Enough With The Proof!!

I also believe that there is tons of "evidence" but NONE whatsoever that make UFOs from outer space ... we don't know what they are and what they are doing here ...

As for abductees and the experiences people say they've had ... heck, they could have been lied to since day 1.

I don't find the vast majority of abductees stories to be credible at all. In almost every single case, only one person is abducted, there is no physical evidence of abduction, and nobody saw them get abducted. In the rare cases where more than one was taken, most of those stories have been shown to follow along the lines of a science fiction program (or novel) that was contemporary with the "abduction." Other abductions are not so easy to explain away, but still, with no evidence left behind, there's no choice but to listen to these folk's stories earnestly, then dismiss them when they are done. No choice.

Harte

mod edit: removed quote of above post

[edit on 9-5-2006 by sanctum]

Originally posted by Harte
I don't find the vast majority of abductees stories to be credible at all. In almost every single case, only one person is abducted, there is no physical evidence of abduction, and nobody saw them get abducted.

though you might say that the source is not credible, but here's some physical evidence:
video.google.com...

Harte, you are just not able to accept the facts. No matter what I present to you, you will deny the proof. A UFO could land in front of you, an alien could walk out and slap your face and you still wouldn't believe that it just happened.

So don't tell me that you need more "proof". Of all the 100's of 1000's of pictures, documents, witnesses, videos, crop circles, Physical "PROOF" at landing sites, dirt samples dehydrated to the point of NEVER being able to absorb water. Radiation readings inside crop circles and at landing sites. The list goes on and on.....No matter what is presented to you, you just will not accept the facts.

Damn, the Government has created SEVERAL groups to STUDY the EXISTANCE of UFO's. The Military has done the same. You're saying it's ALL a hoax? That these people were all just dumb enough to spend the MILLIONS of dollars on classified programs so we could have something to sit around and speculate whether it's real or not?

Please.....you're embarassing yourself.

Originally posted by masterp
I did not say that there is evidence. But the existence of 200,000,000,000 galaxies each galaxy containing 200,000,000,000 star systems, in a universe that is 51,000,000,000,000,000 km wide, can not result in only 1 star system with life. There has got to be plenty of life out there.

These numbers don't mean anything, because we don't know what the odds are that life will arise, given a specific set of circumstances. Imagine a room full of superballs, all bouncing around pretty much at random. What are the odds, and how long do you think it would take, for those superballs to spell out your name and stick that way? Now imagine that your name is as long as the most primitive DNA. What are the odds then? It might happen once. It might never happen again, even given another 13 billion years of bouncing. Those are the kinds of odds we're talking about. We could very well be the only game in town.

Enkidu, man I'm not even gonna touch that last statement you made about us being the only game in town. I'd probably be banned from here.

MrChipps I think You misunderstood hartes point about proof and evidence.
When a detective goes to a crime scene and collects a fingerprint it's evidence. It only becomes proof when the perp is safely ensconced in our luxurious prison system. And even then it can be challenged at length.
Yeah there's evidence out there but it ain't proof yet. The UFO jail is empty.
And I say that with all sincerety. I have been investigating/researching for some 30 years now. It's the most disappointing thing you'll ever do but...........
Geez I was gonna stay outta this one.

watch this documentary-

hard to deny something otherwordly not happening on our planet

video.google.com...

Excellent video Bruise!! Thank you

Nice video. I enjoyed it. Thanks.

I hate to say it Harte and Enkidu, but I really think the only way we could resolve this is if we quit our jobs and go look for evidence. We could end up finding nothing and dying as lonely miserable fools, or we might find something.

Anyways, I liked the statistical argument about balls bouncing around and the probability of forming a DNA strand. I think that it is an interesting argument, but flawed by its own simplicity. After all, certain chemical bonds are common occurances, and so on. BUt I know you realize that and were just trying to point out the incredible induced complexity required for a self replicating, self-preserving, stable information storage mechanism. Yet the idea that a complex DNA is required for life can also be questioned. Some other less organized molecule might be a sufficient information carrier, and simply require a whole lot more error checking action.

There are just so many possibilities, I wouldn't want to speculate for or against the possibility of life elsewhere. I think we just don't understand this area well enough to speculate effectively.

Likewise, I tend to cringe when people mention Drake's equation, because they tend to assert it like some kind of law. Its just a back of the envelope equation. It has little if any model behind it, etc. Its just a thought experiment. A good one, I think, but nothing more.

Just a few years ago, people were discussing how rare planets would be. Now we are finding them in binary star systems. We still have so much to learn.

I was even struck by how many respondants to the British MOD report on the BBC would stoically state that "we cannot travel faster than the speed of light so no aliens would come here." This statement assumes
a) capability of others based on ourselves
b) motivational weighting of others based on ourselves
c) information about the contents of a universe we have yet to explore
I just can't get my head around how people can make such a thoroughly anthropomorphic statement and see themselves and clear-thinking, healthy minded skeptics.



But I don't feel we can analyze first hand accounts without direct interviews with the individuals involved. I've met psychotics, and I just don't feel that the experiences of Jimmy Carter, a night-time police crew in Illinois, and Astronaut Cooper are psychotic. Nor do I think they are dillusional. Nor do I think they saw plasma, meteorites, or venus, and got confused.

I don't think we are going to see what we need to see in front of a computer, and yet we are not willing to go find it because of the potential of being a fool.

Long haired cowboy, you've been at this for a long time. How would you describe it?

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

Hey ecto, I just noticed that we registered to ATS on the same day, We're both on ATS right now, responding to the SAME thread, about the SAME video.

How's that for coinsidence?

Originally posted by MrChipps
You ask too many "What ifs". WHAT IF everything stays the same and we all die as cowards who were affraid to try and make a change for a better future? Thats what you sound like you're saying. You're affraid. That's just part of being human though I guess.

Yeah, "what ifs" have many meanings. They can prepare you, as well as slow you down. What I was stating exactly was by reading *your* post, I got the feeling you were the one trying to just leave it all alone, and wait for the old generation to die. I'd call that being afraid.

I am not afraid of dying, or challenging the world. Fear and ignorance is the only thing that really hold us back. Just a word of advice though; Attacking your fellow people on this board won't help... None the less, i'm in, as i've said before.

I certainly haven't "attacked" anyone. If I did, I'd be banned from here. I'm just a blunt person. I say what I believe. I don't beat around the bush and I don't sugar coat things. Sorry. I know I come off as pretty offensive sometimes. Blame that on my upbringing. I haven't led the most comforting life.

Originally posted by MrChipps
Harte, you are just not able to accept the facts. No matter what I present to you, you will deny the proof. A UFO could land in front of you, an alien could walk out and slap your face and you still wouldn't believe that it just happened.

Chipps,
You, apparently, are unable to even recognize a fact. I deduce this from your continuing to misuse the word "proof" after two corrections.

Originally posted by MrChippsSo don't tell me that you need more "proof". Of all the 100's of 1000's of pictures, documents, witnesses, videos, crop circles, Physical "PROOF" at landing sites, dirt samples dehydrated to the point of NEVER being able to absorb water. Radiation readings inside crop circles and at landing sites. The list goes on and on.....No matter what is presented to you, you just will not accept the facts.

Again, you confuse proof with evidence. Please, if proof existed, there would be no argument, it would have been proven. That's what "proof" means.

Originally posted by MrChippsDamn, the Government has created SEVERAL groups to STUDY the EXISTANCE of UFO's. The Military has done the same. You're saying it's ALL a hoax? That these people were all just dumb enough to spend the MILLIONS of dollars on classified programs so we could have something to sit around and speculate whether it's real or not?

Please.....you're embarassing yourself.

No, but I am embarassed for you. (Crop Circles? Really!!! There's no evidence connecting them to UFO's in the least.)

I haven't said it was "ALL a hoax...," quite the contrary. But, it's not uncommon for shallow thinkers to adopt this stance when confronted with logic - IOW, to misquote or misrepresent what the other has said in order to make it easier to argue against.

One more time - among all of this "proof" you claim exists (I guess we'll just have to take your word for it, eh?), where, exactly is the "proof," no, where is even the tiniest piece of evidence that these phenomena are extraterrestrial in origin?

There is none. If there's no evidence, there's no reason to believe it. If there is no reason to believe it, why do you believe it? The answer? Because you WANT to believe it.

Harte

Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial I don't think we are going to see what we need to see in front of a computer, and yet we are not willing to go find it because of the potential of being a fool.

Long haired cowboy, you've been at this for a long time. How would you describe it?

Your 100% correct. Any 'proof' is not found on the net. I investigate sightings in my spare time and it involves alot of thankless work. I spend hours on the phone conducting interviews and if at all possible I interview witness' in person. I do this on my own. I once belonged to several of the prominent UFO groups but left them when their tactics and agendas were questioned.
It's frustrating work and not for those who have no patience.
My most recent case involved a sighting on a local military installation last year. It was only my desire to get off my arse and go have a look that kept an article from being printed in the local paper. It was a hoax
I've seen landing marks and photographed them and measured them. It's evidence not 'proof'(I can't prove they're UFO landing marks because I don't have a UFO to compare them to).
If it's out there I'll find it not some middle schooler sitting at a computer looking up UFO photos on the net.

Harte, if you refer to video and photographic "Proof" as only evidence, then there's something wrong with your way of thinking.

Judge: Mr Harte, do you have any PROOF that Mr. X broke into your store and stole said diamond rings?

Mr. Harte: Yes your honor. My video security system clearly shows his face as he's smashing open the display case and grabbing the diamond rings.

Judge: I'm sorry Mr. Harte. That video prooves nothing to me.

Mr. Harte: WHAT!?! It's him! Look at his face and look at the video! It's him caught on tape!

Judge: I'm sorry. I wouldn't consider a video showing Mr. X smashing open your display case and stealing your diamonds PROOF.


Where's your logic in all this Harte?! If the above scenario were true, I'd bet you'd consider your video as PROOF and not evidence.

Indeed it is only evidence. In a criminal case the prosecutor is tasked to provide a preponderance of 'evidence' against the defendent to 'prove' his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to either a jury or a judge. They would not rely solely on a security camera video to convict. Other factors are involved. Witness testimony, fingerprints, etc. if said bandit were wearing a ski mask then how would the video be proof let alone evidence?
Sorry chipps yer gettin the terms mixed.
Those pics of UFOs? that's what they are, Unidentified Flying Objects. Since we don't have an actual ET vehicle to compare they're just UFOs.
BTW the McMinnville photos are probably the best evidence.

Well obviously IF he had a ski mask on it would only be evidence. If his FACE is shown (like i had written above, *snip*) then it would be PROOF. Stop this childish rant.

Besides, I haven't seen ANY UFO's wearking ski masks. If I catch one of them on video....I promise I'll only consider it evidence.





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[edit on 5/10/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

You do realize you have violated the T&C by using insulting name calling, no?
But anyhow the video is still only evidence. It becomes proof when it is tied in with other evidence to convict. Or do you just not comprehend what you read?

Btw you're the childish one and you've just shown it.