It must suck to be an Iranian ATSer now (hell, this probably goes for all other Iranians...)

Aight.

Don't take this the wrong way, this ain't a slam on Iranian ATSers, Iran or the Iranian people. This is just me speculating on this whole potential war situation.

I see a WHOLE lot of calls for Iran to be attacked or support behind an attack on Iran on this site. From air strikes to flat out nuking the place, it's pretty amazing. To me, these people pretend like Israel is actually in danger from Iran (400 nukes are no match for no nukes ) or that Iran poses a threat to the US. Come on, like Iran can really take the US, at least if the US fought a war to win instead of a debacle to fatten certain pockets (think Iraq). If they really wanted the US to win against Iran, Iran would lose, assuming no allies get involved.

I'm not slamming Iran's military, I'm just being real. But, you could bet that the Iranians would give a hell of a fight. I think the US casualties in a full war with Iran would exceed Vietnam casualties, but that's just me. Regardless, Iran ain't gonna roll over and let anyone stomp them into submission.

Anyway, my point is that it must suck to come on this site and see people calling for your country to be attacked or even nuked, especially when there's a REAL possibility that it could happen. You know, when it's not mere sable rattling. I would get REAL pissed if I saw people from countries with nukes calling for me and my family, who they don't even KNOW, to be vaporized. It must suck when people call for your country, your home to be turned into a glass parking lot like it's some tough guy slogan.

It must suck even more for Iranians with no access to alternative media. I'm not sure what mainstream media in Iran is like, but it's undoubtedly biased. What if they're being conned like the rest of us, and their media is telling them they can beat us or Israel? Either way, it must suck.

Hearing all those armchair generals saying "nuke em, take care of em, Israel should do our dirty work, deal with them, take care of the problem (you know what that sounds like ), kill em all, glass parking lot" probably pisses you off even more than the criminals running the show. I know we have some ATS members from Iran, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

0 Nukes? I didnt even finish reading your post after I read the first few lines. Come on man. You don't really believe that we're gonna go after Iran just because of Nukes? Besides that, they've already got nukes! Wake up!

Iran is just the next logical target in the American campaign to control the Middle East, if you haven't realized that yet, I'd like to know what hole your head has been buried in for the past several years.

Iran casualties>Vietnam casualties....you are correct. How many was it in Vietnam again? Who's gonna line up to die for that war? Not me.

10-4. It will definetly "suck" especially if you are in the B-Z draft from a Kiloton explosion. My bet is this Friday afternoon Tehran time... poof.

I have a friend who is from Iran, he has a had a tough time in the States especially dubya's States post 9-11-'01. When he was younger and he would get into trouble, his father would threaten him with sending him back to Iran. The weeks following the WTC attacks him and his family could not go anywhere, the ignorant "patriots" would jump them, throw rocks at them, shout obsenities, ect; simply because of how him and his family look, and none of them wear traditional arab clothing. Now with all this anti Iran propaganda I am sure him and his family will face even more social problems.

Our post 9-11 USA is terrible, our nation is divided. About the only change our country has seen is not Patriotism and Pride of being a US citizen, that has long faded away. It is now okay to descriminate against Arabs, at least that is what the good ol' boys are doing. Another war with another Middle Eastern country will only encourage this more.

Anyone half-wit knows that a nuclear or nucular war is a very bad thing, yet now we have a bunch of people talking about it. Apparently we have put people in power who want to start World War III. My opinion is the American people are just too stupid to see what is really happening and their concept of war is only what the see in movies.

Wake up America! We have people in power who want to start World War III.

[edit on 10-4-2006 by jrod]

[edit on 10-4-2006 by jrod]

When I read this post and thought about similar posts on ATS, I become incensed and dumbfounded. I simply cannot believe the ignorance that is regularly being spewed forth. To even bandy about the concept of dropping nuclear weapons as if they were "just another sort of bomb" is asinine. To think that war is something that can be taken lightheartedly is truly sad. And to think that there are those who can even suggest that, somehow, destroying or annihilating Iran is the way to solve what is still, for all intents and purposes, a diplomatic issue is ludicrous. It saddens me to think that there are people, right here on Above Top Secret, who could embrace ignorance.

I would accept that there are times when, regrettably, a war must be waged. I think about World War II when
en.wikipedia.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Adolf Hitler was the scourge of Europe, leading the Nazi's on a spree of destruction, wanton death and genocide. But, alas, the case in Iran is certainly not "there" yet. And, hopefully, the issues at hand with Iran will be settled in their own time -- peaceably through diplomatic efforts.

I cannot help but think that there are those whose age spared them from seeing or understanding the truly awful nature of war. Their understanding of war comes solely from the glamorization of war as found in Hollywood films and paperback adventure novels. There are those who imagine that all one has to do is launch a few missiles, drop a few bombs or detonating, the unspeakable -- nuclear weapons.

My parents were refugees during the Second World War, trapped between fronts and running for their lives. They told me about the horrors of the so-called "just war". They told me about seeing family and friends being wounded and killed. They told me about the nightmare that they lived for six years.

My brother fought in Viet Nam. He served for two tours in the "Brown water Navy" as an adviser to ARVN troops. He hardly talks about that time. Suffice it to say, he came home from Viet Nam a man who was "changed". He certainly never describes war as some sort of "playground for heroes".

War is a violent action that, ultimately, no one wins. When a war is waged, we all lose.

[edit on 4/10/2006 by benevolent tyrant]

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant

When I read this post, I was, frankly, dumbfounded. I simply could not believe the ignorance that was being spewed forth. To even bandy about the concept of dropping nuclear weapons as if they were "just another sort of bomb" is asinine. To think that war is something that can be taken lightheartedly is truly sad. And to think that there are those who can even suggest that, somehow, destroying or annihilating Iran is the way to solve what is still, for all intents and purposes, a diplomatic issue is ludicrous. It saddens me to think that there are people, right here on Above Top Secret, who could embrace ignorance.

I totally agree... these people think it's some sort of video-game or something. It's sad.

Originally posted by afterdark
0 Nukes? I didnt even finish reading your post after I read the first few lines. Come on man. You don't really believe that we're gonna go after Iran just because of Nukes? Besides that, they've already got nukes! Wake up!

Iran is just the next logical target in the American campaign to control the Middle East, if you haven't realized that yet, I'd like to know what hole your head has been buried in for the past several years.

Iran casualties>Vietnam casualties....you are correct. How many was it in Vietnam again? Who's gonna line up to die for that war? Not me.

Really?

What news network did you see this on? With all the war drum beating going on, I'm SURE I would have seen that on TV for a week already.

Benevolent Tyrant, I don't quite understand you.

Are you saying that war should not be discussed here in ANY circumstance?

Yeah we really do have to think about that, it's hard to place yourself in these shoes. Really, the more you think about this Iran issue, the crazier it sounds. I still barely know what it's all about, it's like they have gotten lazy with their justifications and are just doing it. They are still probably feeding off of the propaganda from the Iraq war, i don't know.
I do feel that the Iran war would be the start of the real wars, Iraq was just a short stop along the way.

"I cannot help but think that there are those whose age spared them from seeing or understanding the truly awful nature of war. Their understanding of war comes solely from the glamorization of war as found in Hollywood films and paperback adventure novels. There are those who imagine that all one has to do is launch a few missiles, drop a few bombs or detonating, the unspeakable -- nuclear weapons."

I think that was the jist of the post... While many here might support military action against Iran, it is a separate issue from the fact that many on ats ALSO treat it like a video-game, casually brushing off the fact that innocent people will die. I just don't understand how anyone could act so cavalier about something as horrible as nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Benevolent Tyrant, I don't quite understand you.

Are you saying that war should not be discussed here in ANY circumstance?

Of course I'm not saying that we can't discuss warfare. What I am saying is that, perhaps, we hold back on statements found here, and elsewhere throughout ATS, suggesting that "we nuke 'em", as if that would solve anything. Or that a war with Iran is a forgone conclusion and that we should just get on with it.

This rant, as it turns out it was, was a culmination of reading a variety of posts that truly suggest that not only can the U.S. win a war in Iran ( which it most likely could) but that we should simply stop "wasting time".

To address the original topic, let me say that it probably does, indeed "suck to be an Iranian" when one is confronted by post after post condoning the destruction of their country. But mostly it must deeply sadden Iranians everywhere when they are confronted by rhetoric fueled by ignorance.

Iran is a proud nation with a great history. Unfortunately, at present, they are a nation that is governed in a manner which limits their independence, their hopes and dreams. But when an Iranian looks outward, for hope and sanity, what do they find? They come face to face with the same sort of nuclear posturing that they must face in their own country.

Yeah, it must truly suck for Iranians. But it also sucks to be a part of the world that espouses a sort of peace that is found at the end of a gun barrel -- in this case, a 100 megaton gun barrel.

So please forgive me if I went "off topic" and onto a rant. It's just that sometimes I get irritated when people can suggest using nukes as if they were water balloons. I get upset when people cannot see that war is not a solution to anything but that it only breeds more hatred, more misery and the loss of so many innocent lives. Why it makes me sooooo made, I feel like nuking someone.

You have voted benevolent tyrant for way above top secret...

That was what I was wanting somebody to say. It saddens me that, in this day and age, people are so lighthearted when talking about war. War is not a game, it's deadly. I hate it. I can't wait to get off this war-filled rock. Enough said.

Thank you, benevolent tyrant.

Edit to add:

I'm glad there's atleast one person in this crap-hole of a world who has his/her (sorry, not sure what gender you are ) head screwed on properly!

[edit on 11-4-2006 by xeroxed88]

Well, BT, that kinda was my point.

It seems like everytime I turn around, someone's saying "nuke em/kill em/take care of em" like it's a slogan. My intent was to get you to imagine yourself on the other end of the world (literally), seeing people foaming at the mouth calling for the destruction of you, your family, your country, your civilization.

Even if they aren't nuked, death sucks just as much from an air strike or a bullet to your dome. Remember, in Japan, people were literally turned into shadows on the pavement from the nukes, but a LOT more people died from carpet bombs.

I don't know where you see me being cavalier about it, but I want you to imagine it. Imagine that you were in a country with a nutcase at the helms, basically defenseless against those from powerful countries calling for military action against you. And for what, because your country wants to join the I have nukes party. Imagine that you could be attacked next month, next year, maybe TOMORROW, and a ton of people would be happy that you were dying.

If I were Iranian, I would DEFINITELY be pissed, based on gems such as the PNAC documents, when my country was 3rd on the list for invasion and the 1st 2 had already been hit...

Originally posted by truthseeka
Well, BT, that kinda was my point.

It seems like everytime I turn around, someone's saying "nuke em/kill em/take care of em" like it's a slogan. My intent was to get you to imagine yourself on the other end of the world (literally), seeing people foaming at the mouth calling for the destruction of you, your family, your country, your civilization.

Point well made, Truthseeka. You succeeded in making me feel as upset about war -- impending nuclear attack and destruction as an Iranian. I can readily imagine how a simple Iranian peasant must feel (if he were privy to the world's news and not some propagandized media).

It's just that this post popped up after a culmination of an evenings worth of reading through posts where truly cavalier attitudes about nukes and war seemed to taunt me. This led to my "rant".

I can see your point of view clearly now and, I must openly admit, you posed a valid question (though I might have posed it differently). Too many ATS members -- especially the younger ones -- simply do not comprehend what war is or what it means. Instead of reading about the horrors and futility of war, too often I read some sort of idealization of war as some grand adventure where only the "bad guys" are killed and to the victor go the spoils and everyone lives happily ever after.

Wars are easily started -- too easily. It doesn't take a great mind to commit one's nation to battle. It takes a wise man to open dialogues and to work tirelessly to avert war. Through dialogue, through diplomacy there is always hope for a peaceful resolution that benefits all. I pray that wisdom prevails over ego and bravado.

[edit on 4/11/2006 by benevolent tyrant]

Originally posted by truthseeka


Really?

What news network did you see this on? With all the war drum beating going on, I'm SURE I would have seen that on TV for a week already.

News network?

Please, are we acutally going to credit the NEWS as the end-all-be-all source of whats really going on?

The only reason I watch the news, is to get a basis of what the government WANTS us to think. Critical thinking and further reading reveals the only logical reasons for government actions.

It actually would not be that far-out of an idea to think that Iran somehow aquired its nuclear arsenal with the indirect assistance of American intelligence. After all, we're just itching for a reason to invade them, why not give ourselves that reason.

Of course there is talk of nuking/bombing Iran... Just as there is talk of Iran killing American's!!

It is give and take.. nobody is wishing anything on the other. Posting a new thread saying we have this new missile and it would be able to destroy American ships on a mostly American board is bound to make people react with threats of their own armed forces.

Nothing is meant by this though. And I barely see Americans boasting about new technology and actually aim it at another country like many people from Iran do.

Many of the posts are just bravado or give and take. Nobody would wish war on another race.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Anyway, my point is that it must suck to come on this site and ...

A few weeks back the mods posted the hits by country. So let's see
it again. Exactly how many people from Iran are members? How
many hits from inside Iran to this site are there .. oh let's say in the
past month or so??

Perhaps it would be good to hear from them ... both those that are
in Iran having to live under the nut job president and those that
are living a more free lifestyle outside of Iran.

When America, and the coalition of the willing, went into Iraq and
liberated it, the TV news showed a whole lotta' very happy Iraqis
living in Detroit. They were THRILLED that we went into Iraq.

I highly doubt we are going into Iran anytime soon. However,
since you brought it up, let's hear from real Iranians who are
members. Does it 'suck' coming here and reading what you read?
If so ... why and how does it 'suck'??

Edited to add - Heck .. another question ... does the Iranian government
even allow people in that country full internet access, and access to this
website? If there are 'hits' from inside that country, are they from that
government, or are they actually from the people, like in the universities?
Is there anyway to know for sure?

[edit on 4/11/2006 by FlyersFan]

One would hope that no users here genuinely wish harm on Iran. That's just it, though. There are those - here and elsewhere - who truly believe in and hope for war with Iran, as they see it not simply as a final option, but the best or only option.

I applaud trusthseeka, BenevolentTyrant, and the others who have posted in this thread, for their insight and, frankly, compassion. I too feel it must be difficult for those Iranian citizens - and everyone else potentially in the crosshairs - to think that they may be targets of military action. I also concur that this is a side of the equation everyone could stand to take into consideration more often and to a greater extent. Whether you believe the military means would be justified by the potential gains or not, people there would still die, and suffer.

For whatever it is worth, to those of you who may be reading this who are Iranian, or who have family or other loved ones in Iran, I would like you to know that even though I will shed tears for American and allied soldiers in the event that a war should come, you are also my brothers and sisters, and I will shed tears for you as well. Let us hope this never comes to pass.


[edit on 11-4-2006 by AceWombat04]

Im not arab,iranian or persian but i am muslim but i will say one thing i've been to alot of boards/forums on the net and i have to say this ATS one is the best of the best. Although there is some retarded behaviour by some members such as ignorent bigotry/racism towards arabs/iranians/muslims this board is still the most tollerent board that i have ever been too. The majority of the people are fair and decent.

Also i really enjoy talking and debating with the people on this board. I personally dont think any Iranian would be too bothered about some of the stuff that is said on this board becuase its even handed where there is equal amount of debate on both sides. on some forums muslims/arabs/Iranians get picked on by everybody like a gang-bang even the moderators are using racism and threaths against them it must be hell but here every one has an equal chance to get the point accross without the moderators picking on you.

Thumbs up for ATS

If there are any Iranians reading this, I hope they know that I wish our government would just leave Iran alone. We've done more than enough damage to Iraq.

It's none of our business what another nation does within its own borders!

Tell you what, I'm pretty well fed up with Bushco's posturing and warmongering. I'm not so much anti-war as against unnecessary, unconstitutional wars!