Magestic 12

What's everyone's opinion on this group? I've read through many of the documents I just can't decide whether it is real or not. I know there is a lot of controversy over the subject as well, and the opposition has made some pretty good observations.

It has to be real. Look at all the documents. Do you think our lazyass government would go through all that trouble to fake something that big?

If any of it is real, which I'm not even sure of, I suggest only the originally released documents had any validity to them.

IMO, the U.S. government knew full well what was going on even earlier than 1947, likely at least around 1939 if not soon after the invention of airplanes. The advent of the CIA shortly after the events of Roswell in 1947 was to simply make sure such a slip-up doesn't happen again. I'm not sure when Majestic 12 was formed, but if it was 1947, its likely false info. Any real secret organization dealing with this subject was likely at least a decade older than that.

[Edited on 14-10-2003 by heelstone]

IMO, based on other information I have gotten from military sources, Majestic 12 is a fake.

Evidence abounds that the MHD electrogravitic technology has existed at least since 1923, and there has been an active USAF project to develope it into a working aircraft (Project Winterhaven) since 1952.

It is my understanding that MJ12 and Roswell were very large scale, well thought out "Plants" to conceal the currently deployed US X Craft fleet that is operational in both northern and southern lattitudes and on the lunar base.

To be honest, I agree complete with you dragonrider. I wouldn't be suprised if aliens never have visited earth, and all the sightings were just a coverup for government projects. I myself have seen a UFO very close up, which is why I'm so interested them. I'd love to know what I saw that night.

I think project bluebook was real but after that (when in my opion they found that UFO's are real, and mabye made contact) it is all misinformation and cover ups.

I would love to put this issue to rest once and for all. The resolution. Everyone get ready to open some extra windows and do some searching. I'll start.

I find the members of the MJ12 group to be the exact members that would have been chosen due to experience and "power" in the right place.
I just looked up Dr Vannaver Bush. He is a remarkable man who would appear to be someone deeply affected by an awakening...
I do think he was involved with high level research since 1939. Look at the connections... ATT, MERCK
Here is a paraphrased section of timeline:
find original here www.cs.brown.edu...

1945 Dr. Bush submits "Science, the Endless Frontier" to Roosevelt per request. It was this proposal which set off events leading to the development of the National Science Foundation.

1945 Dr. Bush proposes the Memex in his quintessential article, "As We May Think".

1946 July, Dr. Bush appointed Chairman of the JointResearch and Development Board of the War and Navy Departments.

1947 September-Appointed Chariman of the development Board of 1948 October 15 the National Military Establishment.

1947 Appointed as a director of AT&T

1948 Appointed as a director of Merck and Co.

1950 Establishment of the National Science Foundation under the direction of Dr. Bush

1953 - 1955 Dr. Bush maintains membership on the
National Science Foundation Advisory
Committee.

1957 - 1959 Chairman of the MIT Corporation.


1959 - 1971 Honorary Chairman of the MIT Corporation.
_______________________
after reading about the project, many scholors agree it is a real document produced for actual use or intentional dis-information by the "powers that be" fnord.

I doubt they would have put this much thought into a hoax campaign when a simple weather balloon sighting would do.

think of the political climate at the time. The Gov was generally trusted by most Americans... we had just kicked some war@$$ and morale was high... They could have told us anything and been believed...
so why send it 30-40 years later to a tv show producer. The time lines fit for DR V Bush...

someone else do some research on one of the other members...
tag... you're it...

Doesn't that one Wilbert Smith document point to Vannaver Bush as heading up a secret UFO organization? If MJ-12 is real, then the only evidence pointing to its vaiidity is that Wilbert Smith document. However, it doesn't specifically mention Majestic 12, so I am still suspect over it.

[Edited on 14-10-2003 by heelstone]

/read/

you have to look at connections... sorry, but if the evidence is in plain site then it would be "the majestic documents"
think about the connections of ATT =the Sandia labs one of the supposed benefactors of Alien technology...at the same time that Dr Bush would be looking for ways to utilize the science for the benifit of mankind...(that was one of his speciatlys that made him so unique doe a possible job).
If alien did crash...if he did work on it...he would have done just what happened... go to work for a gov connected firm where he could oversee the security of the project and the implemetation...

BTW.. what is the william smith document?

The Wilbert Smith memo, which is basically just famous for its validity regarding the subject of UFOs can be found here:

209.132.68.98...

The smoking gun text, regarding the reality of UFOs, and possibly Majestic 12 or some other organization is:

a. The matter is the most highly classified subject in the United States
Government, rating higher even than the H-bomb.

b. Flying saucers exist.

c. Their modus operandi is unknown but concentrated effort is being made by a small group headed by Doctor Vannevar Bush.

d. The entire matter is considered by the United States authorities to be of tremendous significance.

However, unlike claimed, it was NOT obtained through the U.S. FOIA. It was taken from Canadian archives, but that does nothing to remove its validity.

[Edited on 14-10-2003 by heelstone]

I personally believe that the MJ-12 docs are genuine. Stanton Friedman, who I consider the best researcher in the field, and several others did extensive studies on the documents and concluded that they were genuine. What can I say? I trust Stan...

Also, I think that the idea that UFOs are all US X-craft is pretty ridiculous, but who knows? Even though all the evidence points to a non-terrestrial explanation, there might be someway that it's all been fabricated to coverup fancy planes. Of course, it's also possible I'll grow wings out of my head and fly to Tokyo. Not likely, but possible.

Originally posted by Flinx
Also, I think that the idea that UFOs are all US X-craft is pretty ridiculous, but who knows? Even though all the evidence points to a non-terrestrial explanation, there might be someway that it's all been fabricated to coverup fancy planes. Of course, it's also possible I'll grow wings out of my head and fly to Tokyo. Not likely, but possible.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The only reason I can come up with that people dont believe that the US is using MHD technology is because they so fervently WANT to believe in UFOS.

When you do some research on it, you find that Nikola Tesla already had the theory worked out as early as 1889 for Magneto HydroDynamic propulsion, and Thomas Townsend Brown physically proved the principle (the Brown/Biefield effect) in 1923.

I'm not going to go into details regarding extraterrestrial visitation other than to point out the oddity of keeping what would otherwise be very mundane earthly technology a very unkept secret with public interest kept using a captivating myth. To suggest the idea that human technology would be flown around for over 60 years in broad daylight (some of them very massive) to be photographed and witnessed and then not be talked about is just as nutty as saying UFOs are extraterrestrial in origin. Perhaps moreso. This is without even considering the historical accounts of flying shields and other anomalous activity throughout written history.


[Edited on 14-10-2003 by heelstone]

I would say the likeliest reason for the secrecy goes far beyond just the technology:

Keep in mind, we have a FAR more advanced space program than what the public is aware of. And it is not just a US operation, but a joint operation with Russia.

There are hints of some kind of external threat, apparently that cost the lives of a multinational crew to Mars in 1986, and led to the high speed development of HAARP, apparently as an offensive weapons system.

I would postulate the possibility of a deeper Cabal/Illuminati connection in it all... Consider, if the population had a hint that this technology existed, and were operating a multinational moon base, questions would be asked regarding why it was all being kept secret for decade. Questions would be asked why we were cooperating with our cold war foes. Questions might be asked that would unravel the camoflage that we see everyday, that the entire global socio economic and geopolitical makeup was complete BS.

Just a thought.

Dr,
Are you hinting at an Et threat that has led to all of this?
Deep

This is what I know:

I am an environmental geologist that works for a municipal government. Our area is rather heavily military oriented, and I work a great deal with military environmental groups.

The environmental organizations for the military are relatively small and highly specialized, therefore they tend to cover almost all of the military environmental problems as they arise (and there are a LOT associated with the military).

I say this because during my "under the table" conversations with a number of them, I have found a good bit of infomration regarding Area 51, X Craft, and HAARP to name a few.

The story I have gotten from them regarding Area 51 is that it is currently a R&D and manufacturing facility for "X Craft", or human built spacecraft using MagnetoHydrodynamic propulsion technology.

These vehicles are deployed out of bases in Alaska, Wyoming, and Australia (which allow polar launching trajectories, away from populated areas, and seldom observed from the ground).

There is apparently a HIGHLY advanced space program, multinational in nature that has been in effect since the late 50s. Apparently a high intensity launch program started from 1959 to 1964 in order to establish a manned base on the moon. (The modern space program is basicaly a public relations program).

In 1986/87 a joint US/Russian mission was launched to Mars. This mission was apparently lost, with all crew. From what I understand, the cause for the loss of the ship "was of a non-technical non-engineering reason", IE, an external agency of some type.

Immediately after this, a large quantity of money was transferred from the Mars mission to the development of HAARP, apparently as an offensive weapons system.

Now, does this sound like BS? Could well be. After all, I never went to Area 51 to find this out myself. However, the people that told me this DO indeed have Top Secret clearances, and have access to very high level dangerous facilities. What I DID do was attend a Hazardous Materials Disclosure conference with the military. Myself, the HAZMAT chief and 2 HAZMAT captains, along with these same individuals suited up in Level A containment suits with SCBA and wandered through an underground bunker (IN OUR CITY) containing over 10 metric tons of VX.

So, I am rather inclined to believe them.

Ok, lets go back to facts...
majestic documents were released over 30 years after they were written...long time gone for a disinformation campaign to ensue...

Dr V Bush was apparently confirmed at that time, by a canadian inquiry, to have worked with "A GROUP" that researched the UFO Phenomena.

So far the info fits...

We have the well known conspiracy theorys that Sandia is the R&D for ATT and has benefitted (among others) from UFO tech.

We have the apparent connection of Dr V Bush to ATT at the time of Majestic.

This is also the age when many new technologies were emerging from the science labs...Solid state electronics, The beginning of the computer age...I forget the others...

Someone else pick a member of Majestic and see if they were appointed to any companys boards... Boeing, GE, General Dynamics. IBM, at the time or shortly after majestic...
lets all look for connections...
And DR, I think we all accept that most of the UFO's are manmade... but we are talking about majestic...lets look at the facts of this case...
BTW..the reason Tesla couldn't make his work back then was the lack of the support technology... He totally undestood the concept though... i am quite sure it is with his research that we have gotten where we are with this science.
One of Dr Bush's quotes said it best (paraphrased) " science will advance as other technologies advance... the egyptians were advanced and rich, but even if they had the blueprints for a car, and all the gold in egypt.. they couldn't have produced one that would make it half way to Giza..., Now we make cars easily and reliably."
And now we do have all the tech to make it work...
But i think majestic is real... i will do more research...
come on seekers...Google it....

I totally think that all this Majestic stuff is real.
But then I ran across this...

foia.fbi.gov...

So the FBI puts out this doc that calls Majestic 12 bogus, so whats up with that. Is it just more of thier dis-information campaign??!?!?

The MJ12 is most likely real. Govt agencies aren't going to say it's real of course, so they'll say it's bogus. If there was a secret that got out, would you say "yeah, you're right, it's real"? Probably not. Of course the Govt will deny it and say it's fake. Remember, the MJ12 will do ANYTHING to keep it a secret. With all the UFO sightings and alien abductions around the world and people seeing the same thing is very strange. Enough people have been abducted or have seen a UFO, that I highly doubt the govt doesn't know about it. With all the technology the govt has today, they could spot UFOs on radar. Even if the UFO can't be spotted on radar using the technology that we currently know about, I'm sure they have something that we don't know about of course. That technology would be improved over the current technology of course, so they might be able to spot UFOs in the atmosphere. But even if UFO technology is advanced enough so no radars could spot them, some agency within the govt HAS to know about the existance of aliens and UFOs.

Pressed ALERT by error.

Hope this works.. not sure what alert does... or how draft works.

So MJ12 was a fabrication to hide saucer operations.

Not until 1993 or so was the Tesla connection published although
the connection may have been on the back boiler for some time.