Palestine has made a poor decision

In monitoring the situation between Israel and Palestine, it appears that a situation that was in the midst of being defused is now being fueled.
With Hamas openly being Hostile to Isreal, it appears that Palestine just doesnt get it..Is it religion? Pride? Or just plain stupidity.

english.aljazeera.net...

Early off I had thought that Israels occupation and excessive military force had created a situation of a desperate people who were left no other choice but to take action on a personal level. The world wide community labeled these bombers as terrorists and over time, I had come to understand their plight. Thats changing.

In light of recent events, Palestine is creating their own hotbed. I am losing sympathy for their plight as diplomacy proves not to be something they understand.

Palestine.needs to figure it out. Reduce the threat..be diplomatic, add credibility to your cause and maintain peace..As it is now, your on a train wreck for disaster and your not going to win.

While Democracy has the right to appoint an administration, adopting a known hostile faction into government was not what I consider to be an inteligent move. Peace over power. While an entier generation has grown up under Israels thumb, I beleive that Israel has made a major consolation, and it appears that Hamas more views this as a victory. Not so...It was Sharons concept of making peace...This generation needs to learn diplomacy so they may attain sovereign nation status..Until then..it appears to be a pipe dream.

Peace

[edit on 9-4-2006 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 9-4-2006 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 9-4-2006 by HIFIGUY]

I don't have much of an opinion on this subject other than it certainly does quell the USA's much touted "domino effect" defense on attacking the Middle East.

As you said palestine has established a position that is uneasily defendable by any rational logic. I think that the escalating situation between Isreal and Palestine will give Iran the excuse they need to attack as well as the excuse we need to whipe Iran and Palestine off the Frikken Map. Once this occurs we could see the formation of a large anti western coalition comprised of China, Russia and NK just to name a few. In the case of such results its important to understand that the US will whipe the cloor flean with any oposition. Whether for right or wrong you have to respect the military technology we posess and even though the quest for democracy is a front, it doesnt mean that the true reasons are purely selfish either.

With growing problems concerning the worlds population you wonder if this is our next way of solving the population process (world wide EXTERMINATION) and if it is, will we be succesful?

The reason 'Palestine' elected hamas (if you can call a few small caged areas a 'Palestine'), is because Israel never offers the Palestinians anything that could remotly be called freedom or equal rights or a state; from the start of the Oslo peace accords it was obvious that Israel was only interested in containing the Palestinians, not working with them as equal partners so as to achieve a state and normal borders--'settlement blocks' means a disconected bantustans for Palestinians..the area of Palestine confined by the fense/wall is about 10% of the total territory of Israel/Palestine--separated into at least 4 bantustans.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
In monitoring the situation between Israel and Palestine, it appears that a situation that was in the midst of being defused is now being fueled.
With Hamas openly being Hostile to Isreal, it appears that Palestine just doesnt get it..Is it religion? Pride? Or just plain stupidity

.

HIFIGUY,

I always admire westerners' "selective memory" including you, which is always pro-Israel.

If you are monitireng the situation between Israel and Palestine, why dont you remeber that Israelis killed Mr. Rabin, because he decided to implement the UN resolutions regarding Israeli occupation of Palestine, then electing the terrorist , extremeist, racist and massmurderer "Sharon", even that they know that he slaughtered thousands of palestinians in "Sabra and Shatilla " refugee camps in lebanon plus his athor genocides against palestenians. also he vowed that he assain all palestenian leaders+build more illigal settlements in occupied land+destroy the road map+stop negotiating with yasser arafat +build the shame wall of israelis on palestinean land+kill any effort towards ending israeli-palestinian conflict+seizing the remaining of palestenian land and Jerausalem .and don't forget his famous visit to Dome of the Rock Mousque , triggering the second Intifada, and killing thousands of palestinians todate.

Tell me now? Is it religion? Pride? Or just plain stupidity of Israeilis to elect a hostile criminal like Sharon or the Israelis just doesnt get it..


Palestinians elected Hamas, because Sharon rediculed moderate Arafat and imprisoned him for many years in his office, cut all deplomatic ties with him, bringing silly excuses, for not negotiating with him. first destroying all palestinian security infrastructure then asking Mr. araft to control extremists, knowing that an impossible task, did you get it now. Mr. Sharon helped hamas to win elections so he can have a solid exuse to end negotiations of final peace with palestinians forever, telling the worl that hamas are hostile and they want to destroy Isarael...etc. because of that israelis will do what ever they want and no one can criticize them. In middleeast we know all israeli dirty tricks to avoid returning occupiedland to palestenians. the problem is the western world is more than ready to believe israeli silly lies and confirm them

In light of recent events, Palestine is creating their own hotbed. I am losing sympathy for their plight as diplomacy proves not to be something they understand.

.

Oh, I am not surprised at all, see this is the typical western point of view, palestinians always wrong , and poor Israelis (who are controlling even the movement of palestenian president's , to and out of toilet) are always right. see the irony. what do you think palestinians understand? you are asking for more israeli atrocities and genocide agains palestinians, aren't you satisfied yet, you want victims of a holocaust to make anothe holocaust for paletinians?

Palestine.needs to figure it out. Reduce the threat..be diplomatic, add credibility to your cause and maintain peace..As it is now, your on a train wreck for disaster and your not going to win. .

.

So you are asking palestinians to quit and stop struglling to gain back their occupied land and freedom? FYI, palestinians did what you're asking them to do and more, and what they recieved from Israilis in return, nothing, just lies, insults, killings.

How is it that Palestine has fueled anything? No one has seen any negative statements come out of the newly elected government and all we have been seeing is negative statements coming from the US and Israel trying to cut them off before they have even begun to administer any type of authority. Its the usual scenario. Attack their police force and say they are being ineffective, and now its economic strangulation and their ineffectuality. Then when the people retaliate they point their fingers innocently. This is total BS. Its obvious they just want to cut them off at the knees and be rid of them. I know the US will not but I hope the EU can come to their senses and effect some justice for a change.

Originally posted by nephyx
as well as the excuse we need to whipe Iran and Palestine off the Frikken Map.

Ohh, another Psychopath on ATS, I dare you Mr.nephyx, to say the same thing about Israel, can you say " to whipe Israel off the Frikken Map"? haha....I don't think so , you know why, because jews will kick your butt and destroy you, your family and you future, if they hear you criticizing them or insulting them, like you are doing for palestinians and Iranians.

one day , arabs and muslims will have the same power as jews to kick your butt mr. psycho. I am looking forward to that day.

Originally posted by jajabinks
The reason 'Palestine' elected hamas (if you can call a few small caged areas a 'Palestine'), is because Israel never offers the Palestinians anything that could remotly be called freedom or equal rights or a state;

Never? An absolute assetion that has proven untrue.
Hamas was elected because of what they promised to do for the Palestinian people, period, not because of what you have otherwise asserted, jajabinks.




seekerof

Originally posted by dana2006
Ohh, another Psychopath on ATS,

People should refrain from calling other people names and instead, file a complaint.

I dare you Mr.nephyx, to say the same thing about Israel, can you say " to whipe Israel off the Frikken Map"? haha....I don't think so, you know why, because jews will kick your butt and destroy you, your family and you future, if they hear you criticizing them or insulting them, like you are doing for palestinians and Iranians.

I guess you have forgotten that Mr.nephx has no need to say such about Israel, being that an Iranian President has already done it for him?
Try this:
Iran's President Calls For Israel's Destruction

I noticed that Israel has yet to "kick" his "butt" and "destroy" him, his "family," and his "future." Let me know when they do, I would consider lending a hand.




seekerof

You have voted dana2006 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

well said

one day , arabs and muslims will have the same power as jews to kick your butt mr. psycho. I am looking forward to that day.

BRING IT ON!!!

your arab and muslim governments are controlled by the same entities the american, european and israeli governments controlled by. so why hate and blast the average people? all you retards in the middle east don't realize 1 vital fact:almost none of us americans trust anything our government/media says or does. so why do you blame us for what is out of our power? i'd like to see an arab or muslim say something so foolish to my face and see what would happen.i'll tell you this, I wouldn't hide behind an explosive vest, AK-47, or a religion, i'd just take it to ya right there, 1 shot from a fist and a few from my feet. arab/muslim population=world of cowards.

Originally posted by Seekerof
I guess you have forgotten that Mr.nephx has no need to say such about Israel, being that an Iranian President has already done it for him?


seekerof

What does the president of Iran have to do with Palestinians? They are not even really Arabs. They don't even speak Arabic they speak Farsi. Just because Israel does not speak publically of the wishing of destruction to the Palestinians does not mean that its not something thats on their minds. Actions speak louder then words. In this case its practically screaming.


Pie

Originally posted by descendantofclairvoyance
i'd like to see an arab or muslim say something so foolish to my face and see what would happen.i'll tell you this, I wouldn't hide behind an explosive vest, AK-47, or a religion, i'd just take it to ya right there, 1 shot from a fist and a few from my feet. arab/muslim population=world of cowards.

No you wouldn't hide behind a vest or an ak-47 just a computer keyboard and a Cable modem. You are American? Im embarrassed. Nothing worse then an internet tough guy threatening and throwin out hate anonymously.
Good luck in your endeavours. Maybe you will find some 12 year old arab kid that you can take it out on one day.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
What does the president of Iran have to do with Palestinians?
They are not even really Arabs. They don't even speak Arabic they speak Farsi.

Huh? And that matters how, again?

What is the connection, you ask?
Umm, how about Iran aids and supports HAMAS--despite not even really being Arabs and not speaking Farsi. Hello?!

Just because Israel does not speak publically of the wishing of destruction to the Palestinians does not mean that its not something thats on their minds. Actions speak louder then words. In this case its practically screaming.

Yeah....right...of course...






seekerof

[edit on 10-4-2006 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Huh? And that matters how, again?

What is the connection, you ask?
Umm, how about Iran created and supports HAMAS--despite not even really being Arabs and not speaking Farsi. Hello?!

The idea of Israel promoting an Iranian agent also is not far-fetched if one understands the history. The elder Bush could tell his son about the long-standing strategic ties that have existed between Israel and Iran, both before and after the Islamic revolution of 1979. It was Menachem Begin’s Likud Party that rebuilt the covert intelligence relationship in 1980. Since then, it has been maintained through thick and thin, despite Iran’s public anti-Israeli rhetoric.

www.consortiumnews.com...





[edit on 10-4-2006 by ThePieMaN]

Oh, now we have to play the source game, huh?
How about deny this?

What are Hamas’ origins?
Hamas grew out of the Muslim Brotherhood, a religious and political organization founded in Egypt with branches throughout the Arab world. Beginning in the late 1960s, Hamas' founder and spiritual leader, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, preached and did charitable work in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, both of which were occupied by Israel following the 1967 Six-Day War. In 1973, Yassin established al-Mujamma' al-Islami (the Islamic Center) to coordinate the Muslim Brotherhood's political activities in Gaza. Yassin founded Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood's local political arm in December 1987, following the eruption of the first intifada, a Palestinian uprising against Israeli control of the West Bank and Gaza. Hamas published its official charter in 1988.

The first Hamas suicide bombing took place in April 1993. Five months later, Yasir Arafat, the then-leader of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), and Yitzhak Rabin, then-prime minister of Israel, sealed the Oslo accords—an Israeli-Palestinian peace pact that eventually unraveled. Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli right-wing fanatic in November 1995. Arafat died in November 2004.

Where does Hamas’ money come from?
Given its recent electoral victory to lead the PA, Hamas will now have public funds at its disposal. Historically, much of Hamas' funding has come from Palestinian expatriates and private donors in Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich Persian Gulf states. Iran also provides significant support, which some diplomats say could amount to $20 million to $30 million per year. In addition, some Muslim charities in the United States, Canada, and Western Europe funnel money into Hamas-backed social service groups. In December 2001, the Bush administration seized the assets of the Holy Land Foundation, the largest Muslim charity in the United States, on suspicions it was funding Hamas.
Hamas

seekerof

[edit on 10-4-2006 by Seekerof]

[ModEdit: removed unnecessary quote of entire preceeding post]

You just said that Iran created Hamas now in the "Source" you provided it says that Egypt did. Please make up your mind.
What is 20-30million a year in support? Thats a pittance to feed and support all those palestinians! Its strange how Iraq who was giving aid to the palestinians via donations was attacked and now Iran for giving humanitarian aid as well. Why is it that anyone that gives them any aid is being targetted as terrorist/rogue nations? Please. Thats ridiculous.

Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.






[edit on 4/25/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

posted by HIFIGUY: “In monitoring the situation between Israel and Palestine, it appears that a situation that was in the midst of being defused is now being fueled. [Edited by Don W]

If you are referring to the unilateral disengagement by Israel under Sharon I don’t see that at all as “in the midst of being defused.”

With Hamas openly being Hostile to Israel . . Is it religion? Pride? Or plain stupidity. Early off I thought Israeli’s occupation and excessive military force created a situation of a desperate people left with no other choice but to take action on a personal level.

I have posted elsewhere I am convinced no progress can be made on this issue - 2 people wanting the same ground - if we go back further than 1967 to make arguments. The Six Day War produced a single political entity overseeing the whole land. Israel felt “safe” in its position vis a vis the Arab world. From their point of view, it was all “down hill.”

(Now violating my own 1967 Rule) Unfortunately, the very democracy that is Israel may have been the cause of all the tragedy that has followed. Jewish extremists contend God gave Abraham all the land from the Tigris and Euphrates south to the Red Sea. Because of the close division of the majority if Israelis, these people were able to influence successive governments of Israel far beyond their numbers or the rationality of their arguments justified. So they brilliantly brought us to today. That’s too bad. It shouldn’t have happened but it did and it has.

I had come to understand their plight. That’s changing. In light of recent events, Palestine is creating their own hotbed. I am losing sympathy for their plight as diplomacy proves not to be something they understand.

This ritually sanctified scenario presents the most unjustified demand on the part of the United States and Israel that I can imagine. The US Israel positions is its “enemy” must disarm itself before they will agree to discuss a settlement.

Everyone agrees the Palestinians have very little strength to take to the table. They have mostly claims of “justice” and “UN resolutions” without number and “world sympathy” for the downtrodden and much beleaguered. These are not bargaining chips. This is more reminiscent of Lenin’s suing for peace in 1917. If Hamas was not made up of people of honor and integrity how simple it would be to make the public pronouncements the West wants to hear, and then, if things don’t go their way, to revert - covertly of course - to the old ways of resistence.

Suicide bombers do not agitate me like they seem to do to so many. The Oberfuhrer - Rumsfeld - said it himself, “You fight the war with what you have, not what you’d like to have.” Israel has tanks, war helicopters, control of the coast-line, all the electronic gadgetry the US has to “test” on live people, and as much money as they need. The opposition - the people who inhabit the occupied territories - is limited to the weapons they can carry. Not an equal match.

Q. Does anyone here actually believe Israel would even consent to talk to any Palestinians if it were not for the constant threat of more suicide bombers?

Palestine needs to figure it out. Reduce the threat . . While Democracy has the right to choose an administration, adopting a known hostile faction into government was not what I consider to be an intelligent move. I believe that Israel has made a major concession [Gaza] . . it appears that Hamas views this as a victory. Not so . . It was Sharon’s concept of making peace . . This generation needs to learn diplomacy so they may attain sovereign nation status..Until then . . it appears to be a pipe dream. Peace

Sweet Jesus. Scripted in Tel Aviv. Or Jerusalem. America’s formula for peace: Give up, kowtow to the Israelis and God will bless you.

Not likely.

posted by jajabinks: “The reason 'Palestine' elected Hamas (if you can call a few small caged areas a 'Palestine'), is because Israel never offers the Palestinians anything that could remotely be called freedom or equal rights or a state; from the start of the Oslo peace accords it was obvious that Israel was only interested in containing the Palestinians, not working with them as equal partners so as to achieve a state and normal borders -'settlement blocks' means a disconcerted Bantustan for Palestinians . . the area of Palestine confined by the fence/wall is about 10% of the total territory of Israel and Palestine - separated into at least 4 Bantustans.

Exactly, JJB, exactly.

[edit on 4/10/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
You just said that Iran created Hamas now in the "Source" you provided it says that Egypt did. Please make up your mind.

I had edited it BEFORE you even commented to it.
ATS should time and date all edits, just for this reason.

What is 20-30million a year in support? Thats a pittance to feed and support all those palestinians!

Excuse me, but that aid to Hamas is simply for their operations, ThePieMaN.
This aid and support has been coming to Hamas far longer than Hamas has held office in Palestine. Your attempt to corrupt and twist the information given is ludicrous.

Its strange how Iraq who was giving aid to the palestinians via donations was attacked

Donations?! Um, you are referring to the $15,000-25,000 Saddam was paying to the families of SUICIDE BOMBERS?

and now Iran for giving humanitarian aid as well.

The aid and support that Iran is giving to Hamas is NOT for humanitarian purposes. Hello?!

Why is it that anyone that gives them any aid is being targetted as terrorist/rogue nations? Please. Thats ridiculous.

Just explained why, while also showing your illogical understanding of how that Iranian aid is applied. It is not going to help nor aid the Palestinian people, no more than Hamas now being in political control is aiding the Palestinians or their right to self-determination. Amazes me to this day that a politcal terrorist entity as Hamas can promise to clean up the streets in Palestine and get elected.







seekerof

[edit on 10-4-2006 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Excuse me, but that aid to Hamas is simply for their operations, ThePieMaN.
This aid and support has been coming to Hamas far longer than Hamas has held office in Palestine. Your attempt to corrupt and twist the information given is ludicrous.
Donations?! Um, you are referring to the $15,000-25,000 Saddam was paying to the families of SUICIDE BOMBERS?

No Im talking about the aid that was given to the families whose homes were destroyed. Not all Palestinians are terrorists.

The aid and support that Iran is giving to Hamas is NOT for humanitarian purposes. Hello?!

and you know this for fact how?Mossad reports I assume?

Just explained why, while also showing your illogical understanding of how that Iranian aid is applied. It is not going to help nor aid the Palestinian people, no more than Hamas now being in political control is aiding the Palestinians or the right to self-determination.

Illogical because it doesn't jibe with your ideas of whats being done over there? I don't think so. Hamas has yet to even take power and already you make judgements. No matter what government was elected it would have been doomed wether it was PLO or HAMAS. Since they have all been villanized as a people its so easy to mark anyone as being a terrorist. You would only accept a government that came in and said they want nothing but to be annexed and that they have no rights to anything, thats what you are looking for. Its obvious. Anything or Anyone that would want any independence or land will be considered hostile.















[edit on 10-4-2006 by ThePieMaN]