LSD in Nam

Ok so I’ve heard this several times before and I’d like to see if it was true or not. Were U.S Viet Nam soldiers the victim of experimentation with the drug '___'? I'm doing a report on it this weekend so any information true or other wise would be appreciated thanks.

Perhaps "self experimentation" might be a better call back then.

You might be reffering to the fact that the CIA and other Alphabet groups were testing '___' as early as the early 60's. So strong was the drive for them to acheive a 'Super Mind', The alphabet people regularly recruited Honor students from some of the best colleges in the US for testing and study. Of course, with *cough*cough* 'studies' like these who knew how much was to much when it came to that particular drug. The idea being "More May Be Better".

I have a cousin who was a top student in Berkeley that was snagged for these studies and tests. Unfortunately, he's no longer all there if you catch my meaning.

Wheather they were testing '___' out in the bush or not is a moot point. However, one needs to use their common sense in this and ask them self an important question.

How much control do you have over a soldier that is both heavily armed and tripping?? How long would it take for you as a junior LT to realize that you no longer have control over that solider that has lost his grip on reality? They were getting fragged enough as it was.

With the presence of very cheap Heroin, ready made, packaged cigarets that were dipped in opium, opiated herb called Buddah, and plenty of '___', micro dot, orange sunshine circulating there already, it was scary enough for the junior officers I'd imagine.

Originally posted by StarLord
You might be reffering to the fact that the CIA and other Alphabet groups were testing '___' as early as the early 60's.

Actually, the CIA's MKULTRA program started in the *50s*. '___' was first created in a lab in 1938 (i think...)

Check this out:

en.wikipedia.org...

In any case, i think that by the time Vietnam rolled around, the various government agencies had already finished it's testing of this substance.

[edit on 28-4-2006 by negativenihil]

The Swiss company Sandoz invented '___' from bread mold. John Foster Dulles, along with Aldous Huxley and Timothy Leary were instrumental in bringing '___' to the U.S.. I have no doubt that our soldiers in Nam would have been targets for this drug as well. Read Huxleys "Doors of Perception". It is an account of his useage and the implementaion into society for mind control.

Here is a video of it being tested on the British army. Some of it is pretty funny actually.



'___' Testing on British Military

Although the US continued to experiment on its soldiers with '___' 1967, the main CW psycho-chemical agent of choice for the US military, was BZ (quinuclidinyl benzilate).

The US were attracted to BZ because it could induce a complex of incapacitating mental and physical effects. It was a much more powerful hallucinogen than '___', the effects lasting at least 2 -3 days, sometimes longer.

The British military believed that BZ was unsafe and that, instead of causing incapcitation, BZ could kill. This was confirmed by Porton scientists in 1965 and two years later they noted that some US scientists were also inclined to believe that BZ was too dangerous to be used as an incapacitant.

It is alleged, but not proved, that the US used BZ in Vietnam.




zero lift

Originally posted by YIAWETA
The Swiss company Sandoz invented '___' from bread mold. John Foster Dulles, along with Aldous Huxley and Timothy Leary were instrumental in bringing '___' to the U.S.. I have no doubt that our soldiers in Nam would have been targets for this drug as well. Read Huxleys "Doors of Perception". It is an account of his useage and the implementaion into society for mind control.

Well that's possible, ERGOT from Rye grain may have been the preliminary source. ERGOTISM has been long documented from eating infected Rye grain.

Sandoz may have been one of the largest pharm. company to synthisize what may be known as pure '___'-25.

www.botany.hawaii.edu...

Anyone remember OSLEY? Hws supposed to have been working for Sandoz and was one of the largest sources for '___'-25. He also was supposedly to have purchased that "Wall Of Sound" some 99,000 speakers for the Greatful Dead.

Of course with that group and it's 'followers' it's hard to keep up with heresay and fact. Any one who attended one of their concerts would realize that in a New York Second by walking around and watching the croud and those that couldn't stap put for some strange reason.

Regarding BZ:

First, BZ is a derivative of '___', optimized for weaponization. So it is helpful to look into use of BZ when researching use of '___' by the military. Studies of BZ were extensively carried out during the 1960's, including human trials on soldiers, and allegations of its use during Vietnam as a weapon were reported, however- if you are looking for a combination of the first two, trials on soldiers actually in Vietnam, I am not certain if there is any evidence of such to date (although given the amount of research done in general that is known about, there's no real reason why they couldn't have tested it over there).

Some links:

Documents on BZ: A Partial List (at The Memory Hole)

Reports on BZ (at The Memory Hole)

According to the book Acid Dreams by Martin Lee,

According to Dr. Solomon Snyder, a leading psychopharmacologist at Johns Hopkins University, which conducted drug research for the Chemical Corps, "The army's testing of '___' was just a sideshow compared to its use of BZ." Clinical studies with EA-2277 (the code number for BZ) were initiated at Edgewood Arsenal in 1959 and continued until 1975. During this period an estimated twenty-eight hundred soldiers were exposed to the superhallucinogen. A number of military personnel have since come forward claiming that they were never the same after their encounter with BZ. Robert Bowen, a former air force enlisted man, felt disoriented for several weeks after his exposure. Bowen said the drug produced a temporary feeling of insanity but that he reacted less severely than other test subjects. One paratrooper lost all muscle control for a time and later seemed totally divorced from reality "The last time I saw him," said Bowen, "he was taking a shower in his uniform and smoking a cigar." During the early 1960s the CIA and the military began to phase out their in-house acid tests in favor of more powerful chemicals such as BZ, which became the army's standard incapacitating agent. By this time the superhallucinogen was ready for deployment in a grenade, a 750-pound cluster bomb, and at least one other large-scale bomb. In addition the army tested a number of other advanced BZ munitions, including mortar, artillery, and missile warheads. The superhallucinogen was later employed by American troops as a counterinsurgency weapon in Vietnam, and according to CIA documents there may be contingency plans to use the drug in the event of a major civilian insurrection. As Major General William Creasy warned shortly after he retired from the Army Chemical Corps, "We will use these things as we very well see fit, when we think it is in the best interest of the US and their allies."

Some information on naval testing of BZ, with links to official DoD test report fact sheets, can be found here.

As an aside, defenselink reports that some Iraqi insurgents are using Iraqi BZ stockpiles on themselves.

[edit on 28-4-2006 by koji_K]

Here is a video of it being tested on the British army. Some of it is pretty funny actually.

Yeah, I know..some of it does look funny; but the reality is that these troops were spiked with acid without giving their consent!

The troops involved thought that they were just drinking water prior to an exercise.

And this was in the days before most people had even heard of '___', let alone it's effects.

Many of these 'volunteers' are still traumatised because of their treatment during CDEE Porton Down's human experimentation trials, which is worth bearing in mind the next time you watch this clip.



zero lift

Good thread
I was a teenager during the Vietnam War and when the soldiers came back, I was in college and then later on a therapist who worked with Vietnam vets. I have had many vets tell me that the CIA was providing opium and heroin, also Thai stick, to the soldiers. They were running the Golden Triangle, the heart of the opium/heroin trade, I believe.
I had not heard of any '___' experimentation, though, thanks for the link/information!

I have known so many Vietnam vets in different capacities. I've dated them, had them as friends, and always it is the same story. The CIA provided opium and heroin to the troops, alot came back addicted. I don't know if the CIA was experimenting or just saw a way to make alot of money and cashed in on it. Anyone else know what their motive was?

Forestlady, Be sure to ask them what they know about "Air America" It was a airlines owned and operated by the CIA if I am not mistaken.

They told me about Air America, I think that's where I heard it from first.
The CIA sells drugs to fund their operations. Why can't they just have a
simple bake sale, like everyone else?

'___' and BZ might not have been the only CBW agents that were possibly deployed by the US in Viet Nam in the mid-sixties.

I've recently managed to get my mitts on the minutes of the 58th meeting of the UK Biological Research Advisory Board (BRAB). This board was an oversight committee for the UK's Biological Warfare research facility - Porton Down.

Following a visit to the US BW facilities, a Porton military scientist noted that, the US had recently (1965) issued a directive which changed its CBW policy from the operational use of lethal CBW agents to incapacitating agents.

This was demonstrated by the fact that although the US CBW agent production plant at Pine Bluff had produced large quantities of Botulinum toxin, the Quadripartite countries (US/UK/CAN/AUS) no longer considered it a candidate agent.

Instead, Pine Bluff turned to the large-scale production of Staphylococcal enterotoxin (SEB), an incapacitating agent.

A senior Ministry of Defence official informed the BRAB that "the directives which were issued periodically arose from changes in the emphasis according to operations. At the present time the emphasis was on the type of operation being undertaken in Viet Nam".

According to the Director of Porton Down, a US Major-General had informed him that the US definition of an incapacitating agent was "that it was one causing not more than a 1 per cent kill".




If SEB was used in a clandestine manner by the US in Viet Nam, it would have been very hard to prove.

After all, any illness caused by such a BW attack would have, quite likely, been put down to yet another outbreak of severe food poisoning in the battlefield.


zero lift

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the official word is that the British MI6 used '___' experiments in 1953-54
but discontinued doing experiments (with that exact type of '___' i would suggest)

the very brief article linked below, says the US CIA also did their own research with '___',
my guess is they too dropped that test but probably moved to other products like Angel Dust and exotics like Ecstacy....

here's the link: www.guardian.co.uk...

i think its all about neuro-receptors
cheers