Rwanada

I know this now happened some time back, but i recently caught a documentery about the tragedy. It just shocks me the complete lack of action by the west and the U.N. They knew of the build up of weapons as they were continuosly informed by general Dalliere. The prompt pull out of un peacekeepers only encouraged the killings, why did no one country have the guts to keep there troops in there and stp the killing through force? Namely the british and the americans voted to pull the troops out!! It just kills me seeing how easily we sent our troops into Iraq but refused to save 800,000 people from death through machete. Did they just not care as not many westerners were involved.Pres Clinton "... I mention it only because there are a sizable number of Americans there and it is a very tense situation. And I just want to assure the families of those who are there that we are doing everything we possible can to be on top of the situation to take all the appropriate steps to try to assure the safety of our citizens there." Your thoughts please.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
It just kills me seeing how easily we sent our troops into Iraq but refused to save 800,000 people from death through machete. Did they just not care as not many westerners were involved.

Great subject. I think this is one of the darkest moments of our modern age.

People can talk about race relations all they want, but the line from Nick Nolte in Hotel Rwanda (the movie) sums it all up. He tells the hero of the movie, "You aren't even an [n-word]. You're just black."

Truthfully, there is a powerful current of racism and bigotry that runs through men's hearts. All races can tap into it, and of course, whichever race is dominant, will probably act on it at some point. I am saying that if blacks were globally dominant, there would certainly be massacres of whites. Racism and bigotry are not exclusively traits of whitey.

How does one act on racism? Well, this is a great example. The racists acted by not acting. Simple really. All the world powers argued, "Our hands are tied and we cannot interfere!" but in fact, the people of the world wanted them to stand up and be leaders. The people wanted them to LEAD and solve this horrible problem, not to shrink like cowards as Clinton did.

May the blood of Rwandans forever rest on the head of Bill Clinton and his cronies. May they be haunted by those ghosts for the rest of eternity.

I remember this event well, and the horror of it will never leave my mind. It is one thing to abandon a technological country like kosovo or what have you, but to abandon people who are really not able to handle the modern world? To incite racism and stand by while it all explodes? In truth, I think Rwanda was some kind of giant, Satanic orgy. I think there were people laughing and rolling around in blood somewhere down there. They loved every minute of it, sick bastards.

It really showed how inept the UN is as well without support from the US it cannot do anything really it mose well be called the US!! Genocide seems to be a consitant theme in human history due to lack of action. When we governments actually stand up when they see the same thing repeating itself again and again. Sudan is a prime example right now. It is not being covered much by the media but thousands of people are being murdered, and still no real action. All the Un had to do in 1994 was keep a sizeable force in Rwanda and forceably end the fighting by dropping the ridiculous no shot policy of peacekeeping missons. The killers would of had no chance and the death toll would of been nowhere near 800,000.

Hello Peruvianmonk,

If you would like to get really frustrated about the whole sordid mess read
"Shake Hands With the Devil: The Failure of Humanity in Rwanda" (Carroll & Graf, 2004). This is General Dallaire's personal account of that whole disaster.

It seems that, after the debacle in Somalia, the UN just didn't have the interest in handling Rwanda; that, plus a whole lot of bureaucratic bungling. As you are probably aware, Dallaire's job was not made any easier by the fact that he spent a lot of energy trying to avert a civil war with people who did not share the same interest, even though they talked as if they did.

The attitude of the Belgian's regarding their former colony, and their loyalty to the Hutu's, was certainly of no help to Dallaire.

Dallaire came home a suicidal man who suffered horribly from PTSD, the highest ranking officer ever to suffer openly with it. He wrote his book in an effort to help bring some personal healing from that disaster, and to highlight some of the people who worked so hard and did so much with so little, at times at the cost of their own lives.

Frontline did an exceptional 2-hour documentary called "Genocide In Rwanda". Excerpts from it are available on the Frontline website.

One of our local pastor's is interviewed in one of the segments. He ran an orphanage there, and was able to save many, many people who were about to be massacred by the Interahamwe.

He still speaks with great anger and disgust at the international community, and especially the US, in failing to do something about ii.

After the Holocaust it seemed that everyone was saying "Never Again"; and yet, it keeps on happening.

If the Mogadishu incident hadn't have happened the US probably would have sent troops to Rwanda but I think people were tired of playing world police for nations who may not have even welcomed the effort.

Rwanda was probably seen as another Somalia so they stayed out.
At the time it was going on I remember thinking it was unfortunate but that it was probably the right decision to make.

Also, you cant compare wars under Bush with wars under Clinton.
They were two dfferent Presidents with different views on the world and on defense.

The Ends of the Earth by Robert kaplan? Excellent look at the scene in the West African states, Liberia, etc.

[edit on 4/10/2006 by apocalypticon]

[edit on 4/10/2006 by apocalypticon]

ok...this is really getting irritating...twice I have tried to edit my post by adding a single sentence, and lost the whole thing both times...let's try again...

I agree with you AceOfBase; the Somalia mission definitely influenced the lack of response in Rwanda. Dallaire says so in his book, so that was his take on it too.

Another instance when timely, decisive action was crucial to success. Once the killing reached a certain level and the Tutsi armies began retaking the country attaining a successful outcome would have been much, much more difficult. Basically it would have meant trying to keep two warring armies seperated, one driven by revenge and the other by survival.

Foreign nations like Belgium and France also complicated things by interfering on the side of the Hutu's.

It really underlines how volatile the situation in some West African states is. Have any of you folks read "The Ends of the Earth" by Robert Kaplan? A very sobering look at the situation of millions and millions of people in West Africa who are seldom on our radar screens...

And I know I don't want the UN to be responsible for my security...

Somalia is no excuse for what happened in Rwanda it is the job of leaders to make the tough decisions even if they are risky. And tired of playing world police??!! America was never tired before and hasn`t been since, when it suite there interest along with every other Western power. It was a disgrace.

It was a disgrace...but there is a difference between an excuse and a reason. There may not have been an "excuse" for it, but there was a reason for it. And one of the reasons was the failure of the Somalia mission.

And, America certainly wasn't the only ones who could have done something there. Belgium has a lot of culpability here, imho.

But hey, what do I know; I'm just an American, and we're responsible for everything bad that happens in the world, right? Yeah, I thought so...

[edit on 4/10/2006 by apocalypticon]

I did say America and the other western nations!! Belguim divided the two races who are virtually the same, so it is mostly there fault for the beggining of the massacers.

Yes Peruvianmonk, much of what you say is true and I apologize for my defensive reaction.

The Clinton State Department threw a huge stumbling block into the whole issue by arguing ad nauseum over whether or not the killing in Rwanda fit the UN definition of "Genocide"; in fact, they argued it until it was too late to do anything about it.

I also agree with smallpeeps that race played a role in the foot-dragging. It's inexcusable, but there it is...

I guess I get a bit sensitive to what seems to be constant criticism of America over just about anything these days. And certainly, much of it is deserved.

But I believe we have also done a lot of good in the world, maybe not right at the moment in the Middle East, but in the past and, I believe, we will in the future also.

Certainly, we failed in not pressuring the UN to get off it's butt and get busy with Rwanda. But, as you pointed out, the Belgians were responsible for setting up a situation which could eventually unfold the way it did, and then they and the French did their best to interfere with any solutions being attempted.

We are still suffering the effects of Colonialism in the world...

By the way, are you really in Peru? My wife is a nurse and will be going to Peru for 3 weeks in August to help set up an innoculation/injection clinic in a remote village there.
Please tell me Sindero Luminoso isn't still active...

Yes i am in Peru im teaching English in Huarez a town in the andes, it`s an amazing place, do you what part of Peru your wife will be in?

Oh and no there not really active there are a few hiding out in the jungle in the north trying to protect the drug cartels. They only really attack the police they have no need to attack Gringos as it would bring another crackdown on them, so no need to worry. I feel safer here than i do in England.