Bush Administration.

Your beef is with those who think in a way that disagrees with your thinking...

Don't get me wrong, I agree that the Bush administration was totally complicit in 9/11 and it's the worst, most corrupt government we've ever had and they will be the demise of this country as we know it... But that doesn't change my view of our Constitutional rights to think, feel and speak what we believe. All of us. Even the people who think Bush is a saint.

ATS does its very best to provide a place for all sides of the story to be discussed. They're not like most boards, who take an official stance on any one subject. I know I can express my opinion here and even if the owners disagree with me, as long as I don't break the agreements I made when I joined, I'm free to express my opinion. So is everyone. You're going to hear all kinds of 'crazy' opinions.

By the way you describe your complaint, it's with the minority of the people here. You're basically blaming ATS for letting Howard Roarke and a few Bush supporters speak their minds... What would you have ATS do? Ban the people who believe the official 9/11 story and silence the Bush supporters so we could live in happy ignorance of their existence?

They'd still be out there, but we wouldn't have to know about them. That's the height of ignorance! That's what Bush does with the news. He only reads the news that favors him because he doesn't want to hear people who disagree with him.

So, what you're saying is that if ATS operated like George Bush, screening out the opinions they disagree with, you'd not doubt their sincerity, but since they let everyone who has an opinion share it, you're accusing them of being government run... I'm sorry, dude, but that's just twisted...

And in fact, if they did screen out opposing opinions, I'd be outta here. I have no need for anyone who IGNORES the 'other side' or silences opposing opinions. That's just... close-minded and very Bush-like, in my opinion...

Don't believe anybody, this place is most certainly run by the gov't. The new server upgrade was the final step to tie all of us directly into the NSA domestic wiretap system. The only way around it it to use a 300 baud modem the size of a NYC phonebook instead of DSL or broadband. And make sure to paint it green.

To add to that, the lightbulb in my kitchen burned out for the second time in less than a month. There's my proof!

Now, excuse me, I need to respond to this very interesting email from Nigeria from somebody who has chosen me, from everybody else on the internet, to transfer milllions of dollars to because of a car wreck that somebody over there had. Or somethin' like that.

[edit on 11-5-2006 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by Crazy_Mr_Crowley
Alot of the moderators here seem to be violently opposed to the idea that 9/11 was an inside job so I had to ask.

It's easy to confuse "critical appraisal" with "violent opposition" when the subject being appraised is a pet theory which you may be emotionally attached to. I can only think of one moderator whom I would consider to be "violently opposed" to the idea of 9-11 being an inside job, and even he leans more towards the LIHOP (let it happen on purpose) camp, as opposed to the MIHOP (made it happen on purpose) camp. One moderator is a far cry from "a lot". Can you name two?

For the people who think 9/11 was an inside job or at least going far enough to say they don't trust Bush congrats. I don't have a beef with you people.

And what of the staff who do not think that 9-11 was an inside job, but think that the Bush administration is guilty of election fraud? What of the staff who doubt 9-11 foul play, but believe that world governments may be concealing contact with extra-terrestrials? What of those who study mind control and MK-ULTRA? Considering that all the evidence for 9-11 being an inside job is circumstantial, unable to be verified, or endless arguing over the physics of building collapses, it would seem that using 9-11 as a litmus test for a group of diverse people's conspiracy theory advocacy is a fundamentally flawed methodology.

And as far as proof I have no proof this website is run by government agents and nobody can give me proof that it isn't run by government agents.

You are correct, there is no way of proving either way, unless the Amigos invite you round for a beer or two and you get to know them personally. But what we can do is show you some of the efforts that admin and staff have put into exposing and investigating conspiracy. SO listed a bunch of threads that have attempted to find and expose the truth about the dastardly deeds of government and the powers that be. Perhaps looking at who started, supported, or participated in those threads will give you a bit more of a perspective:

Project Northwoods. America's plan to attack America. - mrwupy - Moderator

9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon - Pro-official-story thread by Catherder, who clashed with staff when he had an ego blowout/tantrum over his thread and over the opposition to it's conclusion

The Diebold Factor - Gools - Moderator

I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp - Valhall - some-time Moderator, family member of an ATS Partner, and ATS' most respected contributor

11/29/63 Conversation Between Johnson & Hoover (JFK Assassination) - Valhall

An Analysis of the Zapruder Film - Valhall

English Words and Western Voices Heard on Nick Berg Beheading Video - Valhall again

Was Nicholas Berg Executed by the CIA? - William One Sac - Administrator

The Omega Agency Research Project - Dragonrider - (former moderator, I think)

A Conspiracy Against Children: Exactly who is out of control? - Loam - Subject Matter Expert

Physics Prof Says Explosives, Not Fires Brought Down WTC Towers - wecomeinpeace -

2004 U.S. Election Results Overview & Discussion - SkepticOverlord - ATS Partner

The Case for Roswell: Part I. - Gazrok - Supermoderator

U.N. Oil For Food Scandal Grows. Possibly the Largest in Human History. - dbates - Moderator

JFK: The Ultimate Explanation -- The Involvement of George Bush Sr. - Links plastered all over the site by SkepticOverlord

So really, if the owners, admin and staff of ATS are government agents, then they're doing a truly pathetic job of covering things up. There's no way we can prove to you that ATS is NOT run by the government, but if you spend enough time here, I'm supremely confident that you will come to that very conclusion all by yourself.



[edit on 2006-5-11 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
There's no way we can prove to you that ATS is NOT run by the government, but if you spend enough time here, I'm supremely confident that you will come to that very conclusion all by yourself.

Crazy Mr C- And once that's been answered to your satisfaction, you can move on to Phase II: They're in it for the money!.

But first things first. Continue with Phase I...

:bnghd: