"Pentagon acknowledges fabricating a 'Zarqawi Legend'

If this threads title is allowed to stay as is - I predict a flood of similar titles in the future.

am i the only one who read "24 million for propaganda campaign"? yea I'm pretty fed up with these politicans. I look at the world they are living in, and it aint the same world IM living in. I look at the wars they are fighting, and it aint the same wars IM fighting. I look at the life they are living, and it aint the life that any of US have ever been living, but these are our representatives? i have a question, which one of you is a multimillion dollar former big business owner, with a mansion and 5 sports cars? Thats what i thought, so when i see 24 million dollars going to a campaign to make people BELIEVE what they are doing is right, that makes me feel like my taxes aren't represented anymore. When i see all this money going to things that my people are never going to see or use, i start to wonder whos being represented in this country.

the Zarqawi thing doesn't aggervate me as much as the fact there ARE programs like this. I don't remember my politican saying "and by the way, i believe in information warfare. We need a multimillion dollar for spreading misinformation, its for YOUR benefit." NO, this isn't for my benefit. We aren't benefitting if you move your businesses to countries we "freed". Yea sure things will be cheaper, but they have to be with our jobs at walmart. Sure we have a way to survive, and people ask "well you can survive off your job, this is the land of the free", but tell me this, what slave owner ever killed its slaves for anything other then rebelling? None, they need you, they just don't want you figuring anything out. Thats why its in THEIR benefit to have campaigns like this. Who benefits from weapon contracts here? you westpoint? jsobecky, you benefitting from weapons contracts and foriegn business? no, well now you know just who IS benefitting, and that makes me question their motives, beyond the washington posts or any other news agency that isn't owned by the same business that are going to profit from a pro war attitude.

sorry for my rant but im too sick of watching as people say "thats not an unbias source" when the very information being let out is the bias source. You cant have a single unbias source when the source of that information is bias. there is a difference between bias news sources and bias information sources. The pentagon, the government, the business men, well they have every reason to be bias, and if they are feeding all the news stations their information, what source ISNT bias?

[edit on 23-4-2006 by grimreaper797]

Good post, grim. You, too, Rasobasi; I was gonna say something along those lines.

SS, you shouldn't have worded the title the way you did. Though this IS basically what they did, you just gave the people who love being lied to major ammo to discredit this thread. IMO, you dropped a Salvo exposing these liars, but it lost a lot of power from this title.

See, despite the damning thing about this situation, they will jump all over the first weakness they see, being the title. As they yell "read the article in context," they will conveniently ignore the part about MILLIONS spent on propaganda AND the part about INTENTIONALLY playing up his role. So, don't EVEN mention the fact that it has been known for a while that the Pentagon puts out fake news in Iraq and in the US.

Can I ask y'all a question? (you know who I'm asking) What is so great about being lied to that I'm missing? Is it fun? Does it make you feel safe? Is it good knowing that they think you are that dumb? What's good, yo?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
there's no way to get around that.

There's also no way to get around the FACT that the pentagon is engaging in Psychological Operations for the express intent of DUPING the public into futher supporting the war.

I think we should be in Iraq, but this sort of stuff is disreputable. AND it makes it much more difficult to attack other actual threats, like Iran now. Who's to say that the administration and pentagon aren't just making stuff up now, to "galvinize" support for an Iran War? Yes, Iran is a threat, but having a leadership that is, apparently, constantly lying to the public, erodes the basic foundation for this country, an educated and decisive public.

Its completely unjustificable and near criminal for the pentagon to have done this, to LIE to the public for the purposes of CONTROLLING the public. If the public can't be convinced, through the truth, that a war is worth fighting, then it shouldn't be fought.

Grim, you got my last WATs for this month. Thank you for your plain spoken, no BS, insightful post!

Sadly some of us can't admit that we are being chumped out by the elite and prefer to believe in the 1950 style of government where everything was black and white and we were the good guys.

It's a brave new world!!

The post title doesn't bother me and the complaints are just a ruse to try to keep us from seeing the big picture.

[edit on 23-4-2006 by whaaa]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Ask the relatives of the 3,000 dead 9/11 victims.

And what would they know, other than the reports that have been given to them by a group of people that are now admiting that they lie and make things up in order to influence people?????

Can we ask zarqawi's victims if he exists??? Who are those victims? Which ones were killed by him, and which were killed by other terrorists, only to have the attack attributed to him?

How many attacks have happened thaty were counter-intelligence operations in the field, for that matter? We know, for example, that the British, in fighting irish terorrists, permited their undercover agents to equip, plot, and even carry out, terror attacks. We also know that, minimally, the US government has operations where in violent radicals are 'culled' out of peaceful radical groups, and permited to carry out attacks. All in the name of "galvinizing public support" to act out against them.

Hell, we also now KNOW that some of the top brass in the pentagon hatched a plot to carry out acts of sabotague, murder, and terrorism, WITHIN THE US AGAINST AMERICAN CITIZENS, and to pin it on cuban communist agents, all for the sake of 'galvinizing public support' against the cubans.


How, precisely, can we possibly know whats an actual threat when officials are deciding whats a threat to us and then putting out misinformation to convince us that its a threat???

The public has to be trusted to be able to determine whats a threat and what isn't, based on open and honest information. We KNOW that have the morons in government can't think for themselves to begin with, why in the world would we trust them to make these sorts of decisions for us, and agree to let them, literally, delude us???

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Overwhelming evidence points to that

Newspaper reports, especially when the government and military are flooding them with misinformation, are not evidence.

It doesn't matter if there is a guy named Zarqawi, i agree, its practically certain that he does, he has a family in jordan fer chris-sakes. But it doesn't matter, he's just some guy. The zarqawi mythos is what is the problem here.

Who's the threat in Iraq, right now? There's lots of jihadis. Is the biggest threat the islamo-fasicsts? The secular baathists? OBL? al-Sadr? What are we supposed to be really watching out for? Is the information 'galvinizing public support' against syria, part of yet another psy-op?

Have any false-flag terror attack operations been carried out? Abroad? Domestically?

what is relevant is the fact that in this forum no one has presented any evidence showing Zarqawi is not real. The article does not state such.

Agreed. So now lets move on, and get to the meat of the problem. Zarqawi's real, if we know where he is, we need to kill him.

But what about the whole misinformation campaign conducted by the US government on US civilians? Do you have any thoughts on that?

jsobecky
Why is this false and misleading thread title allowed to remain on ATS? It has no basis in fact.

A misleading thread title on an online discussion board is not the major story here. THe major story is
"US Government conducts psy-op on its own public in order to mislead and dupe them about the war".

Xphilesphan

It’s ok, you have every right to your opinion.

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If the title the only thing the bush types can nit pick on, then this has to be a heavy article. Yes, They will never admit he doesn’t exist, but they have to admit something because the lie is just getting too ridiculous.

Or perhaps they have a new Spin on their false flag ops these days, I’ll bet now they will exclusively attribute them to sectarian violence.

How can I say they admitted zarqawi doesn’t exist well, The idea of Zarqawi, everything they attributed to him, the bombings, the being everywhere at once, the losing a leg then growing it back. They admitted that image of “zarqawi” that everyone has, was a fabrication, and hence they have admitted that Zarqawi does not exist.

So what if they only admitted they “bent the truth” what’s the difference what spin they want to put on it. Just as we have been saying all along, zarqawi is nothing but a concept used to control people, a psyop. Just like Emanuel Goldestein the character in the book 1984. Continue reading that book and you will realise Goldestein entire organisation was also a fabrication.

And if he is just that, think what else is a psyop, OBL, Al Qaeda, 9/11, think about what is the truth, we are all supposed to be truth seekers here. The Iraqi resistance is fighting for their country and their freedom.

But if the title is going to be a point that the busheet eaters (those who eat up bush’s lies) are going to use against logical argument, I’m willing to change it to "Pentagon acknowledges fabricating a 'Zarqawi Legend'".

God. It seems the bush types see me as a bigger threat to the truth than the pentagon.

P.S.

There's no such thing as Santa Clause, but there was a St. Nicolas and it isn't any more innacurate to say that Santa doesn't exsist is it?

To see that my anology is being used has made my day. Thankyou twitchy…. People are listening.


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There are other sources concerning Zarqawi that do not come from the Pentagon

Oh really? Which sources are those? Some obscure anonymous website that submits some obscure audio file or tid bit about “zarqawi” and then disappears of the internet forever, which the pentagon later repeats as fact.

Yep I’m convinced, that’s definitely evidence enough. LOL LOL!

How about the fact that not one person in Iraq has made a positive identification of this bogey man? Not one.
All of Iraq is looking for him INCLUDING THE IRAQI RESISTANCE, and yet no one can find him. Isn’t that evidence of something, or rather, nothing?

Zarqawi is a man who most likely engages in insurgent activities in Iraq.

How can you say that with such certainty when the only source that is saying he exists just admitted they are a bunch of liars.

the Zarqawi thing doesn't aggervate me as much as the fact there ARE programs like this. I don't remember my politican saying "and by the way, i believe in information warfare. We need a multimillion dollar for spreading misinformation, its for YOUR benefit."

You can Say that again bro!

Nygaand

There's also no way to get around the FACT that the pentagon is engaging in Psychological Operations for the express intent of DUPING the public into futher supporting the war.

I think we should be in Iraq, but this sort of stuff is disreputable. AND it makes it much more difficult to attack other actual threats, like Iran now.

You are such a contradiction, basically what you have just said is, what you are unhappy about is their lie was clumsy, and gets in the way of more imperialism. Well, I’m sure you could have done it so much better nygaand.


[edit on 23-4-2006 by Syrian Sister]

their lie was clumsy, and gets in the way of more imperialism

This is incorrect. If a nation is ACTUALLY threatened by another nation, then it has every right in the world to defend itself, even if that means occupying the other nation.

Thats not imperialism. If someone wants to kill you, you kill them before they get the oppurtunity. Thats common sense.

The problem with these lies is that they can be used to make common sense a tool of imperialism, and that they can, in the long run, short circuit our common sense.

Common sense is a misnomer. There's nothing common about it, as far as I can tell.

Representational government is designed specifically to remedy the lack of 'common' sense that every civilization has to grapple with.

Psyops are a necessary tool in war, but they're a weapon, and like any weapon, they work best when pointed away from the face.

Targetting the Iraqi populace with demoralizing propaganda during wartime is par for the course. Targetting the American populace with tales of the boogeyman to drum up emotional (fear) support is quite simply an act of terrorism against the American citizenry, IMO. :shk:

first i would like to say Nygdan that i agree with most of everything you say (except for your opinion of course)

We can say we "know" alot of things, but if the people saying them have something to benefit from saying it, how do we not question motives? I have alot less a problem with them releasing something that would damage their benefits rather then reinforcing them. At least if its damaging you know that they are either A. completely crazy B. trying to bring down the entire government, because they went crazy or C. they were forced to talk truth for once because they got backed into a corner.

Thats how it works, and we, for the most, fail to see it. We don't notice how much each and every one of them can benefit from what they are saying. Its not ALWAYS our fault, sometimes they are sneaky. But when their corporate interests and benefits are wide open, their friends are making money, they are getting nice little promises by such friends, and we still go along with it without question? why then your a hypocrite for calling yourself free. I do not recall the founders of this country saying, "you have the freedom to become an idiot and ignore the truth so it can be just like every other government established in this world." They made us free to make the choice of which way of life we wished to live, not the choice of if we wished to live at all. Why if you choose to not be educated and not be free, then leave, because this country only has room for those who wish to be in such a society.

To be free you must sacrifice, whether it be your life, or just some time to educate yourself. This is what is required of a free man, that he be educated, and informed. When you are spoon fed information, and you let your government have secret programs to trick you into going along with your war, you are fighting against freedom. We have to look at the bigger picture, its not this one man, Zarqawi. This is about war of education and misinformation. If you fail to see this, then your farther down in this ditch that you have dug for yourself then i can see.

When we realize that benefits and corporate interests are more important to our government then we are, only then will we start to see a common difference. This common difference isnt race, religion, republican or liberal. How are we common? Its that we are all equally disposable for those super rich corporations. How are we different? Some of us cant come to grips with it while others can. Until we ALL figure it out, things wont change. These wars of information for profits will continue, whats real will become a blur with what is a fantasy made up by the pentagon, and we will pay our lives, not for freedom but for everything freedom opposes. Welcome to The Divided States of America.

[edit on 23-4-2006 by grimreaper797]

This is most hilarious thread on ATS!

*crash* *bam* Whoops, I fell out of my chair!

I suppose the BBC News are liars.

Wikipedia doesn't have any idea of what the truth is.

Slate wouldn't know the truth if it were to slap them in the face.

New York Times can't seem to find a story that's legitimate.

And it's known that Asia Times is infamous for reporting false propaganda.

Face it people. While the Pentagon identified this scumbag that supposedly don't exist, the media was making him into a legend.

Muaddib, WestPoint23 and FlyersFan all deserve recognition for sticknig by the truth.

The Pentagon did what they thought would catch this SOB.

Any of you critics willing to let this "saint", as you would call him, spend the night at your home?

Hell, from what I've read, you'd welcome this lowlife with open arms!

Apparently Intelearthling didn't read the article about the US PSYOP campaign to villainize Zarqawi and play on US xenophobia. As well, maybe s/he doesn't realize that the US government is a major source of information for news agencies nor did s/he apparently read the entire section in Wikipedia on Zarqawi entitled Credibility Questions.

I have some other things to note...

This story seems to have many pecularities. For example, why is that the mainstream media is not picking up on this, except for the likes of Washington Post, and Newsweek.

The same day that the Washington Post ran their story, FOX via AP, ran a story entitled U.S. General: Zarqawi Behind Most Suicide Attacks in Iraq

It still seems that the propaganda is still in full force, and Rumsfield is trying to claim that bin Laden, Zarqawi Manipulating U.S. Press apparently citing that they are better at it than the US government is. What the hell does that mean?

As well, how does this explain that bin Laden and al-Zawahiri spoke highly of Zarqawi in tapes released by them. Are these tapes fake too?

So what the hell is going on here? How far deep does this rabbit hole go?

[edit on 23-4-2006 by Jamuhn]

Sticking by the truth?



Intel, you are too much. I guess you also deny that the Pentagon puts out fake news in Iraq AND in the US. What part of "fabricated" implies "truth?"

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The title of this thread is dead wrong. The pentagon absolutely
DID NOT admit that there is no such thing as Zarqawi. They did
NOT make him up. He is real. He is deadly.

Where is your proof?

Originally posted by FlyersFan if you want any credibility

show me the evidence
Otherwise I refuse to believe in your boogie-man.

Amazing how Zarqawi can die and come back to life, just like freakin jesus.



[edit on 24-4-2006 by Legalizer]

nygaand

If a nation is ACTUALLY threatened by another nation, then it has every right in the world to defend itself, even if that means occupying the other nation.

Not according to International law, you can't just attack someone because you claim to percieve them as a threat, under international law, no, under commen decency and morality, you know, the stuff that seperates human beings from savages, you can't attack someone just because you claim you think they are a danger to you. A nation can only attack another when the other nation has declared war on it. And the latter would be in the wrong.

Did Iraq declare war on you? No.
Did they threaten you in any verbal way? No.
Did they have any means of actuallyn harming you? No.
Did they obey every command of the United Nations? Yes.

So spare the world your self righteous bigotry. How would you like north korea to wipe you of the face of the earth just because they don't like the look of you.

Yeah, not nice when your in the other persons shoes is it.

Legalizer

Oh he's better than jesus, he can grow back limbs like a reptile, be in two places at once like an electron, and be dead and alive at the same time like schroddingers cat.

Originally posted by dubiousone
You begin to question what mommy and daddy said and
slowly get a grip on reality.

Oh brother.

UBL is on tape admitting that he is the 9/11 perp.
Zarqawi admitted he is the perp of the Jordon bombings.
His family even publically disowned him after all of Jordan
denounced Zarqawi as the terrorist that he is.

wanna' talk about getting a grip on reality??

Originally posted by LeftBehind
Isn't the title of this thread dangerously close to posting false information?

Yep. And the author of that title whines that the pentagon is
not telling the truth and is making things up to be bigger than
they are Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, eh??

Originally posted by Code_Burger
The topic of discussion is "Pentagon acknowledges
fabricating a 'Zarqawi Legend'".

The title WAS - Pentagon admits Zarqawi doesn't exist.

Fabricating a legend and saying someone doesn't exist
are two totally different things. The first builds up someone
to be something more than they are. The other wipes the
person out of existence totally. They aren't even close to
the same thing and the original title was pure bunk.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Code_Burger
The topic of discussion is "Pentagon acknowledges
fabricating a 'Zarqawi Legend'".

The title WAS - Pentagon admits Zarqawi doesn't exist.

Fabricating a legend and saying someone doesn't exist
are two totally different things. The first builds up someone
to be something more than they are. The other wipes the
person out of existence totally. They aren't even close to
the same thing and the original title was pure bunk.

I am well aware they are two different things, thank you. I have already commented on the title, and suggested to Syrian Sister she might want to change it, long before you had posted in the thread, I might add. Go back and read it, please.