North Wales paedophilia ring exposed: Masonic involvement.

E Pirate - I'd respectfully request you at least examine the difference between "Involvement by Masons", which this apparently was, and "Masonic Involvement", which would be completely different.

There are some real monsters out there and no single group is completely immune from having them in their membership. But member involvement vs. systematic involvement of the organization are two very different things.

And NO, I'm not a Mason, Elk, Moose, Boy Scout, college frat guy, or member of any other fraternal, or organized social, political, or religious organization.

Following up on ML's thought, ponder this wee nugget:

Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate
Count yourself very lucky Inklosed, your gaurdian angel must be watching over you..

Becomng a Mason is a curse not a privilege.

Let me just chuck out some titbits from my exp. of these guys..

Sexually voracious young women are sent to become frieds with young male Masons, sounds good eh? well, only problem, all those girls are infected with STD's.. D'oh. The tower of power is watching you and chastising accordingly.

Masons must be very careful when they go to a public place... Masons follow fellow Masons every they go to make sure they're being discreet.... Every time I've been out with Masons someone has stolen something from them....coincidence? oh no!

As an experiment I was out with a Mason, we got into conversation and at one point I said "The whole world is a conspiracy" at which point a group of five people all sat around us and pretended to be asleep... They'd been monitoring him the whole time.


Point is, if you have the arrogance to think you deserve special consideration and you should be one of the elite....then you will be rewarded in kind...

With hell. Nothing more nothing less. Masonry is a 'hell' system to catch all those talented and ambitious people who are not quite free from sin enough to realise that the world we live in is run on evil principles...

They are little flies caught in a spider's web.

It's just an ancient system that is faulty and in danger of destroying the world.

Time to fix it.

That's from about 3/4 the way down this thread. Gives one pause for thought about the author.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Ever since that time, he's devoted all his energies here in attacking those of us who exposed him as a fraud. You'll forgive me if I don't take him very seriously, I hope.

Even SkepticOverlord has commented on how it seems he is here just to cause trouble.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I guess he is hoping people have short memories.

I don't know why, but Masonic Light always chills me out. He's easily my favorite Mason.

I got a bit carried away with my comments here, and yes, it's because I was in a masonic religon as a kid. There's a book written by Fritz Springmeyer (yeah him) called "The Watchtower and the Masons" which I have been unable to find. Naturally, I believe suppression of this book is conspiratorial. I find that the connections between these two groups are extremely suppressed and distractions abound. When a obtain a copy of this book, I'm sure I'll be posting here about it (well, not in this thread).

I do know, that this Watchtower religion was started by Masons, has Masonic symbolism and colors everywhere, and a very oppressive, pyramid type structure. Also, they have thousands of child molestors in their ranks In their church, molestation is rampant because their rule is "A brother can only be convicted of a sin by TWO witnesses" ...Well what does this mean when a child gets abused? Since there's only one witness to the crime (the child) all a man needs to do is deny the allegation and he can continue molesting to his heart's content. Seriously, this religion is a pederasty paradise, and I find that righteousness tends to produce a desensitization of other's pain.

I mention this so that my motives are known. I don't hate Masons, I hate their secrecy and (my perception of) their contempt for the common man. I also hate the posters here (the most hard-core of whom have been banned like sebatwerk, etc) who exist only to defend their group, and who otherwise contribute nothing to ATS.

Anyway, if Masons are directly persecuted or faced with violence again as has happened in the past, I'll not participate in any such anti-mason activities. I don't hate the men, I hate the mechanism.


[edit on 9-5-2006 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by Masonic Light




"Hell is other people". - Jean-Paul Sartre

It's this type of arrogance displayed by the Masonic folks here at ATS that makes me think that maybe the Pirate might have something after all. If you can't respect your fellow man regardless of whether he is a mason or not, or agrees with your position on the state of human affairs, then maybe you don't deserve any respect either.

I hope the quote by Sarte is not indicative of the Masonic view of us uninitiated. Sadly I think it is, as I also have a few Masons in my family.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by whaaa]

Whaa I would suggest that you have a look around at some of the posts that have been made by Pirate towards Masons, andother members of the board. He has repeatedly shown great disrespect to them and I think that people like Masonic LIght have been VERY patient in responding to him.

I dont think its a case of not respecting Pirate because he is not a mason, but because he is a rude and disrespectful person who does nothing to further intelligent and thoughtful debate on these forums.

Well, from what little I know about the Masons, I'd have the say the vast majority of them are just guys looking for some time away from the wives to do...guy things, I would guess. Of course they like the secrecy and whatnot, who here didn't have a treehouse with a secret handshake and 'No Girls Allowed' sign hanging outside when they were a kid? Of course you'll come across the occasional bad apple in the bunch, it's inevitable. But I see the Masons as more of a much better organized treehouse. I enjoy a good conspiracy as much as the next guy, but I'd have to say the cnnection between the Maosns and pedophilia here is shaky at best. I can do exactly the same thing, watch:

A recently conducted survey by experienced, privately hired researchers has shown a startling, frightening connection. If these findings can be corroborated, a possibility deemed highly likely, there may be need for immediate, and massive restructuring of the nations chemical production associations.

Over 90% of all available, convicted, premeditated murderers were found to have consumed the chemical compound Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) within several hours of their crime. Dihydrogen Monoxide is a little known compound that can, nonetheless, be found in many household products, despite its dangerous side effects. Although touted to be one of the most useful substances known to man among its constituents, an overdose of directly inhaled DHMO can cause respiratory arrest requiring immediate hospitalization. Dihydrogen Monoxide is also an especially prevalent greenhouse gas, contributing to global warming. This fact is little known, and largely ignored by an unaware public and government. The recent connection between DHMO and murder is shocking, and must be addressed with all possible haste. Petition your local chemical cartels to stop the killing of our fellow humans and the planet now, before it’s too late.

So quickly, let's all run out and ban DHMO! It creates murderers! Nonsense. If we did that we would promptly die of dehydration. You see, the proper spin can make anything seem evil, and associating a couple warped minds with a multinational organization seems a bit farfetched to me. I'm not denying that there are probably still Masonic sects that see themselves as destined to rule, maybe they even communicate with a grand Masonic Master, or whatever his official title would be, but I would have to say the average urban middle-class Masonic Lodge is just a grown up boys treehouse with a fancy name and emblem. Just my $0.02...

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Axewerfer]

Why is it that these things always end up in character attacks?

Since being on this site i have had bad experiences with Masons i have however had a few good ones,i can give respect to most people and have tried my hardest to not cause heated arguments as time went on and deal with the problems that mainly concern my beliefs vs Freemasonry.

In simply stating one is Christian will inevitably bring insults slander ridicule etc

I have not seen where someone has stated that because these guys were caught in the act of a horrific crime that all Masons have committed the same offense.
Yet that seems to be used by anyone pro Mason for character attacks.I would certainly side with Masons against anyone who thinks one is guilty by association,but i give credit to the majority of people in the world in having common sense.

I do see the Mason motto "good men made better"a total lie and if Masons didn`t recognize it as a lie you should from this instance on.Either way its looked at,were these men worse than this before hand?how could that be?,and who said these men were good to begin with.Thats why Masons are here for damage control,its all about their image of great and respectable men which leads to further distrust or wild accusations.

Well Gods the judge of that ultimately and even Christ didn`t want to be referred to as good rather God is Good,and allows all to Him not a select few that he does back ground checks on to accept only those with no criminal records worthy.

Strange how Masons say its based on Biblical teachings when its not from the get go?

The Bible also says swear not oaths,yet Masons swear blood oaths they are to up hold.
These and other reasons is why i will never become one,and distrust the org where many crimes could be hidden and covered up or bound to secrecy from fellow Masons in places of influence to protect the Masons image.

If this has offended decent Masons please read this again as i`m not accusing anyone here of committing crimes.

Originally posted by gps777
I do see the Mason motto "good men made better"a total lie and if Masons didn`t recognize it as a lie you should from this instance on. Either way its looked at,were these men worse than this before hand?

Dude, here is something I wrote earlier in the thread:

Originally posted by Roark
There is no magical transformation in a man's heart when he becomes a Freemason. The change occurs (as it does with non-Masons) with dedication, hard work and a commitment to principles.

Obviously these guys didn't take the positive teachings of Masonry very seriously, did they...

One purpose of Freemasonry is to make good men better. That is what we hope for anyway, just like any organisation which seeks to uphold higher principles.

Is it the fault of the teachings ("brotherly love, relief and truth"), or the organisation itself that this horrible act was perpetrated by Masons? The teachings are there to be learnt, but if people choose to ignore them, and wallow in their own degradation, that's their own sick business.

Would hold your own church and its teachings to be responsible if two perverts were discovered in the pews? No, you wouldn't.

So... "Good men made better". A lie? No. It's a challenge, and it is the responsibility of each man to better himself. You can't effectively teach someone who doesn't want to be taught.

Originally posted by gps777
Thats why Masons are here for damage control,its all about their image of great and respectable men which leads to further distrust or wild accusations.

I came here for the cryptozoology forum, myself. I think you'll find that most of the other Masons originally came here for intelligent conversation, but I'll leave it up to them to answer that.

We don't actually plot in the background and decide how we're going to work the PR angle. Freemasonry in Australia (where I live) doesn't even HAVE public relations, let alone scheming to infiltrate website forums that have no significant impact on the outside world. Our charity work is all done largely without accolade or acknowledgement. Anyway, enough trumpet-blowing. My intention was not really to talk about the charity work.

I will say, though, that it's VERY hard to resist getting sucked into rebutting outrageous lies, when the subject matter is something you actually know about. I guess that's why it sometimes appears as though there's a "co-ordinated Masonic front" here at ATS.

Originally posted by Roark
Dude, here is something I wrote earlier in the thread:
Originally posted by Roark
There is no magical transformation in a man's heart when he becomes a Freemason. The change occurs (as it does with non-Masons) with dedication, hard work and a commitment to principles.

Missed that Roark,i do like your terminology or understanding of it,though i still have a problem with the motto.

Obviously these guys didn't take the positive teachings of Masonry very seriously, did they...

Far from your understanding of a good man i`m sure.

One purpose of Freemasonry is to make good men better. That is what we hope for anyway, just like any organisation which seeks to uphold higher principles.

Ok fine,but i still have a problem with it for reasons i stated.

Is it the fault of the teachings ("brotherly love, relief and truth"), or the organisation itself that this horrible act was perpetrated by Masons? The teachings are there to be learnt, but if people choose to ignore them, and wallow in their own degradation, that's their own sick business.

I thought i made myself clear i musn`t have,no i do not and have not accused all Masons of being guilty by association.

Would hold your own church and its teachings to be responsible if two perverts were discovered in the pews? No, you wouldn't.

Of coarse not which is why this example is a bit offensive.I`ve never needed such examples to come to clarity.

So... "Good men made better". A lie? No. It's a challenge, and it is the responsibility of each man to better himself. You can't effectively teach someone who doesn't want to be taught.

I disagree Roak,it is a lie and those two men proved it to be,no man is good to begin with.if the motto was "to make common men better" it would sit better even though these men failed to be better.The wording says you were already good and you can be better than good through Freemasonry.

We don't actually plot in the background and decide how we're going to work the PR angle.

I believe you personally don`t Roark and i have read a long time ago in a thread you and i were involved in enough to know your a respectable type of bloke,and your actions from your words went a long way in me trusting you as a person.

Freemasonry in Australia (where I live) doesn't even HAVE public relations, let alone scheming to infiltrate website forums that have no significant impact on the outside world. Our charity work is all done largely without accolade or acknowledgement. Anyway, enough trumpet-blowing. My intention was not really to talk about the charity work.

I have also done a lot of charity work though i did`nt need to belong to a SS org to do it.But by the way great to hear from a fellow Aussie.

I will say, though, that it's VERY hard to resist getting sucked into rebutting outrageous lies,when the subject matter is something you actually know about.

Tell me about it fear not Roark i can sympathize pal,as a Christian by experience and little study draws a lot of heat,and Christianity draws plenty just being Christian.

I guess that's why it sometimes appears as though there's a "co-ordinated Masonic front" here at ATS.

I got ya,though i don`t trust all Mason`s as i would you,and respectfully as i can be hold no faith in freemasonry to begin with as from what i stated earlier and for other reasons.There are conflicts that stop me.




[edit on 10-5-2006 by gps777]

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I don't know why, but Masonic Light always chills me out. He's easily my favorite Mason.

Thanks!

There's a book written by Fritz Springmeyer (yeah him) called "The Watchtower and the Masons" which I have been unable to find. Naturally, I believe suppression of this book is conspiratorial.

Apparantly, it's only available as an e-book. You can download it here.

I do know, that this Watchtower religion was started by Masons, has Masonic symbolism and colors everywhere, and a very oppressive, pyramid type structure.

Due to some of his comments, it is believed by some that Charles Taze Russell was a Mason. However, no Lodge has a record of his membership, and it does not seem he was ever initiated into the fraternity.

Today, Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden to become Masons, or to remain Masons. Several years ago, a member of my Lodge became a JW, and resigned from Masonry because of this.

I mention this so that my motives are known. I don't hate Masons, I hate their secrecy and (my perception of) their contempt for the common man.

As a "common man" myself, I would argue that Masonry exists for the common man. From the very beginning, it was composed only of day laborers. After the fraternity became non-operative, and members of the nobility were admitted, it was still stressed that the king and street-sweeper were on the same level.

I don't hate the men, I hate the mechanism.

This may come as surprising to some, but I would say the problem is with the men in Masonry, rather than the Masonic organization. Brother Stephen DaFoe, webmaster of several Masonic and Knight Templar historical sites, once made the comment that the only problem with Masonry is the Masons. I agree 100%.

For example, gps777 said something about "Masonry making good men better" being a lie. It's not a lie, but an ideal. Masonry can make a good man better, but it can't, in the words of Pike, make a good man out of a born knave.

Some Lodges have become lax in their screening processes. According to the Antient Constitutions, only those of good moral character may be admitted. Unfortunately, some Lodges admit practically everyone who applies for membership without even the formality of a criminal background check.

Therefore, obviously, the Masonic fraternity is not responsible for the actions of such men, but these men drag all of us through the mud by their conduct. For example, I'm an American, have never been to England, and have never heard of these two sickos who raped that girl. Yet, because they were apparently Masons, they make me look bad too, even though I haven't done anything wrong, nor have most Masons. If Lodges would screen their applicants in the first place like they're supposed to, these kinds of people who belong in cages instead of Lodges would never gain admission.

Lets all worry less about the personalities involved here, which should be apparent either way, and focus more on the facts of the case.

Evil Beast

66 year old former police officer and Mason, Raymond Ketland, was invited by fellow lodge member Gary McIlroy to engage in pedophilia. Ketland was caught, and didn't tell the police officers that questioned him the identity of McIlroy.

Many others were involved in the sex acts, which sprung off from one location.

The leader of the ring is Richard Lawlor. Can anyone confirm that he is a mason? How about Gary Owen? Or anyone else invovled in the crimes?



So the sex ring was set up, maintained, and operated by Richard Lawlor, who would take out adds in magazines and such inviting people to have sex with the kid that he was holding. It looks like McIlroy did this, and then invited fellow lodge member Ketland to participate.

Ketland is from "Nant y Coed". What masonic lodge operates in that town? Maybe some of the masons here that are more familiar with the system can show how to identify the lodge from a directory? Perhaps the lodge officers would like to make a statement about this event?

After all, how is it that McIlroy felt safe enough to proposition Ketland about abusing a child? Is this something that the Welsh often do? Or does that logic not apply now?

Originally posted by Nygdan

Ketland is from "Nant y Coed". What masonic lodge operates in that town? Maybe some of the masons here that are more familiar with the system can show how to identify the lodge from a directory?

Here is the directory of Lodges in North Wales, under jurisdiction of the United Grand Lodge of England. Nant y Coed is not listed as having a Lodge, although it is possible that the offenders were members of one of the neighboring Lodges on the list.

Here is some information I have been able to get from the UGLE and associated websites.

The email address for UGLE inquiries is
[email protected]

This event occured in North Wales, and the email for that 'jurisdiction' is
[email protected]


I don't know exactly what lodge McIlroy and Ketland were in. These are the lodges for the region
www.ugle.org.uk...
And here is the North Wales masonry website
www.northwalesmasons.com...


I sent an email to the three addresses, asking if there is any official statement, have there been any guidlines issued for dealing with the police (likesay, insisting full cooperation or not), what punishments will be metted out, and if there will be an internal investigation.

Hopefully we will get a response.

Thanks ML! I had just gotten that info after looking for it, good to see I looked in the right place!

Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate
Here it is, proof from a veritable news source about Masonic involvement in a paedophilia ring.

I think ANY group has some bad people. Churches, Masons, Police, Government Workers, and yes...even Pirates.

Having one person or even a few people within a group involved in illegal activity is just what it is. Having someone trying to sensationalize that and claim the large blanket statement that all people in that group are involved is ridiculous (and in some cases racist or elitest.)

And trying to organize people from other discussion boards to come to ATS and actively attack Masons over this issue is childish at best.

Originally posted by Nygdan
After all, how is it that McIlroy felt safe enough to proposition Ketland about abusing a child? Is this something that the Welsh often do? Or does that logic not apply now?

Looking at the story it seems that McIlory, did not proposition Ketland. It was the unnamed Mason who did. The incident that Ketland was involved in looks to be part of the "dogging"* scene that that is getting popular over there.

*Dogging for those that don't know is having sex in public, in most cases in public parks, or lovers lane types of places. Unlike the typical lovers lane in the states, one of the "things" with dogging is being watched and sometimes joining in with others, so they publish when they are going to be err.. performing on message boards and places like that.

[edit on 5/10/2006 by Cug]

Love Masonic light as well. I bet he's a gentleman going to the Lodge for a cigar after another boring University class hehehe

Ahhh so the other accomplish's name still hasn't been released? Ketland is going to take it to the grave with him apparently? Interesting. This shoudl really be the focus of our investigation, since, right now, then , there is a pedophile in one of the lodges in north wales.

Does anybody remember in 1994 when the Discovery channel was going to air a program on a Pedophillia ring within the Reagen and Bush administrations?

Sadly the program never made it to air because several Republican Senators paid a large sum of money to have it taken off television.

The description of the show was listed in the TV guide but the pulling of the show happened at virtually the last minute.

Originally posted by Crazy_Mr_Crowley
Does anybody remember in 1994 when the Discovery channel was going to air a program on a Pedophillia ring within the Reagen and Bush administrations?

Sadly the program never made it to air because several Republican Senators paid a large sum of money to have it taken off television.

The description of the show was listed in the TV guide but the pulling of the show happened at virtually the last minute.

There is a thread in the Political Conspiracies forum at the moment with a link to the documentary in question:

Thread link