Britons turning to the extreme right in large numbers

Originally posted by squarepusher
What does "baa baa black sheep" have to do with this!? Absolutely nothing. Crying Political Correctness is a cop-out.

There are example of government waste and benefit scams across the board, it is not just a problem with immigration/asylum. Just look at that Lizzie Bardsley, her family were making in excess of 30,000 pounds a year from benefits, and they are not immigrants! Is that ok with you guys? Because there are thousands of people doing that, and none of them are immigrants.

what does it have to do with this

well its this type of thing that is getting under the skin these english people that are supporting the bnp, and how do i know this, well ive lost count of the times ive heard this on the train/bus when overhearing convosations between people, i also have a friend who runs a coach company and heard the same type of thing on a day trip to the lake district between passengers.

Crying Political Correctness is a cop-out is it ?? you my freind are another person with his head in the sand.

I live in central Bradford (BD2), and I have no knowledge of this fence around a community here somewhere.

Anyway, my friend's family own a garage and they mentioned a year or so back about some immigrants buying one of their cars with government hand-outs. Something to do with assisting them in finding work or something. So I would not discount any of these claims above. You can get all sorts of benefits in the UK, why would it surprise you that people get whatever they can?

I don't personally care who I vote for, they are all as bad as one another. I will say though, that since moving to bradford I am becoming more and more racist by the day. I used to be neutral to people, judging them by their personalities, but now I simply group them together. Why? I never used to be like this when I lived in Birmingham.

Originally posted by u4ria

Originally posted by squarepusher
What does "baa baa black sheep" have to do with this!? Absolutely nothing. Crying Political Correctness is a cop-out.

There are example of government waste and benefit scams across the board, it is not just a problem with immigration/asylum. Just look at that Lizzie Bardsley, her family were making in excess of 30,000 pounds a year from benefits, and they are not immigrants! Is that ok with you guys? Because there are thousands of people doing that, and none of them are immigrants.

what does it have to do with this

well its this type of thing that is getting under the skin these english people that are supporting the bnp, and how do i know this, well ive lost count of the times ive heard this on the train/bus when overhearing convosations between people, i also have a friend who runs a coach company and heard the same type of thing on a day trip to the lake district between passengers.

Crying Political Correctness is a cop-out is it ?? you my freind are another person with his head in the sand.

So your saying people are going to vote for the BNP because a couple of nurserys changed the words to "baa baa black sheep"? You do realise "baa baa black sheep" is still used right. It created a big fuss because it fit the PC criteria, it was never a national wide thing.

Political correctness can mean anything, its said when you dont really have a point. Seeing as we're meant to be discussing the BNP, not nursery rhymes or "conversations you've over-heard from people on the bus"

I live in the middle of the country, no sand for miles.

So your saying people are going to vote for the BNP because a couple of nurserys changed the words to "baa baa black sheep"? You do realise "baa baa black sheep" is still used right. It created a big fuss because it fit the PC criteria, it was never a national wide thing.

Political correctness can mean anything, its said when you dont really have a point. Seeing as we're meant to be discussing the BNP, not nursery rhymes or "conversations you've over-heard from people on the bus"

I live in the middle of the country, no sand for miles.

no what i said is this is the type of thing thats making them vote for the BNP so yes it does have something to do with this with this thread.

I live in the middle of the country, no sand for miles. so you travel all that way to bury your head in the sand ?

and hearing these type of things on the bus/train is from people from all walks of life, not just 1 the type of people some people would expect it from.

[edit on 18-4-2006 by u4ria]

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[edit on 18-4-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Well it proves my point then, the BNP (even UKIP) use stories such as "baa baa black sheep" to stir people's emotions. The rhyme is still used throughout the UK, to argue that it's a reason for voting for the BNP, or that its PC is irrelevant.

Half of the stories that come out about "PC gone mad" are inaccurate, to use them in campaigning is immoral, unjust, and ignorant.

where did i say that the BNP UKIP are using it in there campains, i used it to show that PC group are not helping things with the type of things they deem racist to ethnic minorites but if u cant see that this type of thing isnt helping well thats up to you as for it being immoral, unjust and ignorant the same could be said about all political parties across the world because they all use issues to help keep them in power.

and alot of the things the PC come up with are have not even been disscused with people from ethnic minorites before hand which cuts them out of the loop, so where as racism doesnt help to help them fit in with the rest of the UK population neither does the PC group by involving and giving them there say in issues that are suppose to be for the benafit.

[edit on 18-4-2006 by u4ria]

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[edit on 18-4-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

I agree and have said earlier in this thread about all parties having slick PR to get votes. And as I said, the only reason the BNP will gain more votes this time round is because they're improving their delivery (i.e dumbing down on the "whites only" thing, and concentrating on immigrants and the problems with multi-culturalism)

But this is the difference, the BNP are racists. They campaign solely on immigration, but their core vote wants anyone who isnt white, out of the country. They use PC stories such as the sheep rhyme to stir up anger over this issue. Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dems, Green party, even UKIP, none of them want every non-white person out of the country.

Stopping immigration would pretty much cripple any country, no sane, logical political party would advocate it, it would do more damage. And as for kicking out everyone who isnt white ( I believe they call it "voluntary expatriation" or something like that). What is there to say? It's racist.

Originally posted by CarlosG
I will say though, that since moving to bradford I am becoming more and more racist by the day. I used to be neutral to people, judging them by their personalities, but now I simply group them together. Why? I never used to be like this when I lived in Birmingham.

As someone who also lives in Bradford I agree Carlos that the situation here is possibly unique in the country. I saw a Newsnight feature tonight about asylum seekers living in Rotherham. It was particularly interesting to listen to the views of the Asian 'immigrants' or rather the 2nd, 3rd and sometimes 4th generation of the original immigrants. They seemed to have settled and assimmilated very well indeed.

Bradford on the other hand seems to have a large number of 'radical' Asians who border on considering whites as 'the enemy'. It's really wierd. My profession involves me dealing with and talking to people from all ethnic backgrounds and it was interesting that one Asian bloke was slagging off Bradford as being a 'throwback'. He said that Pakistan has 'moved on' from the attitudes he sees in Bradford and that the local Pakistani community seem to be determined to hang on to the attitudes that were once prevalent in Pakistan 50 years ago but are no longer mainstream......

Personally I couldn't give two short sh**s if the Pakistani community wanted to enact their culture as it was 2000 years ago, as long as it doesn't get in the way of my life......

Originally posted by u4ria
and alot of the things the PC come up with are have not even been disscused with people from ethnic minorites before hand which cuts them out of the loop, so where as racism doesnt help to help them fit in with the rest of the UK population neither does the PC group by involving and giving them there say in issues that are suppose to be for the benafit.
[edit on 18-4-2006 by u4ria]

I completely agree with you there, 99% of the time these Politically Correct policies start with an idea from one person, not usually in the government either. The Rainbow Sheep came from a nursery who explained that they wanted to "change the words around, develop the children's vocabulary".. sounds dodgy, lol but that was their reason.

The Christmas lights, So a Shopping Centre or local council decides it might be better to call them something different, it could just be one persons idea which a journalist got hold of and turned it into a PC Gone Mad story.

It's a case of some people trying too hard, and others not wanting anything to change isnt it. The truth is as you say we normal people are never asked about it, nor do we really care.

And thats what annoys me about the BNP, they play on these stories, they're a bunch of racists hijacking a popular subject to further their agenda. They dont give a crap about anything but getting all the non-whites out of the country. And using fear, to get votes, well that just says it all doesnt it, they're not a serious political party.

i agree with most of what you have just posted there, if u think im on side with the BNP let me say im NOT, to some people the speil they spout sounds tempting but at the end of the day once they got into power things would change for the worst, my reason for posting in this thread was because some people just totaly blanked out and called people idiots/lie'rs about some of the hand outs they get, personaly i belive they are entitled to a hand out to get them on there feet once arriving in this country IF they have entered legaly but some of the hand outs they do get are totaly insane, i.e the goverment grant for a car and free insurance and road tax WOW.

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[edit on 18-4-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by u4ria
the goverment grant for a car and free insurance and road tax

- There is no such grant. It's urban myth time.

Same as with the young girl I know, she didn't get a 'hair extensions grant'.

She did qualify for a grant for other things and chose to spend the money on hair extensions.

They don't necessarily 'stand over you' (although they can pay direct to a supplier if they decide to) and force you to spend the money on what you've claimed it for (so other people choosing to spend a similar grant intended for some furnishings on a cheap motor could do so but it would not actually be a grant for a car, tax or insurance).

As for Bradford?
Well I happen to have family living near Bradford.
What is happening up there is simple.
Young Asian lads are occasionally fighting back for a change and the racists are trying to capitalise on that.
They much preferred it of course when young Asian lads just ran away or took a severe kicking but it isn't like that nowadays.
To some degree the racists like it that way too cos they then get to claim all sorts of rubbish about an enormous 'Asian racism' problem (as there have been cases of innocent and uninvolved 'white' kids being beaten up by Asian lads).

But anyone who cares to look at the figures can see who suffers the vast bulk of the racist trouble in Britain today and it isn't the 'whites'.

People like the BNP are nothing but an appeal to our worst instincts and a pointless trouble, they are more akin to a perverted and revolting pestilence our society unfortunately seems to have to suffer from time to time.

But nevertheless, 'we' have been there done that and for all their puffed up attempts to appear about to 'break through' it was actually much worse and far more serious a matter in the past.

Fundamentally they are ridiculous and laughable.......and not actually going anywhere in 'the British body politic'.
They have absolutely nothing worthwhile or positive to offer anyone.

Sorry Smikey but we condemn racist abuse as we see it regardless of the ethnicity of the perps. My information of the problems in Bradford from both friends in the area and the media is that there is a problem with racialy motivated crime and excusing one while justifying the other is just the thing to sway previously neutral people towards a more hardline veiw.

There are some real **ss holes in all communities so lets start being able to have some honest and balanced debates on race, immigration etc and get rid of the double standards that exist. This is the reason that many people are feeling disinfranchised, whether it be some white anti social chav thug terrorising the community, a wannabe yardie packing a gun and demanding respect or some Pakistani extremist muslim wanting asian only areas, there motivations and intentions are all equally ugly and beyond the pale and make decent people feel unsafe and uncomfortable, we should not be inhibiting a citizens rights to speak about those concerns by lumping them in with some archetypal BNP thug, otherwise we'll just see more people turning to extremists politics.

Originally posted by squarepusher
I have to say, I think the title of the thread is rather misleading. The article's point is as has been noted that a report claims that 25% of the population will maybe vote for the BNP, because of they are dissillusioned with Labour.

Saying "Britons are turning to the extreme right" implies that our political persuasion has changed, whereas the article implies the voting for BNP is more of a protest vote.

I would say that 25% of the UK electorate voting for one party was a large vote, that means that millions will have made the BNP their party of choice, even if only pro tem.

As I have already said in this thread, a 'protest vote' is still a vote. It is no less valid for being that.

By the way squarepusher, should the BNP reach that proportion of the poll, who is going to witness you eating your keyboard? MODS, a volunteer please (just in case).

as you claim sminkeyminkey u know people who do or have worked for the dwp. ask them about travel allowance and if asylum seekers can claim for cars when they report that they are looking for work but are too scared to catch the bus due to abuse from other people. i would look into the background workings of the dwp before blasting other people down. and as for housing this just gets me mad, i have a 3mnth old child and we live in a 1 bed flat they have just built some new houses just around the corner, already 3 asylum seeking families have moved in and i can't even get moved to a 2 bed flat on the council, whats going on here?

Originally posted by theukman
ask them about travel allowance and if asylum seekers can claim for cars when they report that they are looking for work but are too scared to catch the bus due to abuse from other people.

- A 'travel allowance' is for fares, maybe even stretching (in the exceptional circumstances you described) to a taxi fare (although a friend in the DWP said he once heard of someone getting a loan for an airfare from London to Scotland for a funeral on a cheapo ticket which was less than the train).

But the fact remains, there is no such 'benefit' as a car allowance, or a 'car insurance allowance or a road tax allowance.

i would look into the background workings of the dwp before blasting other people down.

- I'm not "blasting anyone down".

I'm simply telling the truth, there is no such grant or allowance for a car, car insurance or road tax and anyone who says otherwise is invited to back that up with a reference to the part of the law used to give one under.

As I said with the hair extensions example, a person could be given a grant for something else (in the case I know of it was a paltry £350 to funish a completely bare house) and go and buy a cheap banger, I suppose but it certainly would not have been paid out for that specific purpose.

The one exception in all of this would be a motobility grant intended for the severely disabled.
They can get help towards a car (but that does not amount to the full price being paid for them) but that scheme was so abused it has been heavily curtailed.

and as for housing this just gets me mad, i have a 3mnth old child and we live in a 1 bed flat they have just built some new houses just around the corner, already 3 asylum seeking families have moved in and i can't even get moved to a 2 bed flat on the council, whats going on here?

- What's going on is a stretched system trying to allocate according to need, sometimes it gets it right quickly and sometimes wrong slowly.
The real problem is a thread-bare lack of social housing provision, blaming immigrants (or the current favourite code for 'pretending we're not racists' - 'illegal immigrants' or 'asylum seekers') is just scapegoating.

It might be easy to knock what appears to be 'them' getting new housing (how many of them to a 'new house) but it isn't typical and I would be willing to bet you wouldn't swap lives with them even if you could.

The truth is that asylum seekers and new immigrants get poor quality housing typically; as has always been the way.
A few exceptions do not alter that.

The benefits system in the UK is not especially generous and claims that 'they' are getting things most people aren't is just myth and propaganda calculated to inflame on the basis of most being ignorant of the facts.
Exceptions do not prove they all are handed the 'life of Reilly'.

Here's the full listings -
Link

- ......and not a special 'immigrant' rate amongst them.

[Mod Edit: Link Format - Jak]

[edit on 19/4/06 by JAK]

Originally posted by ubermunche
Sorry Smikey but we condemn racist abuse as we see it regardless of the ethnicity of the perps. My information of the problems in Bradford from both friends in the area and the media is that there is a problem with racialy motivated crime and excusing one while justifying the other is just the thing to sway previously neutral people towards a more hardline veiw.

- I haven't "excused" anyone.

I simply stated what has been going on.

I said that some Asians have been fighting back, which is true.
I also acknowledged that there have been attacks on innocent and uninvolved 'whites', which is also true.

I'm not suggesting anyone deny the truth of what is going on either.

I am simply stating the truth that if people want to condemn all around them that is fine but it is a distortion to fail to recognize that those on the receiving end of the overwhelming majority of racist abuse, threats and attacks are not 'the whites' - and they never have been.

It is not something 'even' just because some idiot Asian lads are now responding to the racists' provocation.
Not by a long chalk.



[edit on 19-4-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

theukman
i have a 3mnth old child and we live in a 1 bed flat they have just built some new houses just around the corner, already 3 asylum seeking families have moved in and i can't even get moved to a 2 bed flat on the council, whats going on here?

i wondered if they did get preferential treatment and did a little searching and it seems asylum seekers dont have to join the list of other people waiting on housing scheme lists, but are housed by the the home office a department called National asylum seeker service

Link

So when houses become open for rent whos to say the home office ride rough shot over everybody on the housing schemes and stake there claim first.

sminkeypinkey
What's going on is a stretched system trying to allocate according to need, sometimes it gets it right quickly and sometimes wrong slowly.

so if it is streched the best thing to do would be to suspend the asylum untill they have cleared the backlog of people in need of housing.





[edit on 19-4-2006 by u4ria]

[edit on 19-4-2006 by u4ria]

If the British (meaning the white indiginous population) were so inherently racist the BNP would not be gaining ground peicemeal but would always be featuring prominently in the UK's political picture. The fact is they only make these leaps in areas where local authorities follow similar policies on housing and benefits and where the local population feel overlooked and undervalued and with the sense that mainstream parties simply discount them.
Whereas I can't blame someone for taking what is offered to them I equally can't blame a certain streak of self interest, as opposed to racism, surfacing in those who suffer by comparison. I might not want to swap places with an illegal immigrant but neither do I wish to swap places with a family stuck in temporary accomodation seeing every vacant property going to those who've just arrived in the country. By dismissing those who voice an objection as siimply card carrying racist thugs is an oversimplification and as a country we do so at our peril.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

It is not something 'even' just because some idiot Asian lads are now responding to the racists' provocation.
Not by a long chalk.

This is not my experience of life in Bradford. The situation is far more complex than some 'idiot Asian lads' responding to provocation. The Bradford area is all but completely segregated into ethnic enclaves. It is quite wrong (in the case of Bradford at least) to view the issue as an embattled Asian community being occasionally provoked into responding.

There is a particular problem between the black and Asian communities as well as between various Asian communities such as Indian, Bangladeshi and Pakistani.

A very complex picture indeed and one in which the white community are by no means the only producers of bigoted, ignorant thugs.

Originally posted by Knights
He said Islam was an evil religion to a reporter (behind CLOSED doors).

- ......oooooooh "CLOSED doors" eh?
I think you'll find most criminal conspiracies happen behind 'CLOSED doors', that is no defence and does not excuse the activity.

Actually I was referring to that other cretin on trial with 'wonky eye', their (don't laugh too hard) supposed 'rising star' Mark Collett who told in a Channel 4 undercover program (Channel 4 documentary "Young, Nazi and Proud") told their reporter the usual 'Holocaust denial' crap to start with and moved on to later gloat and excuse the mass-murder.

You can try and spin this anyway you like but there's no 'soft-soaping' that shower.......every so often they just can't help revealing their own childishly retarded and pitiably evil 'politics'.

They aren't fooling anyone - except those that choose to be fooled or those who welcome that kind of poison.