Kerry, In Speech, Accuses White House of Suppressing Dissent

See it or not see it..
Again..what does it have to do with the speach that Kerry made???
Thats what THIS thread is about

Before this completely degenerates, I've got a constructive question.

Assuming that Kerry was right, what's to be done?

I think Democratsand Republicans alike are in a feeding frenzy just now. Both sides can't wait for their chance to chip away at the Constitution just a little more. I thought about this for a long time, then I wrote a book and published. Sort my throwing my own own two cents in to the mix.

Now that I have published a book I'm a lot more sensitive to the question of what's to be done. both sides in this debate see themselves as ultimately "right."

It's not enough to be tolerant, although I do think we've lost a lot of our national tolerance. Are we just gonna have to wait for one side or ther other to totally wreck the government before stepping in to make repairs?

Mod Edit: Truncation Of Shameless Self Promotion


[edit on 8/5/2006 by Mirthful Me]

semperfortis:Yes, the main item in the article has to do with Mr. Kerry's speech. However, I think it is blind to simply assume that he's the only part of this story. He's mainly expressing his opinions about whether dissent is truly expressed in this country.

And judging by the response of some people who detract Mr. Kerry, that dissent is a sword that cuts both ways.


Justin Oldham: This thread can be saved. Dissent has to be discussed in this country. I think too much lip service has been paid to what the pundits on both sides think. With that being said, people have to tear themselves away from media influence and view the government objectively. They have study what's going on and make a decision about how they feel regarding these occurrences.

The problem is whether people are willing to commit themselves to the research in order to enlighten themselves regarding the problems in this country.

I think that people have to step away from the name-calling on both sides and talk about this while resisting the temptation to blame the public officials. We need to rediscover our right to have conversations in this country without the fear of being branded unpatriotic.

However, whether people can get past what their pundits say and think on their own is another matter.


[edit on 8-5-2006 by ceci2006]

How about this?

The maze of overhead netting, chain link fencing and razor wire couldn't be further in comfort from the high-tech confines of the arena stage where John Kerry is to accept the Democratic nomination for president during the four-day convention that kicks off Monday.

Protesters likened the site Saturday to a concentration camp as they complained it is too far from the FleetCenter to get their messages across

"We don't deserve to be put in a detention center, a concentration camp," said Medea Benjamin of San Francisco. "It's tragic that here in Boston, the birthplace of democracy, our First Amendment rights are being trampled on."

Oops..sorry that was the DEMOCRATIC national convention.. HMMMMM

Where are you getting this from, semperfortis? You didn't have a link to your quotes to reference your points.

Also, what do you think about dissent apart from it being a partisan matter? Do you think that anyone has the right to speak based on First Amendment rights?

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
I do know one thing though, this White House has been accused of just about every crime there is and can be imagined in this term of office. This is either the worst White House of all time or the Democrats are sinking lower and lower in desperation to win and cling to power that is continuing to elude them.

The thing is, it's not just the Democrats who are "sinking lower and lower" when we criticize Bush. The competence of this administration, as an issue, surpassed beyond petty partisan-politics LONG ago. Many people who think both parties are atrocious and corrupt. That's what frustrates me when I see news programs talking about the Democrats vs. the Republicans. It's way beyond that it.

Originally posted by ceci2006
Also, what do you think about dissent apart from it being a partisan matter? Do you think that anyone has the right to speak based on First Amendment rights?

Apart from being a partisan matter, you or Kerry or anyone else has the the right to dissent, period. The problem here is when it comes from a politician who has a nefarious background in dissent. The same rhetoric would be given if Jane Fonda spoke up about the suppression of dissent. Its not necessarily that there may or may not be a suppression of dissent issue--being clearly the press is not being suppressed in their dissent--but who is or are those making such claims.





seekerof

Yes, you are right it went on at the democrat convention as well as the republican convention and has been going on all the way back to the year 2000, maybe even before that. What we all must realize it is both parties are doing this, and calling those little wired in areas free speech areas. Is that acceptable to you or anyone here?

So apparently the government thinks it is perfectly acceptable to set aside areas that are free speech areas and other areas that are not. If you get outside the area you can be arrested simply for holding up a sign outside the designated area. Should that be happening here in the land of the free?

If you ask any veteran who has fought for this country they will tell you that every area here is supposed to be a free speech area. Hubby is an ex-marine, he was very concerned when he heard about this. Many veterans have expressed their concerns over this.

It does not matter which party or branch of the government is doing it, the fact that it is being done at all to anyone in the United States of America is what matters, and should be a matter of concern to us all.

The fact Kerry had the gall to speakup about this and point his finger toward the republicans and of course the republicans will point their fingers back at him, should tell you their playing politics and making that the issue. So we all fight about which party is the most guilty, which party is the most innocent and which one has the most hypocrites. In my book their equal, their all a bunch of liars. The interest of the American people were sold out to a bunch of lobbyists long ago.

And in the meantime while we fight about this, we are losing our freedoms by fighting over silly stuff like my guy is better than yours, we are forgetting to stand together on the important issues that affect us all.

I'll stand by my earlier remarks. You guys are doing a good job of pointing out what the problem is, but, what would you suggest that we do about it?

Give more support to Independent news Channels like Democracy Now. Stop supporting talk show pundits who appear to be in the pocketbooks of the politicians. E-mail or write the politicians and discuss the fact that they aren't doing enough to protect our right to dissent. And tell them, that by passing such un-American legislation like the Patriot Act, they are seriously jeopardizing our First Amendment Rights.

You have voted semperfortis for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Well spoken., especially this:

The very premise of this thread is ridiculous to the sublime and anyone that just watches the local, regional or national news can see all of this for themselves. If it is being repressed, who are they keeping it from? People with no TV's or radios?

You just can't win with some people. But, all I can say is, maintain.

Thank you jsobecky

ceci

Yes I believe in the 1st Amendment, I've been fighting for our rights for 26 years now.
My only point was trying to illustrate that it is never ONE side in the fight. That President Bush gets so much heat simply because he is the President. The Dems/ libs are as guilty as the Republicans/cons, it just seems to me that the Democrats spend a lot more time picking out what is wrong with the Republicans and little or no time putting out solutions.

If instead of calling names like War Criminal and Terrorist to the current administration, why not spend time coming up with options that will really work. Not just we need to get out.... That is just not feasible at this point.

I think it is the ultimate in hypocrisy that they libs cry repression when all we hear are the libs crying repression. What's being repressed? Why do they have the right to voice their opinions and when the opposition does it is repression?

I mean it is ridiculous that anytime a Conservative says anything about some one calling the president names, the Liberals call it repression.

Originally posted by ceci2006
Give more support to Independent news Channels like Democracy Now. Stop supporting talk show pundits who appear to be in the pocketbooks of the politicians. E-mail or write the politicians and discuss the fact that they aren't doing enough to protect our right to dissent. And tell them, that by passing such un-American legislation like the Patriot Act, they are seriously jeopardizing our First Amendment Rights.

ITA and love the free speech tv and link tv. Free speech tv gets no support except for viewer support, they get no money from the government or even the satellite companies that carry their channel. No corporate sponsors. Not only is the news given in unbiased full detail, there are no commercials. Many news items are reported there weeks before the networks show it.

And yes we all need to definitely write or congressman or senators and let them know when we don't or do support legislation.

I don't think you realize how bad it is, the people who are voicing dissent are being repressed by being sprayed with pepper spray, shot with rubber bullets, and arrested and detained in jail for days, for being at peaceful demonstrations. It's much worse than simply having someone answer back with a challenging word.

You complain about the democrats putting people in free speech zones but seem not to recognize when the republicans do it. Free speech zones has been used by Bush all the way back to his governor days. This is not about conservative vs. liberal, it's not about you or I disagreeing over the war or whatever, it is about our rights being taken away, our freedom of speech rights, our right of dissent.

www.billingsgazette.com.../2003/11/29/build/opinion/guest1.inc

By CHARLES LEVENDOSKY
Casper Star-Tribune

President Bush has never been an advocate of the First Amendment. Even when he was governor of Texas, he prohibited demonstrations on the walkways in front of the governor's mansion, an area that had traditionally been used for peaceful protests.


As president, Bush has widened his restrictions on demonstrations against his policies. Anti-Bush protesters are now relegated to what are euphemistically called Free Speech Zones. These areas are cordoned off as far as a mile away from the president and the main thoroughfares, so that Bush cannot see the demonstrators, or their signs of protest, nor hear their chants.


The free speech enclosures are only for those who disagree with the administration's current policies. Those citizens who carry pro-Bush signs are allowed to line the street where the president's motorcade passes.


Free speech zone
Members of the Secret Service or local law enforcement officers under orders of the Secret Service demand protesters move into a free speech area.

GOOSE!!!
No one here that I know of... Is saying the Republicans do not do it..

WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS THEY ALL DO IT...and to say only the republicans do it is living with your head in the sand.

To say only the republicans use repressing techniques, is denying the truth

Originally posted by semperfortis

WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS THEY ALL DO IT...and to say only the republicans do it is living with your head in the sand.

Movie line: "What we have here is a failure to communicate. "

When it comes to politics, many people take a side and and assume the other team is doing all the worst.

I ran in to 6-8 people like the goose at my last book event. they hadn't even read my book, but they just had to prove me wrong.

We face a grim and terrible trend in government. It seems that the Democrats and the Republicans now think so little of us that they BOTH go out of theri way to re-press, su-ppress, and de-press the people who put them in to office.

I've seen a few good suggestions in the last page. We've got options. We can do someting about this. I Know people want to hear discussions like this. It's what sells so many books for me.

What else would YOU do?

Well first try and educate everyone to the fact that they are all, first and foremost ... POLITICIANS... That is what they have chosen as a profession and they will always play to their party base to stay in power.

Some are better than others yes, but that qualifier DEFINITELY crosses party lines and is strictly an individual trait.

I am a Republican.. The fact is I make too much money to support the Democrats, but I really really like Lieberman and would vote him as president in a minute.

I really really don't trust McCain, though I am sure that is who the Reps will run in 2008.

So it seems to me that people, especially on here, should be able to cross the party boundaries and realize we need BETTER PEOPLE in there. Not better politics.

Perhaps most of you missed this earlier post where I clearly said Kerry was nothing but a hypocrite for calling the republicans on this, since he has also been guilty of this. I also said they all do it and are all a bunch of liars.

I don't think that you Semperforis are aware of how badly people who voice their dissent are treated by the gov. and the police in some of these cities based on this statement you made.

When I talk about repression I am talking about the free speech zone and also people who are peacefully protesting are being beaten, having pepper spray shot into their eyes and mouth, having tear gas thrown into the crowd. People have been injured and also detained for days. Its much worse than you suggest.

Semperfortis you wrote

I think it is the ultimate in hypocrisy that they libs cry repression when all we hear are the libs crying repression. What's being repressed? Why do they have the right to voice their opinions and when the opposition does it is repression?

I mean it is ridiculous that anytime a Conservative says anything about some one calling the president names, the Liberals call it repression.

Personally I would like to see both democrats and republicans senators and congressman voted out and completely replaced with new people.

Goose wrote earlier in this thread
Yes, you are right it went on at the democrat convention as well as the republican convention and has been going on all the way back to the year 2000, maybe even before that. What we all must realize it is both parties are doing this, and calling those little wired in areas free speech areas. Is that acceptable to you or anyone here?

So apparently the government thinks it is perfectly acceptable to set aside areas that are free speech areas and other areas that are not. If you get outside the area you can be arrested simply for holding up a sign outside the designated area.

The fact Kerry had the gall to speakup about this and point his finger toward the republicans and of course the republicans will point their fingers back at him, should tell you their playing politics and making that the issue. So we all fight about which party is the most guilty, which party is the most innocent and which one has the most hypocrites. In my book their equal, their all a bunch of liars. The interest of the American people were sold out to a bunch of lobbyists long ago.

Goose
we are not saying your wrong...
We are agreeing with you!!!

It is the staunch Kerry Bash Bush people we are having difficulty with seeing both sides.

Personally I would like to see both democrats and republicans senators and congressman voted out and completely replaced with new people.

I totally agree and in this upcoming election in November, I intend to vote against every incumbent. I hope the local press is there also to record my feelings so I can make it known in some small way.

The only current pol that I admire is Lieberman. Unfortunately he's not my Senator so I can't vote for him.