The Iranian President wants us to attack!

There is a lot of talk on these boards about an attack on Iran. Some discussions are civil and other are less civil. There has been talk about what the best course of action is etc. Some have suggested force, some have suggested diplomatic means. Less stable members of this forum have suggested a preemptive Nuclear strike having forgotten just how awful Nuclear weapons really are. (This course of action is bizarre considering the fact that Iranian missiles can't actually hit the US let alone the fact that Iran doesn't actually have nukes. I would also contend that many of these people have never met an Iranian and should probably do so before they advocate wholesale destruction of their nation. Additionally I like to separate a people from their state. I'm not a great fan of Bush that doesn't mean all Americans are like him. The same thing works for the Iranians)

Heres my 2 cents on what we in the west should do. Firstly, lets look at the history of Iran

1) You have a theocracy which came to power in 1979. This theocracy replaced the Shah, a pro western monarch who was hated thanks to his repressive domestic policies. Having ruled since 1941 he was backed by us in the west and did our bidding. Naturally when he was overthrown we severed all ties with Iran and relations have been icy since.

2) Now, the Islamic revolution came about as a result of hatred of the pro western Shah and his short comings. Now in 2006 although there is no longer a Western influence and distribution of wealth is slightly better, the present government has now turned out to be just as repressive as the Shah and as a result support for the regime has dropped. People are fed up. They want jobs and prosperity for their children, they are in a sense just like us in the west.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

So what do the Mullahs do? Their current problem is falling internal support and fear of a democratic revolution. They don't want democracy but they want to cement their place of power.

ENTERS: Mahmud Ahmadinejad a fire brand, hand picked by the clerics, to shake things up an increase support for the regime. This is his stated goal and he wants things to be like 1979, so he's an ideal candidate. Naturally he wins!

Now:

1)Iranian people are by nature patriotic. The 1979 revolution shows this. They do not take kindly to foreign interference by other nations. The clerics need a bogeyman and the west fits in nicely thanks to the support of the Shah. They also know that George W is on his big drive to rid the world of WMD (even though the US has the biggest and baddest WMD's ever created-how ironic!) so they have constructed the following standoff with the West knowing that we will take the bait.
2)Throw in a bit of "destroy Israel" rhetoric (which has been going on since 1979) and you have a threat that our media and governments can't resist!

Based on what I have just stated, my argument is this. The minute bombs start falling on Iran, people will flock to support their government and the Mullahs will be in power another 20 years guaranteed. Everything Ahmadinejad has said about the west in the past few months will be vindicate, i.e. “They are out to get us!”

Ahmadinejad is baiting the West to increase public support of the Clerics. We are the scapegoat for the failings of the clerics. The worst thing we could do is oblige him!

Besides any hit on Nuclear facilities will cause a massive release of radiation into the atmosphere. Leukemia levels will fly through the roof and thus another card will fall into the lap of the Mullahs.

Best course of action. Support pro democracy groups within Iran. Broadcast radio programs into Iran. Let internal politics in Iran run their course. The Mullahs are doomed, they know it. There are a lot of very very angry young Iranians without jobs. Don't for gods sake bomb them!


[edit on 21-4-2006 by enslaved83]

Well 54 views and no replies. I guess "don't bomb Iran threads" just don't cut it anymore! I guess I should stop being such a commie loving liberal so and so. Prehaps if I had named the title of the Thread, "Nuke Iran" then people might actually be interested. Oh wait that would be silly.

Oh no its not someone has beat me to it!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is no-one really interested in the idea of the Iranian President baiting the West? No comments to be said whatsoever?

Why do people put all there emphasis on wether a countries ballistic missiles can reach the United States?


People forget that they can:

Smuggle them into South America and assemble them which would put their missiles in range of the continental US.

They can smuggle "warheads" across our borders and detonate them without even firing them in missiles.

They can attack US forces overseas.

They may be able to get their submarine forces close enough to launch cruise missiles. There are plenty of other countries that have infiltrated US waters undetected.


I wouldn't say the range of a countries missiles determines their "threat level" to the US.

I think you hit the nail on the head, I've said the same thing. The Iranian prez sure seems to be asking for it with some of his comments.

Are there any assassins left in the world? Just curious.
What if someone took out Mr. Ahmadinejad with a bullet to the head, leaving his country and civilians unscathed or harmed? I'm not advocating death. Just throwing a possibility out there. What would happen if we took out all of one person, that's it? Problem solved? Yea or nay?

Originally posted by zerotolerance
Are there any assassins left in the world? Just curious.
What if someone took out Mr. Ahmadinejad with a bullet to the head, leaving his country and civilians unscathed or harmed? I'm not advocating death. Just throwing a possibility out there. What would happen if we took out all of one person, that's it? Problem solved? Yea or nay?

Nice idea, but sadly there are milions of other lunatics ready to take his place.

Whats' that? you don't believe me? but we are told they have a democratic voting system, so we must assume he got a LOT of votes.

Originally posted by ImplementOfWar
People forget that they can:

Smuggle them into South America and assemble them which would put their missiles in range of the continental US.

They can smuggle "warheads" across our borders and detonate them without even firing them in missiles.



I wouldn't say the range of a countries missiles determines their "threat level" to the US.

Yes maybe they can smuggle them overseas and bring them into foreign countries, but then again perhaps if our foreign policy was better we would have people watching our back instead of losing friendly allies.

Yes they can attack our forces overseas. #1 they shouldn't have been there in the first place and #2 We are placing them in harms way by even advocating and calling for attacks on a neighboring country especially since we haven't finished cleaning up the first and second mess we are in.
People here just nonchalantly calling for nuking a country or killing people because they are muslims will not put a very good light on our men and women overseas. Some people should use common sense before opening their mouths when they are sitting safely thousands of miles away behind a keyboard and putting others at risk who are easily in reach of the people being threatened. Its just as easy for them to dehumanize someone and make them a target.

Originally posted by Moley
Whats' that? you don't believe me?

Nope. I believe you.

Ok, mods.....Why isnt this thread in PTS?

I've been saying the same thing for a while.

Nothing unites a divided populace like an external threat.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Ok, mods.....Why isnt this thread in PTS?

I don't think its a political issue. Its a conpiracy. The Clerics have engineered an international crisis in order to boost their popularity.

As far as assasinations go, although a bullet would be usefull in putting Mr Ahmadinejad out of his misery I think we are missing the point. The Islamic revolution was a direct consiquence of the West meddling in Iran via forcefull means. Imperialism is a big issue for them. Like I said before I think the best thing we can do is support the Iranian pro human rights movement. The moment we start plotting coups and assasinations, the very people we need on our side will probably turn against us.

As for the issues of attacking America with missles via sub, I have this to say. My post shows that although they are beligerent, underneath the rhetoric lies the goals of survival. The Clerics would never launch against the US. They want to ensure their survival.

Originally posted by xmotex
I've been saying the same thing for a while.

Nothing unites a divided populace like an external threat.

Excellent, Im glad someone else has seen reason! Logically, I think it is the only reason why the Iranian Government come out with these statements.

Originally posted by xmotex
I've been saying the same thing for a while.

Nothing unites a divided populace like an external threat.

Isnt this exactly the same strategy the US goverment is using to get goodwill from within and without( as i know the war on terrorism is bogus, its surely is for other reasons).

How Ironic, at the same time how logical....its been done for centuries.

[Mod Edit: No need to quote the preceeding post in it's entirety]

Its a wonderfull ploy. Its for this reason I don't want TV, listen to the radio or buy papers. Everything is bogus and lacks integrity. (I get all my news off ATS and other news resources)

This Iran crisis has been manufactured by both sides.

Iran: increase power of the Clerics
US: distract from the issue of Iraq

[edit on 4/23/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by xmotex
I've been saying the same thing for a while.

Nothing unites a divided populace like an external threat.

It is my belief, that should Iran be attacked through bombing or invasion, the youth of Iran, those who have fostered opposition to the Mullahs, they will united behind their government.

Not because they love their government, but because their country is being attacked, and they love their country.

With each bombing wave that hits Iran, so a generation of youth that look favourably to the West will be lost, seeing the west as someone who bombs their country for having a nuclear programme, while other countries with nuclear programmes are allowed.

Don't think that just because Iran is predominantly muslim that they don't question their government.

Because just like you and me, they do.

But just like if your country was attacked, bombed, strafed, you may not like your government, but you would be angry at who attacked your country.

And the government would be rallied around.

Attack Iran, and 20 years of progress in relations will be gone, reversed.

Do you think that by attacking Iran, it would stop their nuclear programme?

No, it will make them even more determined in defiance.

If you really wanted to stop Iran's current regime you could undertake an off the records assisination operation to take out the main players.

But the US don't want that. It's all about securing the oil rich middle east and securing Western interests.

If Iran were so close to developing nukes then why come out now and say it at the top of your voice???

If they (Iran's Gov) really wanted to wipe Israel off the map then they would have developed them in silence and kept it to themselves until "Nuke Day".

It's all one big load of BS in my opinion.

I suppose it's also always worth asking - but it rarely seems to happen - whether he actually said exactly what he is reported as saying.

There are certainly contrary views about what his word truely were and what he meant.

There's an interesting look at this issue here -
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Sadly as I don't speak Farsi I'm stuck looking to several sources to see what might be the truth of the matter.

[edit on 22-4-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

[Mod Edit: Removed quote of entire preceeding post]

Excellent point. I have often wondered myself if things get lost in translation. I imagine the general message might be the same but in less harsh terms i.e. Israeli needs to leave the ME rather than all Jew must die. ( I know both are equally bad, but Im just using an example).

Excellent link btw

[edit on 4/23/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

Well gee whiz, nice link!
It just goes to show the level of manipulation that the bangers of the war drums use to get the populace excited!
Hmmm, where have we seen manipulations of perception before this?

When I was a kid I always heard on TV, in school, in books, about Soviet propaganda, always the Soviets, seems to me that that is propaganda at it's finest hard at work.
It's them that lie!

I know what you mean. A few years ago, I was a gun hoe right winger. I supported the Iraq war because I stupidly believed that our leaders were doing something in our best interests. I believed that there were WMD and I thought that they were telling the truth.

I believe democracy in Iraq is in our best interests, but the WMD thing was the wrong way to do it and I now believe it was just a cover for the oil Iraq has etc.

Since then I have got my self an education, so to speak. Ive stopped reading the papers and Ive stopped watching the news because Im sick of the constant manipulation and lies comming out of the White House and the British Parliament. Everyone has an agenda. (Another reason I stopped reading the broadsheets is down to a very personal, business motived attack on a member of my family, this absolutely convinced me that buying a paper is wrong) We are supposed to have an independant media in this country but its amazing..... Channel 4 produces most of the news programs for ITV and channel 5 while the BBC gets its money off the government. (Don't believe me? Remember Greg Dyke. He was made to resign over the whole Kelly issue while Blair who was wrong over WMD is still lauding it over us in power)

Getting back on track, I find it amazing that a lot of the people who were gun ho over have Iraq have forgotten just how we were led into war. Our leaders are exploiting the Iran issue while Iran unlike Sadam is also doing the same.

Another thing which dawned on me earlier. Say the US does bomb Iranian Nuclear site. It won't be followed up by a ground assault. There aren't enough troops to go around so an invasion looks unlikely and I think the clerics have realised this. Limited bombing is not going to do much in Iran but it will turn the people against the West for sure. I think people give the Iranians too little credit.

[edit on 4/23/2006 by 12m8keall2c]