UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology

Egyptologists launching online encyclopedia

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Frustrated with the poor quality of many Web sites dealing with ancient Egypt, a professor at the University of California has decided to create an online encyclopedia devoted to Egyptology.

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I am disappointed that we Egyptophiles will have to wait until 2008 for this web site to come online, but since the intent behind it is to disseminate accurate information, the wait is worth it.

hieThere's several good sites on Egypt, including Touregypt.com -- not in depth, but definately an excellent site. There is also Hall of Ma'at and Catchpenny's Egyptian mysteries. I need to put together a list of good resources, including hieroglyphic alphabet.

Originally posted by Bibliophile

I am disappointed that we Egyptophiles.............

I would like to ask a couple of question of an Egyptophile.

I've been playing in the Sacred Text Website lately, and was starting to review Egyptian Works.

I am having difficulties with the following text.

The Hymms to the Elemental Divinities

To Hephaistos

It can be viewed at www.sacred-texts.com...
for those who would wish to review it. Scroll down about 2/3'ds of the way.

Hephaistos is who exactly????? Egypts First Ruler/Almightly God sort of Figure?

I read through this, and I am startled at the similiarites between the Bible, and this text I was reviewing.

No. XIII ETA, OR THE THIRD OF THE GODS PART I has all those Lord of Hosts, Lord God, Man shall live by the Word of God, The Lord maketh all things new and such.

I was floored with the, Let thy Master be the Christ of God... and the And Christ shall be thy lover and savior of thy Body, O yea, he shall be thy lord God and thou shalt adore Him.

But I was able to pick myself up from the floor, and have presumed this is some confused or miss interpeted recollection.

But as noted above, this Hephaistos reminds me of someone else and I would not wish to jump into an all consuming fire conclusion.

Is it accurate Hephaitstos presumably ruled for some 9000 Years, and Ra followed some 922 Years and some one else rule for 100 Years after this?

Byrd, who is a very insightful and studied individual, and myself have had several discussions on a great many topics over the brief time I have been "IN" here. It's sort of like he is tracking me down. We have had some good Great Pyramid back and forths and we both have our opinions on this. Of course, Byrd seems to have the upperhand, since he has shown he has great knowledge in Egyptian matters

I have never delved into any of the Egyptian Fables and Lore previously, and within the last few days of studying some of these Texts, I am confused by this perticular reading.

I would hope you could shed some light on this personage and clarify if I am reading something that is actually a factual representation of the Lore and Fables of Egypt.

Many thanks for your assistance in advance

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Shane
I would like to ask a couple of question of an Egyptophile.

I've been playing in the Sacred Text Website lately, and was starting to review Egyptian Works.

I am having difficulties with the following text.

The Hymms to the Elemental Divinities

To Hephaistos

It can be viewed at www.sacred-texts.com...
for those who would wish to review it. Scroll down about 2/3'ds of the way.

Hephaistos is who exactly????? Fist Ruler/Almightly God sort of Figure?

A Greek god.

These aren't ancient Egyptian texts. They're "channeled" texts, in the 1800's, which explains the names of various things that were common in mysitc circles of THAT time but did not appear elsewhen:
www.sacred-texts.com...

Hephaistos is the Greek name for Vulcan, the god of the forge:
www.theoi.com...

I read through this, and I am startled at the similiarites between the Bible, and this text I was reviewing.

Because Kingsford was strongly religious and was brought up to be a strong Christian. These channeled texts never vary from the "channeler"'s core beliefs.

But I was able to pick myself up from the floor, and have presumed this is some confused or miss interpeted recollection.

Nope. She wrote in English. That's what she wrote -- channeled inspirational drivel. It's on par with a lot of the other writings of the time.

Now -- let's qualify this: she was extremely well educated, compared to most people of today. She was familiar wth the old Greek and Roman mythology, and it shows (and could probably read Greek and Latin.) In her "channeled" hymn to the "Planet-god" she makes reference to "Iacchos, Lord of initiation".

This is a reference to Bacchus. His followers practiced the Bacchanalia as part of their mysteries, and they had a complex initiation rite. The rites were open to women only.
en.wikipedia.org...

Although she wouldn't have had the newer information listed there in Wikipedia, she certainly knew the basics.

By the time she was born, Champoleon had translated the Rosetta stone, but not a lot of other translations had been done and not a lot of Egyptian material existed. Archaeology in Egypt was still more a form of looting than a science, so there wasn't as much for scholars to go on.

[edit on 30-4-2006 by Byrd]

For a good collection of authentic ancient Egyptian texts, try this site:
nefertiti.iwebland.com...

Hello all,

According to the posted article, The UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology will go online in 2008, and will be peer-reviewed

Wonderful .. nothing like peer-review to be sure that nothing of value comes of it .. like what is the djed pillar?

Is it ... The resurrected god - or Osiris backbone? Neither one, it's the neck bones!

Says so in the Pyramid Texts.

bc
.\

Originally posted by beforebc

...Wonderful .. nothing like peer-review to be sure that nothing of value comes of it...

This kind of negativity is counterproductive. Peer-review assures scientific accuracy, which is the goal of this project.

If you are a disgruntled scientist, or something akin to it, perhaps the Rant forum at BTS is more your speed. It is the perfect place to air that which ails you.

Originally posted by Byrd
For a good collection of authentic ancient Egyptian texts, try this site:
nefertiti.iwebland.com...

Thanks for the 'Direction' Byrd.

About Hephaistos, I was meaning a little more that just the Lore. Hephaistos must mean something. It does not mean, God of fire, does it? I thought that was who he was. (And I am certain you know how I mean this Byrd. Much like what a pillar implied in one of our first chats.)

And yes, the Flakey Lady was a Nutter. That was apparent.

And for your Both, have you seen the Satellite Images of un-covered finds?

www.satellitediscoveries.com...
This is a Structure in the Giza Site Area. (persumably)

www.satellitediscoveries.com...
This is many objects still under the sand.

Ciao

Shane



[edit on 5-5-2006 by Shane]

Originally posted by Shane

Originally posted by Byrd
For a good collection of authentic ancient Egyptian texts, try this site:
nefertiti.iwebland.com...

Thanks for the 'Direction' Byrd.

About Hephaistos, I was meaning a little more that just the Lore. Hephaistos must mean something. It does not mean, God of fire, does it? I thought that was who he was. (And I am certain you know how I mean this Byrd. Much like what a pillar implied in one of our first chats.)

Well, actually, he's the god of the forge. Prometheus is really considered the god of the fire, since he was the fire-bringer. Hephastos forged Zeus's thunderbolts, and was treated as a bit of a joke (because of his lameness) by the Greek gods.

Who knows what Hephaistos meant to the writer? This is channeled writings, so the connection comes from within the spirit and the psyche of the writer and has no relation to whatever may be known on the outside world.

And for your Both, have you seen the Satellite Images of un-covered finds?

www.satellitediscoveries.com...
This is a Structure in the Giza Site Area. (persumably)

www.satellitediscoveries.com...
This is many objects still under the sand.

Mmmmmf. I'm not terribly convinced by the site (though yes, we all know there's a LOT of material buried under the sands!) The "face" structure in particular isn't terribly convincing (and you'll notice that the digs get quite close to the structure.) My first thought was maybe 'crumbled pyramid' but I don't have time to look it up right now. And the circles in the desert are new; within the past 100 years or so. Old structures would have been buried by sand and not preserved like that.

A closer look would be needed at the "pitted area" -- are we seeing hoodoos and erosional effects or what? I'm reluctant to make diagnoses of things seen from outer space, particularly with plain light photos and not using other types of light to confirm what's there. And I sure am hesitant to proclaim a structure until I see the thing in person or have a report from someone (who knows geology) who's wandered up to it and seen what the thing is.

But... later, when I have a bit of time, I'll poke around and see what's known about those things. People have been up there in droves for the past 200 years and there's sure to be some records or photos somewhere.

Originally posted by beforebc
Wonderful .. nothing like peer-review to be sure that nothing of value comes of it .. like what is the djed pillar?

Is it ... The resurrected god - or Osiris backbone? Neither one, it's the neck bones!

Says so in the Pyramid Texts.

Might I point out that the neckbones are part of the backbone? Go with the more recent translation if you're confused about something. That will generally be more precise.

Hello all,

bc wrote, re., peer-review ] "Wonderful .. nothing like peer-review to be sure that nothing of value comes of it .."

In response, Bibliophile wrote] This kind of negativity is counterproductive. Peer-review assures scientific accuracy, which is the goal of this project.

bc] It isn't negativity when for 2000 years (actually more] the public has been hosted to a line of nonsense. Here are a few examples:

1.] Was Isis the mother of Horus?

NO! .. Hathor was: [Utterance 303, § 466] "Are you Horus, son of Osiris? Are you the god, the eldest one, the son of Hathor?"

2.] Was the djed pillar "the resurrected god - or Osiris backbone?"

NO! .. The djed pillar represents the neck bones: [Utterance 318 § 512] The King is a serpent ... who swallowed his seven uraei and his seven neck-vertebrae came into being

3.] Did the ancient Egyptians have an advanced celestial science? And why did they honor Jupiter? And where did the Eye of Horus motif come from? And where did the serpent come from?

The ancient Egyptians surely had a celestial science: [Utterance 638 § 1805] "O Osiris the King, the gods have knit together your face for you and Horus has given you his Eye"

of Jupiter and the Eye of Horus ... So why has it been hidden all these years?

Egyptology isn't about what's written in the Pyramid Texts (as it should be)

bc
.\


[edit on 8-5-2006 by beforebc]

Originally posted by beforebc
Wonderful .. nothing like peer-review to be sure that nothing of value comes of it ..

I suppose that your alternative would be, what, beforebc gets to review all scientific publications for accuracy prior to publication? Or, we all must just accept whatever anyone says on any subject as valid enough for publication in scientific journals?

Originally posted by beforebc
...the public has been hosted to a line of nonsense. Here are a few examples:

1.] Was Isis the mother of Horus?

NO! .. Hathor was: [Utterance 303, § 466] "Are you Horus, son of Osiris? Are you the god, the eldest one, the son of Hathor?"

Link please.
Might be because Isis and Hathor ended up (eventually) being merged into one and the same goddess?

The Greeks called Hathor by the name of their goddess, Aphrodite. In the very late stages of Egyptian religion (over two millennia after Hathor had first appeared) she became almost totally absorbed into Isis (who acquired, aside from Hathor's headdress, the sistrum as well), resulting in frequent mistaken identity between the two.

Source:www.pantheon.org... l

Hmmm... No, I'd have to say it's more likely that either you've gotten this quote from somebody trying to use this issue as pseudoscientific evidence, or you yourself are purposely misquoting the text:

466a. Art thou Horus, son of Osiris? Art thou, O N., the god, the eldest, son of Hathor?

Source:www.sacred-texts.com...
In the above text, "O N." means "O Nomen" (which means like "your name here," IOW, whoever the particular king was that was buried in that particular pyramid.) See:

In the translations of the texts of these pyramids, instead of using the different abbreviations for the different sovereigns, the letter N. (nomen) is used throughout.

Source:Scroll down to page ten (note green page numbers to the left of this webpage) my emphasis
So, apparently, the verse refers to the dead king as "the God, the eldest Son of Hathor..."

Originally posted by beforebc
2.] Was the djed pillar "the resurrected god - or Osiris backbone?"

NO! .. The djed pillar represents the neck bones: [Utterance 318 § 512] The King is a serpent ... who swallowed his seven uraei and his seven neck-vertebrae came into being

Straw man. I believe the thinking is that the Djed represents the spine, not the "backbone." The neck is certainly part of the spine.

Originally posted by beforebc
3.] Did the ancient Egyptians have an advanced celestial science? And why did they honor Jupiter? And where did the Eye of Horus motif come from? And where did the serpent come from?

The ancient Egyptians surely had a celestial science: [Utterance 638 § 1805] "O Osiris the King, the gods have knit together your face for you and Horus has given you his Eye"

of Jupiter and the Eye of Horus ... So why has it been hidden all these years?

Absurd conjecturing about Jupiter's red spot being the "Eye of Horus." The subject has been dealt with here at ATS before, I believe. The great red spot is almost certainly less than 500 years old.

Harte

Hello all,

As the earth rotates the path of the Ecliptic and Milky Way wave back and forth on the horizon. This is very noticeable in animation form to anyone with a computer star-chart program like SkyChart III, for instance. No the ancient Egyptians didn't have computers, but they did chart the movements of the Ecliptic and Milky Way where those movements are recorded in the Pyramid Texts. The following abridged passages from the Pyramid Texts, show use of the terms the wandering snake, or night snake, the hoe, the Two Wands, or the Two Domains in describing the Ecliptic and the Milky Way.

[Utterance 437; § 796] The earth speaks .. you set bounds to the celestial expanses between the Two Wands in this your spiritualized state.

[Utterance 382; § 670] O wandering snake, plough up the earth.

[Utterance 733; § 2261] Get back, snake which attacks in the night O Thoth, the night-snake! the night-snake!

[Utterance 560; § 1394] The earth is hacked up by the hoe

[Utterance 509; § 1111] The sky thunders, the earth quakes, Geb quivers, the two domains of the god roar, the earth is hacked up

[Utterance 524; § 1241] I sit on your great throne, you gods, and I am side by side with Atum between the Two Wands.

This has been ignored by Egyptologists

bc
.\

Originally posted by beforebc
1.] Was Isis the mother of Horus?

NO! .. Hathor was: [Utterance 303, § 466] "Are you Horus, son of Osiris? Are you the god, the eldest one, the son of Hathor?"

Well, no. He was during certain periods of history. During other periods of history, he was the high god (no parent) or the son of Hathor OR (later Egypt) the son if Isis (and there's thousands of statues and amulets showing Isis the mother and Horus the baby (with labels that indicate the names.)
www.crystalinks.com...

www.egyptianmyths.net...

Here's a very nice statue of Isis and her son, Horus.
www.metmuseum.org...

and another...
carlos.emory.edu...

and one of thousands and thousands of amulets on the same theme (it meant rebirth):
www.asia.si.edu...

3.] Did the ancient Egyptians have an advanced celestial science?

If their celestial science was so great, howcome they had to keep adjusting the length of the year? And that they didn't know about Jupiter's moons.

And why did they honor Jupiter?

They didn't honor the planet. They did blend Ammon with the characteristics of the Roman god, Jupiter. They called the planet, Her-wepes-tawy. Not Horus.
nefertiti.iwebland.com...

And where did the Eye of Horus motif come from?

The markings of the desert falcon. Lots of research on this.

And where did the serpent come from?

Which one?

The ancient Egyptians surely had a celestial science: [Utterance 638 § 1805] "O Osiris the King, the gods have knit together your face for you and Horus has given you his Eye"

Except that it refers to Horus restoring his own face and his own eye. And the Eye ws the moon.

Egyptology isn't about what's written in the Pyramid Texts (as it should be)

Nor does it base all its findings on one text, but thousands of them. And it places the texts within history, within what the culture believed at the time.

Originally posted by beforebc
As the earth rotates the path of the Ecliptic and Milky Way wave back and forth on the horizon. This is very noticeable in animation form to anyone with a computer star-chart program like SkyChart III, for instance. No the ancient Egyptians didn't have computers, but they did chart the movements of the Ecliptic and Milky Way where those movements are recorded in the Pyramid Texts. The following abridged passages from the Pyramid Texts, show use of the terms the wandering snake, or night snake, the hoe, the Two Wands, or the Two Domains in describing the Ecliptic and the Milky Way.

I think that you might change your opinion if you did more reading on other Egyptian texts.

The snake is Apep/Apophis, and lived in the underworld. The ancient Egyptians used incantations and charms against snakes and other evils, and they used wands of hippopotamus tusks in making these charms. There's a lot of texts about this.

So what's happening is that before going on the nightly trip to the underworld where the snake-monster lives, the sun god makes powerful incantations to ensure his nightly trip goes well. There's references to this in other texts. There in the underworld, Horus or Bast or Set (depending on the time in history) joins in the fight and keeps off Apep.
www.ancientegyptmagazine.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Perhaps you might like to do a bit more research.

Hello all,

I don't quote from Net-links in discussing the Pyramid Texts, I've read the book cover to cover many times and I quote directly from it by referencing the individual Utterances (long phrases) and articles (numbered sequential sections). Articles are designated with the symbol "§."

So a proper reference will not have a page number - it will read: Utterance xxx; § yyy.

The Pyramid Texts .. are those 4000 lines of hieroglyphic texts found scribed on the walls of the pyramids of Saqqara, Egypt. This form, long forgotten, was deciphered by means of the Rosetta Stone by Jean Francois Champollion (c1821). As such - they are the oldest written record in the world, the Sumerian not withstanding.

Writing Style .. it's typical in the ancient texts, for a star or a god, or a constellation, or the sun, or even an event to speak. One must be cautious as the speakers change several times in a single sentence and speakers frequently interrupt one another.

Interpreting the Pyramid Texts - the commonest English translation is the late Dr. R. O. Faulkner's The ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts ISBN 0-85668-297-7, Aris & Phillips, Ltd., Wiltshire, England. Faulkner was formerly of the British Museum in London. The Texts contain thousands of themes, or story lines and unfortunately they are incomplete and out of sequence.

A prime example of "out of sequence" is Horus. In terms of when (who came on the scene) when .. Horus is a late comer, but we find him first mentioned in Utterance 7

Recitation by Nut the great who dwells in the Mansion of Snit: The King is my son of my desire; I have given to him the Netherworld that he may preside over it as Horus who presides over the Netherworld.

In the Pyramid Texts the "Netherworld," BTW, is that unseen place [and the elapsed time] where Orion and Sothis (i.e., Sirius) vanish for a number of months in what we call heliacal setting. [Utterance 216; § 110] "Remember me. Orion is swallowed up by the Netherworld, Pure and living in the horizon. Sothis is swallowed up by the Netherworld, Pure and living in the horizon. It is well with me and with them. It is pleasant for me and for them, Within the arms of my father."

bc
.\

Originally posted by Byrd
I think that you might change your opinion if you did more reading on other Egyptian texts.

Just a wild guess, but...
You don't really believe this, do you Byrd?

Harte

I am quite the "novice" when it come's to the Egyptian culture, but I have always been facinated by the remains and the mystrie's that the race has left behind.
I was reading the post's and see that you folk's are quite knowlegable on the topic, as well.
I have managed to create quite a collection of Egyptian memorbilia and nick-nacks of such. sorry about babbling on,but I wanted to prove my interests in the topic.
My question is:
Has there ever been a definate closure to the time's of the creation of the culture's and people of discussion?
Do we, as being inquisitive mind's, of ever plan on finding the answer's in our life time's of such matter's?
Hope that doesn't sound to corny to you all, I was just wondering..

Originally posted by Allred5923
I have managed to create quite a collection of Egyptian memorbilia and nick-nacks of such.

A fellow collector! I have three amulets of Bast and an ushabti!

My question is: Has there ever been a definate closure to the time's of the creation of the culture's and people of discussion?

Yes, there's good timelines around. Wikipedia is probably the best to check on this. Dating's done by a lot of different techniques (even by things like wine jars and scribe records.

Hope that doesn't sound to corny to you all, I was just wondering..

Never hurts to ask. We actually DO agree on some things, y'know!

And I have learned SO much from researching all this stuff.

Hello Allred5923

Allred5923 asked about Creation.

bc] There are 10 ancient Texts remaining - if we exclude the mathematical papyrus, and allow the Negative Confessions to be counted.

They are these: The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts, the Coffin Texts, The Book of Two Ways, The Amduat, The Book of Gates, The Book of Caverns, The Book of the Dead, (with the Negative Confessions) the Theban Recension, and The Edifice of Taharqa.

And they all speak of Creation. But beware of those that respond quoting google. Orthodoxy would allow you to think (and google reeks of it) that the ancient Egyptians were Pagan. That is not so. Orthodoxy defines an Ennead as a pantheon of nine gods, kindly NOT telling you that there were two Enneads, a nine member and a ten member (greater) Ennead.

The Tenth member of the greater Ennead (i.e., pantheon of 10 gods) was a god, spelled God!

Orthodoxy is wrong!

bc
.\