for those of you out there who may think that the Bible is just a bunch of hoooowee

For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins" (On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373).


The quotation Jeffrey referred to is from a document called "Pseudo-Ephraem." The prefix "pseudo—" means "false" or "falsely ascribed to—." Scholars doubt this document is genuinely from the hand of Ephraem of Syria, or that it was written in the fourth century. It was most likely written much later by an anonymous author, who falsely ascribed it to Ephraem the Syrian. So, when Jeffrey wrote "I believe Ephraem the Syrian's A.D. 373 manuscript, On the Last Times, the Antichrist and the End of the World...", he has already mis-represented his evidence, and demonstrated the same kind of "spin" that is evident in his other claims. This sermon was neither written by Ephraem the Syrian nor was it written in A.D. 373! And Jeffrey knows this! Ephraem's genuine writings, contained in the Post-Nicene Fathers collection, display no hint of pre-tribulationism. Here is the allegedly pre-trib statement that Jeffrey provides from Pseudo-Ephraem (see above quote)."

Originally posted by toolman
For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins" (On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373).


." Scholars doubt this document is genuinely from the hand of Ephraem of Syria, or that it was written in the fourth century. It was most likely written much later by an anonymous author, who falsely ascribed it to Ephraem the Syrian.

Yah and lets see, why would they doubt........Lets see hmmm, Oh yah because they have another agenda.

I have still given plenty of verses from the Bible to back up the rapture before the trib period. Your answer is the following:

Originally posted by toolman

No, what you have done is remove verses from text and twist them to fit a preconcieved ideal created in 1880.

So tell me specifically how in the verses what I have put a false "spin" on them and interpreted them wrong?

This verse explains it for me accurately enough.



Come, trample the grapes,
for the winepress is full
and the vats overflow—
so great is their wickedness

Originally posted by TgSoe
This verse explains it for me accurately enough.



Come, trample the grapes,
for the winepress is full
and the vats overflow—
so great is their wickedness

Reference please?

But I will already counter with this:
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
[5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
[6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
[7] For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
[8] But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

He's talking to christains here
1 Thessalonians 1:1..............unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ:

You can show me other verses but I want verses I have used for the rapture to be shown my"spin".

[edit on 9-7-2006 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by dbrandt
Reference please?

He's refering to the NIV Translation of Joel 3:13 (The Harvest of the Earth).

Joel 3:13 NIV
Swing the sickle,
for the harvest is ripe.
Come, trample the grapes,
for the winepress is full
and the vats overflow—
so great is their wickedness!"

Originally posted by TgSoe


Come, trample the grapes,
for the winepress is full
and the vats overflow—
so great is their wickedness

He's refering to the NIV Translation of Joel 3:13 (The Harvest of the Earth).


OK so what about it?



[edit on 10-7-2006 by dbrandt]

I have studied the prophecies in the Bible for many years and found all of them to be accurate. Why? Because they were given by God to the prophets. The most provable one is in chapter 2 of the book of Daniel. And is the end near? Absolutely! Just look at what Jesus had to say about the world conditions just before His coming, in the book of Matthew, chapter 24.