UFO's or explainable phenomenon?

Now I know right away that some people are gonna blast me for this and sayy im full of # but whatever those people are dumb.

Anyway a lot of people talk about glowing moving lights in the sky that often flicker like a star. I got to thinking what could cause this type of phenomenon that could be easily recreated. There is an answer that is hundreds if not thousands of years old. Floating lanterns often in a paper or plastic bag could be made to look like UFO's quite easily for example the "fleets" in Mexico that get talked about from time to time could easily be hoaxed with tiny lanterns fueled by nothing more then a fuel soaked rag or a candle of some type. It could even fool thermal imaging due to the heat generated by the flame filling the lantern.

This pic here is a perfect example of lanterns or even weather balloons at work all the tell tale signs of a hoax is no apparent pattern and even then im sure lanterns could be tied together to form a pattern.
www.ufo.com.br...

I truly beleive that 98% of UFO's seen are explainable and have probably been explained.

My God, Doctor, what are you, some sort of government hack sent here to expunge all of us lost souls of alien and ufo demons? If you don't buy into the UFO/ET thing, then why are you here? You make me want to puke you silly man! You ain't no doctor, that's for sure. HA!

Originally posted by highhorse313
My God, Doctor, what are you, some sort of government hack sent here to expunge all of us lost souls of alien and ufo demons? If you don't buy into the UFO/ET thing, then why are you here? You make me want to puke you silly man! You ain't no doctor, that's for sure. HA!

Easy, easy...all opinions and theories are welcome here at ATS.

[edit on 19-4-2006 by kinglizard]

No what i like to do is try to rule out all possibility of hoax or other phenomenon before i say it's a lil green man. Call me silly all you want but it is quite logical when you think about it what would really be funnier then to watch 20 lanterns you launched on the 6:00 news with people claiming all sorts of weird crap. Some UFO evidence is quite compelling however that kind of evidence is rare.

Lanterns being lit and released into the night sky.
images2.sina.com...

And as for your comments regarding me and my intellegence take a look in the mirror. Those kinds of comments show a lack of rationality and facts from the "beleiver" side.

To be honest i expected more a lot of people seem to be quite smart here. So when your ready for a real debate then post. until then you should'nt waste the forums bandwidth.

greetings
The universe is a big place .
whos to say these phenomenon are not aliens? as far as we know they have more power and technology then we could ever imagine. maybie they even have things that humanity sais are immpossible ? allthough i believe they exist .
If we had the power to go and study other life forms in space i am one hundred percent certain that we would do so , so whose to say that rhe aliens wouldnt want to do the same thing??
Just a thought

Omega85

This is indeed true and for the universe not to be full of life would be well a waste of space. But you have to take into consideration what their technology is at medically if they are 4 to 500 years ahead of us. It would not take them long to figure us out then move on.

UFO evidence well a vast majority of it could be explained that's the problem. Now know one knows how an advance alien species would think but if they are anything like us then they would realize that intervention and contact with a primative species could damage them in many ways. Also one must take into consideration how big the universe really is and how hard it would be to find earth out of the almost infinate amount of stars and worlds our universe contains.

true we dont know how they think or how advanced there techonology is .
I wish i could interview one that would be awsome .
i dont know though there are new things about everyday so maybie thats why they keep coming back who knows?

I think, officially, at least 2/3, and in fact, many more of observed UFOs have a simple explanation. Venus is an example.

But what I have also noticed is that there is a tendancy for people to apply such concepts where they do not make sense. For example, Jimmy Carter saw a light that 'took off'. Venus does not 'take off'. Yet people continue to suggest that he saw Venus.

The problem is not with skepticism. The problem is with the psychologically satisfying form of denial that is often passed as skepticism. So long as you make the disctinction clear, you will be an excellent phenomena scientist.

I guess there are several things that bother me about the water lantern possibility. First, it requires an unobstructed view of water. Second, it requires the objects to all be on the same plane in the horizontal.

If you are intent on looking into your hypotheses further, I would see if there are examples of the light formations where the objects are not on the same plane in the horizontal. If this is the case, the 'lanterns' would be of significantly varying height even at a distance, which would make some of them infeasibly tall.

I don't know whether formations with height variation exist. I merely pose this to you as a way to quickly test your hypothesis.

You can have spherical lanterns i have seen hug lanterns before like huge ones but if ther are several like we will say at night for example they are quite bright and visable. It would also be possible to have them rigged with strings somehow so that 3 or more lanterns could all float at about the same height and distance from eachother. I beleive these so called mexican UFO fleets are an example of the lanterns or some type of balloons.

Most UFOs reported , are reported to make extreme maneuvers. Lanterns would not do anything except float with the wind.

So I would say that no most UFOs reported are not or can not be explained as Lanterns or Balloons.

I truly beleive that 98% of UFO's seen are explainable and have probably been explained.

You should check the USAF Project Blue Book. They failed to explain 20% of the sightings in the files.

The Condon Report that effectively ended Blue Book failed to explain 30% of the cases it studied.

"They failed to explain 20% of the sightings in the files."

Just because they could not explain it based on eyewitness accounts does not mean that it is not unexplainable.

Eyewitness accounts i would consider to be not a reliable form of evidence because they are even more easily fabricated then video and photographic evidence.

now let's say 80% explainable 20% unexplainable and out of that 20% let's say a few of those truth. How can we know these crafts are from out of this world. We can't but before you can say this about something you have to be 100% sure.

now let's say 80% explainable 20% unexplainable and out of that 20% let's say a few of those truth. How can we know these crafts are from out of this world. We can't but before you can say this about something you have to be 100% sure.

Err well if say only 1% were truly a craft then it's a UFO. Even if it is military made and from this planet it is a UFO to the average person as we don't know what it is.

I agree that eye witness accounts don't usually say much, but when they are from pilots and the like they have credit to them. When they are spotted by a trained observer like a military pilot, backed up by radar and then photographed, well these are proof enough for me that something weird is flying around in our skys.

Originally posted by The_Doctor

Just because they could not explain it based on eyewitness accounts does not mean that it is not unexplainable.

Eyewitness accounts i would consider to be not a reliable form of evidence because they are even more easily fabricated then video and photographic evidence.

Blue Book often had Video , Photo's and RADAR evidence along with Reliable eye-witness'.

Originally posted by The_Doctor

now let's say 80% explainable 20% unexplainable and out of that 20% let's say a few of those truth. How can we know these crafts are from out of this world. We can't but before you can say this about something you have to be 100% sure.

What I'm saying is that you can't simply dismiss the UFO phenomena.

Very few "UFO" are anything other than "explainable" or perhaps not well understood phenomenon. OK. 98% are explainable phenomenon like this right? Then prove to me precisely what these things are - no guessing allowed. Explain. Where's your Identified Flying Object then - not where you can do anything other than speculate? Hmmm. Yup, still a UFO event to me.

That these very interesting objects are of extraterrestrial origin? Perhaps, perhaps not. Can't prove that either way either without "a dead one" to poke with a stick and perhaps analyze/reverse engineer and understand the "what" of it as oppossed to the "who" of it.

That there are UFO events of ET origins and design - there can be little question for many, including myself. Proof - not a lick, iota or scintilla. Anecdotal, photographic and video evidence - tons. No, megatons.
I've seen an "Orange Sphere with a-notch-out-of-the-top" shaped UFO with my family. Most disturbing, I assure you. Was it ET? Maybe, maybe not, like this recent amazing "flap" it remains a UFO event.

Real proof is difficult and it should be difficult to prove something of this magnitude either way if one is serious about it. If it were easy, or if there weren't some doubt on all sides would so many bright people show a concerted interest in a forum like Above Top Secret? Wouldn't the "sayers-nay" have better things to do than "prove" (LOL) the "sayers-yeah" are mistaken and ill-informed and vice-versa? Think about it. Should we not all be here for the same thing? I call it truth. Some folks have other ideas and motives and are welcome to them. The rhetoric is laughable and does all a dis-service of pathology.

That there would be a concerted effort to suppress and devalue evidence should not be a surprise; evidence of contact and all that event portends is one of the few things that could really upset humanity and all that it has meant to this point - order.

Our mammoths of power upon consultation might declare such information Above Top Secret in the knowledge that curious folks like us would naturally find our proof for ourselves a bit at a time as individuals thereby cushioning the culture-shock across generations until it becomes accepted by the larger, less inquisitive body-politic as generally held truth. In there shoes I may have made the same choices.

How do you eat an elephant? - one bite at a time.

Thanx for the links and thought stroll,

Victor K.

Again i never rule out the possibility but the likelyhood and that likelyhood unfortunatly does not support ET visiting Earth from a scientific standpoint.

Even if they did want to study us I'm sure with that kind of technology they could easily do that at a distance with some kind of scanners or something.
Out of all the supposed evidence very little is convincing and even then the ones that appear genuine do not show aliens and so fourth. Again i reference mexican fleets as being a complete sham they fly in no specific patterns no crazy manuevers etc. these in my opinion are explainable by either lanterns or balloons.

Originally posted by The_Doctor
Again i never rule out the possibility but the likelyhood and that likelyhood unfortunatly does not support ET visiting Earth from a scientific standpoint.

Which standpoint is that? They could easily visit us if they could create a wormhole, this is now being looked at seriously by us. What is they are coming from a different dimention? What if they have simply travelled at incredible speed while in stasis of some kind?

I don't know if ET has visited us and i can't find evidence to prove it, but i have looked at the arguements and i cannot discount the possibility. It is scientifically possible and likely. Afterall what is the first thing we would do with technology to travel to other planets? What if we found an inhabited planet, would we not go straight there?

Out of all the supposed evidence very little is convincing and even then the ones that appear genuine do not show aliens and so fourth. Again i reference mexican fleets as being a complete sham they fly in no specific patterns no crazy manuevers etc. these in my opinion are explainable by either lanterns or balloons.

You started this thread saying UFO's were explainable, now you are moving to ET to try and prove your point. Everyone here has said the lantern arguement doesn't stand up for many UFO's. Leave the lanterns alone, we all know they can be used but let's concentrate on the 1 or 2% that have been tracked on radar and viewed by trained observers. Not simple lights, structured craft.

Even if they did want to study us I'm sure with that kind of technology they could easily do that at a distance with some kind of scanners or something.

Ok now this is just getting silly. I would speculate that long range scans couldn't pin point a human and examine their body. Maybe i am wrong but it seems beyond unlikely, look at our MRI machines. It would be better to get up close to run scans.

[edit on 20-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

"Which standpoint is that? They could easily visit us if they could create a wormhole, this is now being looked at seriously by us. What is they are coming from a different dimention? What if they have simply travelled at incredible speed while in stasis of some kind?

I don't know if ET has visited us and i can't find evidence to prove it, but i have looked at the arguements and i cannot discount the possibility. It is scientifically possible and likely. Afterall what is the first thing we would do with technology to travel to other planets? What if we found an inhabited planet, would we not go straight there?"

First off wormholes are only theory no one has ever observed or created one ever. Secondly another dimension is not possible alternate universes yes dimensions no. There are 4 dimensions 3 physical and one space time dimension.

As for aliens visiting us why would they we are a lesser life form. Let's say the galaxy is 100 trillion stars well then it is a 1 in a 100 trillion shot at finding Earth. Also who's to say they are anything like us they may not be interested in humanity.

"Ok now this is just getting silly. I would speculate that long range scans couldn't pin point a human and examine their body. Maybe i am wrong but it seems beyond unlikely, look at our MRI machines. It would be better to get up close to run scans."

Nasa developed a tricorder type device that could analyze the chemical properties of almost anything at a distance. Also basic forms of a "tricorder" have been developed as well. Now imagine what these technologies will be like in a thousand years.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Which standpoint is that? They could easily visit us if they could create a wormhole, this is now being looked at seriously by us. What is they are coming from a different dimention? What if they have simply travelled at incredible speed while in stasis of some kind?

I don't know if ET has visited us and i can't find evidence to prove it, but i have looked at the arguements and i cannot discount the possibility. It is scientifically possible and likely. Afterall what is the first thing we would do with technology to travel to other planets? What if we found an inhabited planet, would we not go straight there?"

Originally posted by The_Doctor
First off wormholes are only theory no one has ever observed or created one ever. Secondly another dimension is not possible alternate universes yes dimensions no. There are 4 dimensions 3 physical and one space time dimension.

My apologies i used the wrong word on the whole dimension thing. Yes wormholes are a theory i never said anything otherwise. I said they are being looked at seriously. If another race is so much further in front of us then it is perfectly possible they have created such a thing.

Oh and what do you think of string theory then? There are supposed to be 10 or 11 dimensions in that.

Originally posted by The_Doctor
As for aliens visiting us why would they we are a lesser life form. Let's say the galaxy is 100 trillion stars well then it is a 1 in a 100 trillion shot at finding Earth. Also who's to say they are anything like us they may not be interested in humanity.

Well this is speculation vs speculation. You said about there tech being great, well maybe they have a way of finding inhabited planets more easily than us.

They may not be like us but if they are a species that has created space travel capable of travelling between stars and planets then the must be interested in a scientific method. This would have required looking at lower life forms. We look at ants for that reason.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Ok now this is just getting silly. I would speculate that long range scans couldn't pin point a human and examine their body. Maybe i am wrong but it seems beyond unlikely, look at our MRI machines. It would be better to get up close to run scans.

Originally posted by The_Doctor
Nasa developed a tricorder type device that could analyze the chemical properties of almost anything at a distance. Also basic forms of a "tricorder" have been developed as well. Now imagine what these technologies will be like in a thousand years.

That's kind of different to examing DNA at a distance. Yes these technologies will get better and better but i still doubt you could examine everything from a distance. Knowing the chemical composition of something does not mean you understand how it works.


[edit on 20-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

No matter what anyone speculates about what would the E.T.'s do?

The facts still are that the UFO Phenomena is still happening here on Earth and has been for several hundred years at least.

Sting theory is interesting but it only can explain so much string exist outside of our perception we cannot observe them we only think they are there. Sting theory has yet to be prooven until that happens it will remain a mystery.

Everything will be able to be examined at a distance including eventually DNA etc. As i have said in the past would an ET species have not already aquired the knowledge of the human body.

"he facts still are that the UFO Phenomena is still happening here on Earth and has been for several hundred years at least."

I am sorry but please do not claim facts from vague resources you cannot proove this.