Read your bibles

everyone ought to read a bible, if they did they would no longer beleive in god unless they were the most stubborn, close-minded of christians. the bible is full of contradictions, injustice, cruelty, racial intolerance, and absurdities.

as far as contradictions go there are many but i will name a few because i dont want to look for all of them that could take a few days.

these verses state that god made animals and then humans

genesis 1:25-- And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

genesis 1:26-- And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

And these verses state that god created humans then animals

genesis 2:18-- And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

genesis 2:19-- And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

doesn't seem like a very big mistake but an omnipotent being shouldn't make any mistakes, not even little ones.

The bible also holds many injustices such as...

Exodus 7:4-- But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.

god had hardened Pharaohs heart so he will not listen to moses so that god can have the pleasure of killing the Egyptians with his armies.

and god is supposed to forgive your sins right? isn't that a big theme of god that he is all merciful and forgiving?

Joshua 24:19-- And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

pretty staightforward, no real way around that "he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins."

cruelty is in almost all the famous stories of the bible, saddom and gamora, god flooding the earth, the plagues on Egypt. All of these demonstrate gods love to commit cruelty.

the racial intolerance I refer to is gods obvious bias to the jews. All throughout the bible it is mentioned time and time again that god like the jews. here is one example

Exodus 19:5-- ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people

I dont know why god likes the jews so much, he just does. Maybe it was a jew that wrote the bible. And god said "those jews are some cool guys."

and my favorite, absurdities. these are quite funny sometimes and they really stump bible beleivers.

Exodus 16:35-- And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.

40 years to travel from egypt to canaan? even back then it would have taken at most 15 days.

Dueteronomy 2:11-- Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims.

Giant? apparently giants existed back then. God must have just not liked them and killed them all or something like that.

Hi Daedalas,

If you really want to understand these issues, I believe I can help you. If you are just want to accuse and mock, then OK, so be it. Do you really want to understand these things?

Gordon

2000 years of some of the most intelligent theological minds on the planet and finally we find out there is no God...
What did I miss?
Everyone will believe eventually. Either now or later and if too late, well the consequences are something to fear. But it's free choice after all, it is your soul, do with it what you will. I'm sorry...

Originally posted by managerie
Hi Daedalas,

If you really want to understand these issues, I believe I can help you. If you are just want to accuse and mock, then OK, so be it. Do you really want to understand these things?

Gordon

managerie, I really would like to understand if your willing. I may question but I will not mock, promise.

Originally posted by police_officer339
2000 years of some of the most intelligent theological minds on the planet and finally we find out there is no God...
What did I miss?
Everyone will believe eventually. Either now or later and if too late, well the consequences are something to fear. But it's free choice after all, it is your soul, do with it what you will. I'm sorry...

If you would care to elaborate on that a little that would be great. If you think I'm wrong then disprove me. I didn't do this to disprove god, thats impossible. this was done to disprove the bible and the biblical god. I dont know if your aware, but there are more gods than just the one in the bible.

Originally posted by daedalas

Originally posted by managerie
Hi Daedalas,

If you really want to understand these issues, I believe I can help you. If you are just want to accuse and mock, then OK, so be it. Do you really want to understand these things?

Gordon

managerie, I really would like to understand if your willing. I may question but I will not mock, promise.

Great. I would really like to help explain these things I will endeavor to explain the answers biblically and truthfully in all respects. Can you list 2 or three questions that trouble you that no one is giving an acceptable answer to?

I did this with a high school bible class at a Christian school. They wrote down their toughest questions, I researched them, and presented the stark, unpolitically correct biblical answers for several periods. My job is not to make this all palatable to the human mind and "nice". It is to agree with God and explain His word to people who are seeking to understand His views, even if they do not agree with them.

Yes I'm aware of all the "other" gods, but answer this.(and I am under no compulsion to disprove anyone, this is still a debate site, correct?)
Are the other Gods, Zeus, and his family, or the more well known ones in Roman times?
Perhaps you speak of Monatonka of the North American Indians?
Or BAL of India
Do you think they all sit around and drink coffee and watch us?
No, sadly, there are only numerous Gods in some peoples minds. And Faith is a wonderful and inspiring thing, it allows me to NOT ask you to disprove me, you can't and I don't need you too. It gives me hope, peace and vast amounts of love.

Hey daedalas.

I will tackle this one for starters.

40 years to travel from egypt to canaan? even back then it would have taken at most 15 days.

One of the answers to why the Israelites wandered in the desert for forty years lies in Joshua 5.

Joshua 5 KJV

6 For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.

Also, it gave Moses and his inner circle time to build, train, and begin to equip a great army with which to conquer the Holy Land. He needed a cohesive unit that had seen the wonders of the LORD manifest before them, and would follow his and his successors orders to the letter immediately and without question.

ok managerie, here is a question for you.

Dueteronomy 4:2 -- Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

God says that we shouldn't add to, or take away from, any of his commands. Why then don't modern Bible-believers stone to death blasphemers, Sabbath breakers, and disobedient sons?

I have some questions, managerie...

Why is slavery condoned in the bible? Why does an all powerful being need to rest (sabbath day)? How come we don't see "miracles" anymore (people walking on water, water turning into blood, talking burning bushes, people turning into salt)? How do you stop the sun from moving through the sky when it doesn't move at all?

Originally posted by truthseeka
Why does an all powerful being need to rest (sabbath day)?

A parent teaches his children by example. Maybe that was God’s intention as well. Working 6 days of the week and resting on the 7th. Also it would give us the framework to record history by giving structure to time. If we had no structure to the days we lived it would just be day, after day, after day, after day.

Hope you find the answers you are looking for.

Blessings friends...

Originally posted by daedalas
God says that we shouldn't add to, or take away from, any of his commands. Why then don't modern Bible-believers stone to death blasphemers, Sabbath breakers, and disobedient sons?

Christians entered into a new covenant (agreement) with God through the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We need to concentrate on the New Testament and the New Covenant not ancient Jewish law.

Jesus died for our sins allowing all God’s children the opportunity to accept him and be forgiven no matter what the sin. This forgiveness is not a limited time offer. Salvation through Christ is available for the entire duration of the sinner’s life. If God (or man) were to strike down sinners he would be going against Gods own words because these people (sinners) were not allowed the term of their life to change their ways and find salvation through Jesus Christ.

This is how I understand the word and my faith.

Blessings…

Sorry to shoot holes in your theory, but I believe that the opposite is true.

Romans 10:17
So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The more you study the Bible, the more you are likely to believe. Just look at the life of C.S. Lewis. It would be difficult to find someone that intelligent every day, yet reading and studying the Bible led him to believe.

God says that we shouldn't add to, or take away from, any of his commands. Why then don't modern Bible-believers stone to death blasphemers, Sabbath breakers, and disobedient sons?

daedalas, you know dbrandt and I both answered this in your other thread, "God and Religion are two different things", but this is important enough to say twice. I mean, even Christ will have to come again to prove he was the One the first time around.

As has been said above, we live under a new covenant with Christ on this side of the cross.

Matthew 9

12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

daedalas, you know dbrandt and I both answered this in your other thread, "God and Religion are two different things", but this is important enough to say twice.

Sorry Icarus, I didn't realize you guys answered that, i hadn't checked that thread in awhile.

alright, my bad, fresh question.

Dueteronomy 3:11-- For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

ok, this clearly references that giants exists. Not just a large man or a giant among politics or something. His bed is nine cubits in length and his name is og. So my question is pretty simple, how do you explain this?



[edit on 25-4-2006 by daedalas]

Originally posted by daedalas

daedalas, you know dbrandt and I both answered this in your other thread, "God and Religion are two different things", but this is important enough to say twice.

Sorry Icarus, I didn't realize you guys answered that, i hadn't checked that thread in awhile.

alright, my bad, fresh question.

Dueteronomy 3:11-- For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

ok, this clearly references that giants exists. Not just a large man or a giant among politics or something. His bed is nine cubits in length and his name is og. So my question is pretty simple, how do you explain this?



[edit on 25-4-2006 by daedalas]

Hey, giants are real, according to the bible.

Then again, so are zombies, and sorceresses, and talking snakes/bushes, and demons, and angels...basically, all the stuff you read in fiction is actually real.

It all comes down to a question from Cosby's early monologues, the one about Noah. God tells Cos (Noah) to build an ark, and gives the dimensions in cubits. Cos (Noah) says, "Ok," thinks it over for a second and then says, "What's a cubit?" If you have never heard the routine, it is well worth the listen. I used to listen to Cos' early comedy on vinyl back in the day, and it still cracks me up.

Anyway back on topic, um, How long can you tread water? Just funnin' witcha.

So realistically, how tall might a giant like Og have been?

Well, the largest man on record was nearly 9 feet tall. He
did not live long and died at 22 due to complications related
to his size. Recently, there have been two very tall men at
approximately 7.75 feet tall. Given this, it's fairly
reasonable to assume that Og was about 8 to 9 feet tall.

So how long is "the cubit of a man"?

If you use the standard cubit (20"/cubit), Og's height
would be:

Og's height = 9 cubit * 20"/cubit * 1ft/12" = 15 feet

This is NOT real likely.

If you use the lower forearm cubit (12"/cubit), Og's height
would be:

Og's height = 9 cubit * 12"/cubit * 1ft/12" = 9 feet

This is in line with present day very tall men or "giants".

link

Your questions are not very good...or thought through very well. They are typical questions of the flesh. They are also very good in confusing those Christians who are still on milk and not on meat.

Lets take a look at your posting concerning the Chapters in Genesis.

Genesis 1:25 ...ok..it states that God made the animals...no problem..
Genesis 1:26 Man to have dominion , in Gods image..no problem..

Then you try to use Genesis 2:18 and 2:19 to show where God made a mistake.
Genesis 2:18 is about God making a help meet for Adam.
Genesis 2:19 is about God bringing the animals before Adam so that he could name them...not that Adam was made first.

I do not see where this is a contradiction here. YOU seem wont so use this as a contradiction. The emphasis is on the events not the order here. YOu seem wont to use a placebo here...to give the impression of a contradiction. This is a very common technique among unbelievers to pose questions of the Word.

Now watch again as you do the same in explaining cruelty in the bible...you are wont to leave out what the other nations were doing surrounding the people God has chosen to carry his name on their lips. You like most unbelievers...try to paint God as cruel...yet totally ignore what other people,not Gods chosen people, were......"Already doing in cruelty." This is history ..dont omit the big or whole picture...to focus on what you dont believe in.

You begin with Exodus7:4 and try to explain the hardening of Pharoahs heart..and that God enjoys killing or the pleasure of killing. This is typical of Humans to put their emphasis and views on what is written. The emphasis on Exodus 7:4 is to bring the Lords people out of Egypt. Not the pleasure of killing Egyptians.
By the way..who were the Egyptians killing , wearing out...big time and being cruel to..at this time in history. You dont seem wont to explain this whole story??
THe emphasis of this verse is to bring these people out of Egypt whom the Lord God has chosen..you put the emphasis on Gods pleasure in killing Egyptians ..when the verse says no such thing. This is the placebo..the shell game..It works well on Christians who cannot think further than their emotions. New Christians still on milk and not strong meat.

What you find Daedalus in the bible is that God is just as hard on His chosen people if they are disobedient and will take their lives too. THe emphasis of the Bible from begining to end is obedience...Obedience is Biblical Love..not what humans want to substitute..or make a placebo ..in the shell game.

The emphasis is also on a Soverign God...you would have the emphasis switched to a subject god...to answer to the opinions of men. This is typical human reasoning..this is Gnosticism...wise men .. This is also what you find in Luceferianism. Logic and reason of men.

I will remind you Daedalus that the emphasis in the Bible from begining to end is also that God forgives those he chooses to forgive..for His reasons ..not the logic and reason of men. There is forgiveness both Olde and New Testaments ...for Gods purposes..not for the reasons of men.
You in your placebo...want to switch the pea from under the shell and make it for mans reasons..claiming ...unfair labor practice. This is typical human reasoning.

Once again ..you do not mention the cruelty already operating in the Nations surrounding the people God has chosen to represent him at this time in History. WE know this because God gives these very people mentioned ..instructions not to do as the people in the Nations surrounding them do. To make themselves seperate from these people so as not to adopt thier customs and practices...especially the cruelty....like sacraficing thier first born...or passing them through the fires. YOu dont seem wont to mention this...and put the emphasis on Gods cruelty. Very intresting behavior....Daedalus.
What I see you doing Daedalus is counting on the concept that many Christians are very ignorant of the history of Gods people at this time and also ignorant of the nations surrounding Gods people mentioned here. You are quite correct for your purposes to think and operate this way..because many Christians are this ignorant of the history or the bigger picture. But not all Christians ..are in this category...of lack of Historical knowlege.

The reason I know this about your postings Daedalus is that it is obvious by your posts you do not know a Soverign God. The emphasis of the Bible..The Word is Gods Soverignty and his Holyness. You are wont to put it in human terms and reasoning so that you can pass judgement on God while totally ignoring the history of the nations surrounding these people for whom God chose to represent Him at this time in History....verses those he did not choose to represent him.

Then to confound the issue more...you use terms like "racial intolerance" Amazing Daedaluls. It becomes obvious that you do not know a Soverign God.
THere is something else I do not believe you know...Daedalus...Salty Christians verses Sugary sweet type of Christians still on milk. No problem here Daedalus. I merely mention this so that those other Believers here reading this post will also know the difference.
We are the Salt of the Earth Daedalus..not the sugar. By such questions and seeding doubts many of your logic and reason would attempt to take the Salt out of the Belief and replace it with the worlds sugar. This way they will become like the nations which surrounded Gods Chosen people at this time in history....Olde Testament times. We are not to be this way Daedalus.

You have some good questions...Daedalus...and they will stump many still on milk..no doubt.

Thanks for your post,
I pray that you will eventually learn to see with eyes different from those with which you are presently seeing. I would suggest that other Believers who read this post also pray for you .

Thanks,
Orangetom

God chose the Jews because they were the least of all people in those days, and sought to make them his "peculiar treasure". They were chosen to make God known to the world in a way never done before. God gave them a set of rules and ordinances that showed what was to be considered clean and unclean, holy versus profane. One of the key things about thier God ( I hate the word religion, but God even defines that "WORD" ) was He made it clear how every ritual, sacrifice, and approach to Him was to be done. God would not allow any deviation to that, and if you look at the Bible you see many instances about how man thinks he can approach a Holy God, and God corrects them to say you must do it my way! Adam and Eve wanted to approach him ( fellowship with him after sinning ) they used fig leaves, God said animal skins. Cain brought fruits and vegatables and was rejected, Abel brought a blood sacrifice and was accepted. Wandering in the wilderness was caused by the 10 of the 12 spies, 2 came back with good reports and faith that God would defeat thier enemies for them. The other 10 saw how big some of them were compared to themselves, ( now they saw all the miracles of God yet they still doubted His power!) and that they couldn't go up against them and it caused all the Jews hearts to melt with fear. God was angry for thier lack of faith in Him and said they would wander 4 years for every person who brought back a bad report for a total of 40 years. This wandering allowed those who didn't believe to die before before reaching the promised land of all the adults of that generation. Only Caleb and Joshua the spies who had faith entered into it ( Moses didn't even make it, he smote the rock with his staff to make water come out when God specifically told him to talk to it, the reason for talking was everyone was starting to associate Moses power with the staff in thier hearts, so God wanted to prevent that, and Moses disobeyed Him! ) Joshua in Joshua 24:17 said what he said because God knew that they would not repent of thier sins and therefor He would not forgive them. THERE MUST BE REPENTANCE TO RECIEVE FORGIVENESS FROM GOD, ONE EXCEPTION IS PURE IGNORANCE AS IN WHEN THE CRUCIFIED JESUS. THEY REALLY FELT IN THIER OWN HEARTS THEY WERE DOING GOD A SERVICE SO THAT IS WHY JESUS SAID "FATHER FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO". If you read in Jeremiah even there is a classic example where God is telling them to stop thier sins by worshipping the queen of heaven, and they boldly say they will yet continue in it and God says I will surely punish you for it! I hope this answers some of your questions. I wonder if you realize how short time really is right now? Bible prophecy, and I am not talking about general items either is happening left and right.

Just so you know the European Union Senate goes by seat number, it just so happens that seat 666 is empty. The Bible states the anti-christ will not be revealed until we are taken out of the way as stated in II Thessalonians Chapter 2 verse 7. The spirit that is called Maitreya, Teacher has claimed thru his so called prophet William Creme that he has taken up residence in some individual in England. Go to; www.shareintl.org... At the appointed time he says he will show himself to the world on TV as Buddha to Buddhists, and what Christians think Christ looks like to them, or to sum it up what an individual thinks their God should look like to them. That appointed time will most likely be shortly after the Rapture. He will talk to them in their mind and no voice will be heard by them from him thru their TV set. This will be a powerful deception to those who remain. Javier Solana who is of the European Union holds 3 seats, one happens to be the military. He has set up what is called the European Neighborhood Policy, hold on to your hats on this one! This policy is a peace agreement that is for many nations and it starts January 1st, 2007 and it is for 7 YEARS, and get this it has a review at midpoint at 3 1/2 years! Go to; www.evenmore.co.uk... Also if we look at the book of Daniel where it talks of the Image of Gold, Silver, Brass, and Iron mixed with clay. The last empire, the revived Roman Empire is depicted by the iron and clay. Interestingly the Iron does not mix with clay but clings loosely to it. The 10 toes depict the ten primary European Nations in the EU which are Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxemburg, Portugal, Spain, The Netherlands, United Kingdom. The clay represents the other countries that have loosely committed themselves to the union. Go to; www.evenmore.co.uk... Satan definitely throws it right in the face of non-believers if you Go to; www.evenmore.co.uk... Here it shows a Eurodollar and the backside is incredible, and if it wasn’t for this site by a brother I wouldn’t know what the backside looked like because all other places only show the front! Here we have the Goddess Europa riding a Bull which in Greek mythology is really the God Zeus in disguise who in turn turns on Europa and rapes her. Now why would any country want that as their symbol on their money? Why? Because that is exactly what the anti-christ will do the False church that rides him during the tribulation he will turn on the whore and rape her with fire. Most likely it will be a nuclear weapon since it is turned to rubble in only an hour. Here in Revelation Chapter 17 Verse 16; And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. Sharon gave the Gaza strip to the Palestinians, and God gave that land to Israel and no one can give it away. I found it interesting when I stumbled upon the Temple Society and found out how Jews are treated with extreme prejudice at the temple mount in an Israel controlled capitol! Go to; www.templeinstitute.org... I have heard that Sharon plans on using European Union (NOT U.N. TROOPS!) to monitor his borders by the new peace plan and has plans to move the Vatican and U. N. to Jerusalem! Just as Jesus came into the world during the festival of light, became the real lamb on the Passover, I believe the Rapture will happen during the feast of trumpets. Why because a trumpet sounds at our Rapture. I believe we will depart very, very, very, soon. I am not date setting, because no matter if it happens during the feast of trumpets it will still take us all by surprise because we have no idea which one and at what moment.