Drop out nation

This is a real scary trend, where do these kids thinks they will work.
Just how is the standard of living going to improve for them if they can't get decent jobs?

cnn.com

The dispute is difficult to referee, particularly in the wake of decades of lax accounting by states and schools. But the majority of analysts and lawmakers have come to this consensus: the numbers have remained unchecked at approximately 30 percent through two decades of intense educational reform, and the magnitude of the problem has been consistently, and often willfully, ignored

www.time.com...

www.usatoday.com...

[edit on 9-4-2006 by valkeryie]

[Mod Edit: tag correction - Jak]

[edit on 9/4/06 by JAK]

Seem like perfect candidates for the military... funny how when America needs something "it" happens. An improved economy and education system would lead to independent thinking and critical skills that America currently finds unattractive in the citizenry... sad.

I speak from experiance when I say that there are school councelors that try to talk students into droping out, then go on boasting about the No Child Left Behind act even after you've droped out.

Originally posted by Slash
I speak from experiance when I say that there are school councelors that try to talk students into droping out...

Yup, when I was a senior in high school in 02-03, my college guidance counselor flat out told my parents and me not to bother sending me to college - that I would be better off in the military.

Get this, there was an alternative school right by my High school, my best friend, along with quite a few other people I know started going to this school my junior year. I asked my councelor about it and was told that it was for the handicaped. Okay, my friend has ADD, so they say, but at the same time, I was in a program my freshman year where I was placed in smaller classes and got more individual attention, just like my friend got at the alternative school. I did great my freshman year, my confidence shot up because I never was good in school, yet still managed to pass 1-8th grade with nearly straight F's.
Then my sophmore through senior years, I was fighting with the counselor to get classes changed, and was told that I no longer needed the program I was in the prior year. Come to find out, the program no longer existed at the school, and had been moved to the alternative school... Yet I wasn't "handicaped enough" to be moved to this school. My best friend may have ADD, but he has a higher IQ then I do, I fully admit that. I eventualy got so stressed that my physical and mental health were starting to go down hill, especialy my mental health as I would break down on a normal basis, have panic attacks where all my worries would just flood into my head all at ouce, I'd nearly puke, but ultimetly just ened up breaking down while my peers gave me o_0 looks. So about half way through my senior year, I droped out. Came back 2 months later and gave it another shot, failed again, droped out again. And I asure you, I'm not the only one that has gone through this. I'm not sure how the schools work when decideing what school gets the most funding based on their graduation/failing ratio, but I always thought that dropouts got excluded from those numbers all together, which would mean more funding for the schools and enforceing that No Child Left Behind act. Okay I need to stop here, bad feelings comeing back, sorry. Just felt people needed to see this.

[edit on 9-4-2006 by Slash]

Drop Out Nation is a bit harsh of a title, though I expect nothing less from Time after what they ran front page on global warming.

There are people who drop out because they never see the advantages of graduating and going on to college, either because they were too lazy to do research in high school, never worked on their cirriculum or abused drugs.

Why does everyone care? I'm 17, and I'm not dropping out of high school. The more people that drop out and work at McDonalds, the more job opportunities for me.

When my son was in first grade years ago, we went to his school open house. I remember one thing she told us in a tone of frustration, after remarking that she probably didn't need to tell us in attendance. All students had to take homework back and forth in a folder; if students didn't bring a folder from home, they made one in the classroom. Still, she said, 10 students could not get their homework to and from school, that was 10 out on 30, or about 30%! I realized then that the drop out rate began then, not in high school.

We need to do what other nations do. Test students at around the age of 12 (6th gr); send to either college prep track, general track or special education track. Test students after two more years; again determine track but add on vocational education track. Some countries allow students to discontinue schooling at this time. Test again after two years for diploma, certificate, etc.

No Child Left Behind is ridiculous! A special education teacher at a local high school has to teach college prep algebra to his students. They must master the quadratic formula at the same time he has to teach them how to tell time on a clock face. People used to laugh and say what have they (the Left) been smoking; I ask what is making the Right hallucinate that someone with an IQ of 65 or less can suddenly gain 35plus IQ points and master abstract math.

Not everyone is suited to school.. it does have limits. Some people are actually too smart for school, look at Bill Gates or Michael Dell or other entrepreneurs for example.

But if you are average or less in intelligence it may make your life more difficult not having a formal education in terms of career success. Then there is just the educational aspect, the idea of self development which must be encouraged in all people in order to make a better society and world.

I think it's TV, and the lack of knowleadge of math and critical thinking skills being taught well, or more understandly in public schools. Not to mention fudning in some, that some students will "dropout" just to play the "job hopping game" like, Rappers, fashion models, singers, bands, etc. and other celebrities did. Because those people are seen as "self-made successes"; not to mention college counselors creating more "dropouts" by pushing "math first classes"on more lanuage thinking students.

Plus, some people can't afford to "move up" yet, with prices going through the roof, the blimp, the sky , the O-zone, the Satalite, The Hubble Telescope, Ford Prefect, the Universe, and the Next Dimension.

So students on many levels will "dropout", especially if their latino, asian, or african american. Not to mention drugs, gangs, and teenage pregency.

Originally posted by Slash
I speak from experiance when I say that there are school councelors that try to talk students into droping out, then go on boasting about the No Child Left Behind act even after you've droped out.

Exactly! I had my fair share of suspensions and expulsions but to the agony of the school administration, no matter how many times they told me to just quit or drop out I never did. I refused to. I refuse to let someone who sits in a cush job and paid outrageousely steal my future from me.

Oh btw, that crap they threaten you with about that stuff going on your transcript.....its BALONEY! at least in the US or where I live anyway. My diciplinary record never left that high school once I graduated, actually it never left the school once I transfered and now im about to graduate from college. I have never once had a problem in college dicipline wise, other than I nearly squared of with a drunken instructor but thats a different story.


STAY IN SCHOOL! those jobs for people that drop out. They are going to mexicans who work for less than you do. Besides, how many years can you do a manual labor job before your used up and worthless? it isnt retirement age I can telll you that now.


[edit on 13-4-2006 by XphilesPhan]

[edit on 13-4-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Originally posted by freethinker4356not to mention college counselors creating more "dropouts" by pushing "math first classes"on more lanuage thinking students.

Humbug on most cases; case in point: the computer scientist.

It all goes back to parents and child-rearing. If a kid drops out of school, it's his parents fault. Crappy parents love to blame the education system though. My parents would have never in a million years let me drop out. As my dad said, "Over my dead body!"
I'm 42, but when I lived at home growing up my dad demanded 2 things of his kids - finish school and get good grades – OR ELSE! Yes, somehow he'd make your life wretchedly miserable (like being grounded and not allowed to leave the property for an entire summer - do that and he'd beat your ass; not being given any money/allowance at all - for anything...anything; not being able to have friends over for company; having to be in bed before 11:00pm). This is how my dad was to us kids all the way up to 12th Grade, and you know what? We all turned out successful in life. Good jobs. Good families. Positive outlooks. My Dad was incredibly strict, this was in the days where if you got out of line your Dad would beat you with a belt. Now, don't get me wrong; my Dad was never "abusive". He just took the stance "I make the rules around here, you follow them, and if you give me a hard time, disrespect me, I will kick your ass something fierce." And back then, that was the norm. Not today. I grew up totally afraid of ever crossing my Dad and you know what? It made me respect him. He raised us well.

In today's PC-climate world, we've made it so you can't discipline your kids without "child-abuse charges", "assault/battery charges", "being portrayed as a villain". And that's the problem. Kids grow up with no discipline at all, no respect for authority, they're spoiled rotten with every material need they want (parents love outdoing eachother - "I bought my 16 year-old boy an SUV."). And have no concept of the value of money and savings. And also education. Life is one big party to them. Then they grow up and become unproductive, worthless memebers of society feeling like the world owes them something.

I have 14 neices and nephews (ages 13 to 30). Four of them are drop-outs, raised by my middle sister and her husband who never, ever taught them respect or discipline. But my sister is a f*ck-up to say the least. Hence, she raised a family of drop-outs.

Again, dropping out has everything to do with the parent and nothing at all to do with the education system. The problem with our country is there are alot of people who should not be parents raising kids, period.

[edit on 13-4-2006 by zerotolerance]

If I remember correctly the guidance counselors in high school were always trying to talk the "under achievers" and "troublemakers" into going to vocational technical school or dropping out. Nobody likes rotten apples in their school. All the heads and burnouts in my high school, left after 10th grade and went into Vo-Tech school, which we called "rotten apple school".

Zerotol,

you made great points in your post. My experience and age are similar to yours. Yes, I did at times feel miserable because of having to do all that homework, but it paid off many times over.

I was a TA in grad school and I was amazed at how little the student brought to the classroom in terms of self-discipline. This is about writing lab reports and doing math that makes at least a modicum of sense.

I think the problem is twofold -- it is not addressed adequately (like strict testing and all) in the government, and the other half is in the family.

You are not entirely correct that the govt has nothing to do with it. If it can motivate the nation to go to war, how come it cannot motivate it to excel in class? Sersioulsy? Lack of education is a threat as real as any terrorist attack, or increase in cases of diabetes.

Originally posted by WanderingMind
Why does everyone care? I'm 17, and I'm not dropping out of high school. The more people that drop out and work at McDonalds, the more job opportunities for me.

I hope that you are kidding. A nation that is only good enough for doing menial jobs is done for, and so is your future. No science, no defense, no industry or healthcare.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I refuse to let someone who sits in a cush job and paid outrageousely steal my future from me.

Don't be a fool, jobs in the education system are far from "kush" jobs and are even FURTHER from being "paid outragously." I don't agree with anyone encouraging someone to drop out, but don't be ignorant of the situation those people are in.

Maybe if those jobs were paid better and teachers/admin would care enough to encourage instead of discourage. I think the main thing that's important: DON'T BE A VICTIM.

zerotolerance: spot on. Education starts in the home.



[edit on 13-4-2006 by Street Scholar]

Originally posted by zerotolerance
It all goes back to parents and child-rearing. If a kid drops out of school, it's his parents fault. Crappy parents love to blame the education system though. My parents would have never in a million years let me drop out.
...
This is how my dad was to us kids all the way up to 12th Grade, and you know what? We all turned out successful in life. Good jobs. Good families. Positive outlooks.
...
I have 14 neices and nephews (ages 13 to 30). Four of them are drop-outs, raised by my middle sister and her husband who never, ever taught them respect or discipline. But my sister is a f*ck-up to say the least. Hence, she raised a family of drop-outs.

Again, dropping out has everything to do with the parent and nothing at all to do with the education system. The problem with our country is there are alot of people who should not be parents raising kids, period.

I thought your siblings were all successful in life with good families? Then why all the dropouts?

I agree that parents play a huge part in a child's success. However, you contradicted yourself when you spoke, leaving me trying to figure out what you were trying to prove.

As for the No Child Left Behind, I think that just makes us more aware of the people who don't pass. Its incredible how little you have to do to graduate high school, yet people are still dropping out.

Originally posted by pineappleupsidedown
I thought your siblings were all successful in life with good families? Then why all the dropouts?

I agree that parents play a huge part in a child's success. However, you contradicted yourself when you spoke, leaving me trying to figure out what you were trying to prove.

As for the No Child Left Behind, I think that just makes us more aware of the people who don't pass. Its incredible how little you have to do to graduate high school, yet people are still dropping out.

You need to reread my post.
I said specifically:
"I have 14 neices and nephews (ages 13 to 30). Four of them are drop-outs, raised by my middle sister and her husband".
The drop-outs are my nieces and nephews, not my siblings.
My sister "is" successful. She's educated. Financially secure. But they spoiled their kids rotten and never ever disciplined them. Her kids have no respect for authority at all.
They get away with murder and never ever get reprimanded. If they do bad in school, they don't get punished, get priviledges taken away or anything. My sister was not raised this way. Now, how her husband was raised, I have not a clue......

What I cant stand is how education in primary and secondary school is geared towards one type of learning.

I was labelled gifted at an early age, and continuously every year of school from then on...

what doesnt make sense?

My marks didnt reflect that. Sure, I never failed anything... but I've never gotten a 90 in anything either.

Why? Because I'm a conceptual learner. I learn by concept... not step by step procedure...
I have to know the WHOLE concept before I begin to work out the fiddly bits.

The only reason I passed calculus was because of Mr. Brown. He explained to me how the Concept of calculus worked... instead of what the other teachers were doing, and saying "If you have this, do this."

To which my answer was always, "Why? Why is it done that way... I need to know before I can do it that way. Otherwise, I just performed a task and accomplished NOTHING! Hence, I wont learn ANYTHING!"

The reason they caught on to the fact I was gifted was because I would start designing things while I should have been doing class work. Mechanical drawings, electrical schematics, I began teaching myself things that I was interested in... not what the curriculum wanted me to learn. Quite frankly most of what they were trying to teach me I found WAY too easy, and VERY boring.

So they had my IQ tested...

... I still refuse to look at those results. Why? If its higher than I expected... its a crutch and too much of an ego boost... I'd become cocky.

If its lower than I expected... then it becomes a crutch... an excuse for failure... for me... there ARE NO EXCUSES for failure.

All I know is its high... very high... though I have been warned repeatedly that I have no discipline when it comes to following instructions. I always ask why... I refuse to do anything until I know WHY its being done.

If I disagree with the why... then you just lost my attention.