There comes a point

Where do debates about wars or peace take root the most and in what nation? Where is freedom picked on the most? Where are the most open debates condeming the USA alway's taking root? Where are the " Bush is Hitler " t-shirts worn the most? Where is racism discussed the most and where does the biggest mixture of free thinking people reside? Where is Bigfoot or Area51? Where are most theories about one nation being " EVIL, WARMONGERING, RACIST, GOOD, BAD or whatever " incubated? Where can you put up a personal web page about how you feel and more or less be left alone? Where can you march up a big old highway carrying hundreds of Mexican flags? Which country takes the most punches and still gets back up? AMERICA. When it comes down to it, it is just us. You think some civil rights march is going on in Japan or China which is 99% percent one race of people? Heck no! Take my word for it , I DRIVE to most most states in this big old Country called America, and people of all colors and ideas get along just fine. It's not 100% but then again show me a country that is even 12% of what America is? You think Russia is full of freedom? Ha! I read a few threads up or down that they have called us WARMONGERS? Sheesh! Somebody roll the 80 year stock film of that country. Bottom line, if we were or are so bad, then you'd think most people would avoid risking everything to get here? Here is an idea, go to China and try to respond to what I just wrote, and also try and put down China over there too. By the way, most Mexicans , Gringos, Blacks and so on actually DO get along.............just not in scripted political TV TUBELAND. Now THERE is a true mini " dictatorship ".

So what is the point?

R u trying to point out that America is better than the rest of the world?

A super power like america has great intellectual minds and the forward thinking of the community is what takes it ahead. This is however only possible due to the economy. There may be ups and down however US is the preferred fall back currency..

I think you havnt had the great honor to read the patriotic act or the illegal tapping of phone conversations. Obviously on the note, which you have just so wisely written, I dnt think ull be in any problem from the government, but what if you wrote something about terriorism....Do you think ull be a free man in the so called great country which you are trying to define, by comparing other countries.....

I think what you need to point out, which is correct, that there are a lot of critics of America but that is not towards the community on a whole...it is more towards Bush, whos lies and deceipt are coming out in public. The double standards of this person, who is one of the most powerful person in the world is but nothing less than shame. However it is poor to call him so as he is so shameless a person that it is but an attribute in his character.

In a multicultural society, achieving 100% unity is but only a statistical figure. Tough to accomplish...good on paper, tough in reality....

I am sure there would be few members on this forum from China and i am sure they would be willing to respond to your note?


Anyone from China.....who wants to put in a note to rest the concerns of cellerdweller.

The point however is, that i dnt personally think that there is hate towards the American population, but more towards the president and what he is doing...

I think you havnt had the great honor to read the patriotic act or the illegal tapping of phone conversations. Obviously on the note, which you have just so wisely written, I dnt think ull be in any problem from the government, but what if you wrote something about terriorism....Do you think ull be a free man in the so called great country which you are trying to define, by comparing other countries.....

The " Great honor to read the Patriot act? ". So it's an honor to you or do you really think you are being spied on, and for what? Why would somebody spy on YOU of all people? Do you hate America and have " plans " or something everybody should know? Give me a break.
Those are your ideas, yet here you are freely writing such as I. As for the bit about economy, what of it? You think we lucked out? Think again. You can start your research at the United States Patent Office and go up from there. Maybe you are unwilling to open your eyes to the fact of all of the hard work that it took to make this Nation what it is and you'd rather stick with the " Bush is Evil " bit, but all that requires is simplicity of thought. If you'd like to see modern slavery, visit China. They have prisons bigger than California. Till then, keep pretending the CIA is listening in.........

It is quite evident that sarcasim did not sit well. There is no honor in the partiotic act....and it is a shame that it exists.....

The very phrase "grand strategy'' has a antiquated ring; enlightened modern opinion rejects the notion that relations between the great powers are just a zero-sum game. But this is a group of people who are steeped in traditional modes of strategic thought: Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Hadley and Condoleezza Rice would all have worked quite comfortably for Cardinal Richelieu or Count Bismarck. (Whether they would have been hired is, of course, another question.)

They are, in addition, patriotic Americans who are firmly convinced that U.S. power is an instrument for good in the world. And they all know that the days of the United States as the world's sole superpower are numbered.

They must know it. They cannot be unaware of the statistics the rest of us know: a Chinese economy that has been growing over twice as fast as the U.S. economy for almost two decades now, and an Indian economy that has been growing at around twice the U.S. rate for almost a decade already.

And they surely understand the magic of compound interest.

Please click here for article

As in your country so are there individuals in other countries working hard. No need for me to go through archives. Each and every individual in the society works hard for the benefit of themself and their country

You mentioned " Do you hate America and have " plans " or something everybody should know? Give me a break.
Those are your ideas, yet here you are freely writing such as I."

The answer is in the note "The point however is, that i dnt personally think that there is hate towards the American population, but more towards the president and what he is doing..."

Just for your satisfaction, i am not being spied on, nor is anyone spying on me, nor do i hate americans nor do i have any plans to harm americans. I have never mentioned of any harm to be done to americans. Dnt know where you got that thought from?

About slavery in china, each and every country has it problem. As each and every problem as will be in opinion times change that and so will this be changed.....

Just to enlighten you on some of the mistakes by Bush,

Please click for link

In each and every country there are individuals that have worked hard and are working hard to achieve their optimum may it be for themselves and for their country.

On Patriotic act,

As if it's not enough that law enforcement can now obtain your library and bookstore records in secret and without probable cause, clandestinely search your home without prior notice, and consider you a terrorist for peaceful civil disobedience, the Senate Intelligence Committee wants to expand FBI administrative subpoena authority to obtain all kinds of records without even the semblance of judicial review, and even allow them to get copies of your mail.

Please click here

Interesting to see this in such a great demoncracy as you have defined....

Originally posted by knowledge23
So what is the point?

R u trying to point out that America is better than the rest of the world?

A super power like america has great intellectual minds and the forward thinking of the community is what takes it ahead. This is however only possible due to the economy. There may be ups and down however US is the preferred fall back currency..

I think you havnt had the great honor to read the patriotic act or the illegal tapping of phone conversations. Obviously on the note, which you have just so wisely written, I dnt think ull be in any problem from the government, but what if you wrote something about terriorism....Do you think ull be a free man in the so called great country which you are trying to define, by comparing other countries.....

I think what you need to point out, which is correct, that there are a lot of critics of America but that is not towards the community on a whole...it is more towards Bush, whos lies and deceipt are coming out in public. The double standards of this person, who is one of the most powerful person in the world is but nothing less than shame. However it is poor to call him so as he is so shameless a person that it is but an attribute in his character.

In a multicultural society, achieving 100% unity is but only a statistical figure. Tough to accomplish...good on paper, tough in reality....

I am sure there would be few members on this forum from China and i am sure they would be willing to respond to your note?


Anyone from China.....who wants to put in a note to rest the concerns of cellerdweller.

The point however is, that i dnt personally think that there is hate towards the American population, but more towards the president and what he is doing...

how is getting rid of Bush going to change anything??

Do you think he is actually running the US, do you think he is the REAL boss?

do you think that the other parties can replace him with somebody that is CLEAN?

do you think that the rest of the world does not wire tap phones or spy on their citizens?

the problem is that many people haven't seen much else of the world and they think that freedom is something that most people enjoy.

freedom is disappearing in the US but GWB is not the sole problem, aim at the top and make a real change.

I suppose there are those who actually don't hate Bush, but just hate this whole country. Osama started this whole wagon rolling, and if some of you want to pretend he was too retarded to concieve of such a simple idea then we know whose side you are on and how you more or less feel about everything. Do you think Gore would haved solved or done anything worthwhile if he had been allowed to count " CHADS "? Considering the mass reams of Gore behaving like a MADMAN on film since 911, thank GOD that Human Torpedo of a fella never made it to the White House. Here you are just as I am going on and on with our thoughts on this and a million other boards if we choose. I'm starting to think it must upset some of you who think you are " being watched " knowing in reality you're not.

The bottom line is " WE THE PEOPLE " know about the Patriot act and can read about it all day long if we choose. It was discussed for 2 years on TV and debated in BOTH HOUSES and was PASSED. So much deep dark capers with hidden conspiracies. There are conspiracies all over the globe, just ask Osama and his pals. No thank's to him are we all nuts.

denythestatusquo,

I have never put down the point of getting rid of Bush. His double standards is what I have targetted in my notes. It is but a shame that a person with so much power and responsibility leads his people on fales pretex. I thought leaders were those who one could look upto, however falsehood and misdirection is but a part of this role which he has clearly shown the world.

I am sure youll be in a position to enlighten me and tell me who is behind Bush or is someone else pulling his strings? [A leader for name is like a slave and the downfall is but evident. Living off someone else ideas is but a time bomb ready to explode at each intellecutal discussion.]

Do enlightment me with the rest of the world being wire tapped. Please do provide me links to other countries which are doing this. I understand australia has done something of this. UK i guess would be. Can you please forward me information on China, Russia, Europe, India and the rest of the so called world. I would appreciate the information.

I am sure alot of us havnt seen much of the world. Can you please again enlightment me, with freedom.
Freedom is a birth right and hence, i am trying to understand what freedom are you talking about...

It is quite interesting to see, people who created this scare are in another country, and the patriotic act affects the people of US. quite sarcastic isnt it? that those who were attacked are now being monitored....


Cellerdweller,

Have we managed to put aside the racial % which you raised? If we have good. Lets progress ahead.

About Bush, do you want me to put up a note in bold saying I dnt think people hate americans in general but dnt like bush's policy of double standards and falsehood. I hope I dnt have to repeat myself the forth time on this. It is simple americans are cool, bush's double stand not good.

There are no taking sides here. This is a discussion, on topics which you raised. I dnt know if bin laden got the ball rolling or not, but he has attacked property before 9/11, so i dnt think it started then. Did you go through the link which i provided for the mistakes of Bush? If not i would recommend you too do so, so you will know that the government had information on this and we all know the outcome of the information....

Cant answer if Gore would have been a better person, as we havnt had a chance to see him in bush's shoe and hence to comprehend his decision. You i think are more learned from obvious observation to provide some enlightment on what he would have done or how would he have been as a president. Do give your thoughts as i would be interested to read your comments on this.

This is a discussion forum and in a discussion there will be agreement and disagreement. Different people will have a different view to ideas and i understand when new threads come up as it could be something which has come out of a discussion which is not relevant to that discussion thread and hence another thread. Let me remind you that this thread started because of you and your thoughts. So now we have a million and one thread on this topic due to the thoughts put down by yourself.

On the statement of being watched and tapped, obviously from the statment you have passed displays the total lack of personal privacy. I fail to comprehend your position. On one hand your bragging about the greatness of having almost perfect racial unity with obvious hickup and on the other you fail to comprehend this issue. Isnt this a double stand on the matters of human affairs? I do agree that there would not be that much who are spied upon, but trust is one thing which doesnt exist when you are under such a law....hence i understand the stance taken by few individuals on this forum or around the world.....i do believe that ignorance is kind and appreciate the laughter which you have put in as a sarcasim as you are lucky not to comprehend the significance of this issue.

Cheers

Knowledge23

Do you really think I am going to spend all night answering you and a idea you have that Bush is somehow taking our freedoms away? Race has been a worry as well as major factor of the Patriot Act debate. Get with it. As for racism? Who can escape it these day's? The good news is that it comes in all colors ( excuse the pun ) these days and is abused by all for whatever reason. I think I already explained everything earlier. IT WAS VOTED ON and >>>>>>>>> PASSED.

One more thing, how is it you have any proof of whatyou aledge Bush is up too that the rest of us don't eh? If it was a true PLOT or SCHEME you would'nt know it's name and Congress would not have debated and VOTED on it because they would'nt know about right? I just don't buy the old STARBUCKIES COFEEHOUSE CAPER SQUAD stuff. I have more serious things to think about such as why do liberals alway's wear rectangular glasses and dress llike the cartoon figures from the JETSONS. Answers! I demand answers!

Cellerdweller,

It is upto you if you want to stay awake and find answers to satisfy your own curiosity on this matter. I do have an idea that Bush is taking away your freedom, he already has.

On racism, is your stance changing. When you drive around town in the old country called america, will you be saying that racism, exist but people are
handling it just fine? Isnt this hypocracry? So let us rephrase your previous statement, that racism does exist as a minor percentage in the society and as other multicultural society in the world, with times these issues will be addressed.

I dnt recollect you providing any explanation and did i miss the vote button of on and off?

I have never said what Bush is upto. I have always reflected on history. What he has said. You havnt checked the link yet have you?

I do apologise for keeping you away on your analysis on which you have so kindly shared with us all. I hope you find answers to as to why liberals wear rectangular glasses and dress like cartoon figures from the Jetsons. I hope you enjoy the time.

Thankyou for the discussion and wish you Gluck.

Rgds

Knowledge23

Knowledge23

Yet again you try to act as if you have some inner knowledge that nobody else does. What do you really know about China? My relatives work for the United States Embassy in China. One of her tasks is to gather info on political prisoners as well as to see how they are doing. You don't even have a clue how crappy most of the planet is or which country has loaned the most money to all of these countries. All you want to do is write up a nutty story about Bush ( get in line ) as well as all of the usual tidbits that " EVIL BUSH is doing. Your supposed worry is false and your prefabricated links are none other that what is to be expected. They are a waste of time.
Your vision is very shallow as well as predictable and simple : Bush is the bad guy. What's new about that? Since you are still writing back replies I suspect you have yet to be rounded up by the " secret police ". The reason all conspiracies take place in America is because most Americans are to stupid to see evil in other parts of the globe. Even when they do, they ( like you ) blame Bush. Back to China, why don't you tell me what you think is going on over there? You can Google all day for all I care, but I have 3 up on you there so good luck. Like I said, simplicity thrives in America. Everybody calls Bush Hitler I am sure they puzzled ( like you ) that they are not rounded up and sent to a camp considering thats what Hitler did. Save your links for those who want to live in a land of pretend.

Cellerdweller,

Never have I said or acknowledged that I had some inner knowledge. Dnt know where you came up with that one. But i did put in information which I guess you did not have. About China, it is a country which as others has its own problem. If conditions are that bad, as you have noted and you sound really concerned, let the UN look into it rather than US direct intervention if there is any. Just to understand the task of your relative, why would China have any US citizens as political prisioners? or are they just gathering information on conditions in the prisons? [If you think it is too personal a question, please avoid from replying to this]

Should we be discussing about the treatment of prisoners in Guatanomo Bay or should we discuss about the inhuman treatment of prisoners in Iraq. Some photograhs would be still floating around on this web site in some thread Or do you want to discuss about the KKK or on politics should we discuss about the assasination of the Kennedy brothers? The point is each country has its own problem. Let them solve their own problems it is not a problem of US. We as a global community have UN who has been allocated this task.

The information gathered about Bush is pretty much what he is representing to the world. From the note do i understand that you accept Bush to be a bad guy?

It is correct, that I havnt been rounded up by the secret police yet and hence I have this honor to write to you. Is it your wish that I be rounded up by the secret police? On a fair note, I cant find any problem if they did, because injustice in any form cannot be allowed to prevail and I have expressed an opinion. I dnt think i would turn a blind eye as you are.

About my vision being very shallow and predictable atleast i have some. The reasons why conspiracies happen in America is not because most Americans are stupid not to see evil in other parts of the world. It happens because they think and put logic to events. Looking at other evils in the world is a good comparision but dnt poke your nose in their affairs. Iraq, i think Saddam had WMD or did he have a hand in 9/11 or let me guess Oil? I think lets focus on what Bush has said, the freedom of Iraq's. Since when did the US government starting doing things out of generosity. If they have I would like to know as tax payers money is being used in this war!!

What do you mean by 3 fingers up. I am new to the expression?

As i have sad before, ignorance is kind and hence no need to provide you more information. I think I should go back to the so called pretex world and google around and let you carry on with your analysis which i must say, i have been so unkind to call you from.

Knowledge

Quit twisting situations and trying to be smart about it.

" The point however is, that i dnt personally think that there is hate towards the American population, but more towards the president and what he is doing..."

Those are your words and with each new thread you try to remake what you meant about this or that. On top of that you answer questions that you ask me before I return to this site. George Bush won by one of the biggest landslides victories in this nations history ( 3 million ). The hate you speak of is your hate. I suppose you will conclude we are all brainwashed. You also said that America is only great because of it's economy I believe? Just who do you think created that economy? Russians? You make no sense and this is validated by you high marks about the UN ( which is financed by evil Americans by the way ). Your accusations are silly and you prove this by accusing Bush of evil deeds while overlooking the corrupt UN and all of the deals they made with Saddam. The oil for food was supposed to go to the poor and children of Iraq, but instead was used by Saddam to build lavish Shrines to himself and his spoiled rotton kids. Who has golden machine guns and a personal Zoo in their back yard? All of that money was STOLEN by SADDAM and your heroic UN ( which would not exist if America did'nt finance it ). I'll take Bush over any corrupt leaders you admire. By the way, where are you writing from? What free country are you writing from? Back to that economy you say we all just lucked out on : California makes more money than All of Western Europe, so please please please try to locate a nation that even gets near our economic power. If you keep pushing it I'll have to post a link to the CIA to finally destroy the fiction you keep tossing about.

Cellerdweller,

So from a shallow vision, now I have been promoted of being smart? Is this possible. Make up your mind.

You said " suppose there are those who actually don't hate Bush, but just hate this whole country" Post number 2105121.

The statement clearly states, that I dnt personally think that there is hate towards the american population, but more towards the president and what he is doing....

Definition of Population,

Dictionary
pop·u·la·tion (pŏp'yə-lā'shən)
n.

All of the people inhabiting a specified area.

Click for link

I hope the definition helps you establish that people inhabiting a specific area, constitute to population. To help you join the pieces, people inhabiting the land of US are know as US population.

I hope we can put this aside now.

We are all defined by the actions we do. Lets check Bush's approval rating,

PRESIDENT BUSH – Overall Job Rating in recent news media/nonpartisan national polls

Click for link.

This is the rating at present for the president who won by a landslide victory.

On the history of bush's victory, some information,

Here are some highlights of Troxler's comprehensive analysis in today's Times:
CLAIM: Kerry really won Ohio.

There are still 155,000 or so uncounted provisional and absentee ballots. If by some miracle Kerry got almost all of them, he would win. A miracle. [Bush's Ohio margin of victory was 136,000 votes.]

Furthermore, there also were 93,000 "spoiled" ballots in Ohio that, had they gone to Kerry by a miraculously large margin ... uh, well, still wouldn't have been enough.

CLAIM: A voting machine in Franklin County, Ohio, recorded an extra 3,893 votes for Bush.

This is perfectly true, and one of at least two serious voting machine mistakes around the country. When the results cartridge of an older-generation machine was plugged in to the counter, it reported almost 4,000 extra votes for Bush, when only 638 people had voted in the precinct.

At the risk of being labeled part of the plot, I want to point out that they caught this obvious mistake. You can't "stuff" the ballot box. There is a signed, independent record of how many people voted.

CLAIM: Electronic voting machines in Carteret County, N.C., mysteriously "lost" more than 4,500 votes - most of the votes cast in the county election!

This one is true, too, and disturbing. According to the Carteret County News-Times, the county's machines counted only the first 3,005 votes and didn't count the rest.

The Carteret screwup didn't change the presidential outcome, but a couple of state races were close enough to be affected. Besides, the standard of "no harm, no foul" is not good enough. But I would point out that even this mistake was obvious and immediately detected.

CLAIM: Voting patterns in some Florida counties were suspicious because Bush got many more votes than the number of registered Republicans

Please click for link

I am sure youll call me a hater of Bush. But I am just putting in points which I have read.

It is but evident a clause that a strong economy is obviously due to the people but also due to the reforms of the government. One without the other doesnt exist.

On UN debt, I think the information tells more than I need to comment on,

Graph of US vs. Total Debt to the UN
Tables 1996 - 2005
The following table and chart illustrate the contributions owed to the UN by all member states and the contributions owed by the US. As the US continues not to pay UN contributions in full, the US is responsible for approximately half of the UN debt.

Please click for article

Quite interesting to note, on your comment that the UN would not exist if US did not finance it. I think that is correct, I think once they paid their share, then they can start with the rest of the financing.

Are we not discussing about China any more? and should we drop the topic of Guantanomo Bay or KKK and even Kennedy brothers and the famous photographs of Iraqi prisioners. The reason for me asking again, as you have accidently missed out on your thoughts.

A bit more on racism,

WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON?
The terrible toll of racism in the U.S.

By Sharon Smith | March 19, 2004 | Page 7

HALF OF all Black men in New York City can’t find a job, while Black teenage unemployment stands at 37 percent nationwide. These statistics show a crisis among Black Americans that should be setting off alarm bells in election year 2004.

Yet even John Kerry, the candidate whose party’s voting base includes the vast majority of Blacks, has issued barely a sound bite. This should come as no surprise, since Black lives, Black votes and Black rights have been devalued since the Founding Fathers.

The original U.S. Constitution permitted slavery and counted Black slaves as three-fifths of white persons in determining both Congressional representation and taxation, embedding racism in the very foundation of U.S. society. The institution of slavery was abolished only through Civil War, a bloody second American Revolution that cost at least 600,000 lives.

But racism outlived slavery and flourished for the next 100 years in the form of Jim Crow segregation, in which the majority of states, from North Dakota to Texas to California, made it a crime for Blacks to intermingle with whites in all walks of life--from hospitals to cemeteries, lunch counters to phone booths, military service to marriage.

Please click for article

The point at the end is, we can sit here dishing it out about the goods and the bad of different countries. That takes us now where. It is important to highlight the difference of opinions and I cannot find any backup to the claims you have made.

The reasons for me asking you the same question is either you have not provided an explanation or backing to your claims or because I disagree to what you say. I have provided links to back up my statements.

You said "If you keep pushing it I'll have to post a link to the CIA to finally destroy the fiction you keep tossing about."

If this is what you think is a good cause, please feel free to do so. However, if you think that I am threatened due to that statement, it would be wrong on you to presume so. I would recommend you to forward the information to the owners of ATS before you forwarded the post to CIA as the material on this website would be copyright protected. However, they would be the best people to guide you.

Rgds

Knowledge23





[edit on 8-4-2006 by knowledge23]

[edit on 8-4-2006 by knowledge23]

Debated on, voted on and passed. That is the BOTTOM LINE and the people have spoken. BTW I don't bother with thinkers who use linkers. Use your own head for once.

As I have mentioned before, what I have said I have backed it up.

It was an interesting conversation and I wish you well.

With Best Regards

Knowledge23

Actually you did'nt back up anything. For instance the silly idea that America is only powerful because of it's economy. WHA? That's kind of a strange idea considering don't you think? You think we just " lucked out " . Do you feel the same about our trips to the moon or creating the " WEB " which we all now yap on pure luck too? Like I stated earlier, Californias economy alone creates more wealth than all of Western Europe combined. This is a fact. Luck has nothing to do with it, hard work does. It is not Americas fault if the rest of the world cannot innovate enough free thinking to create their own products.

Cellerdweller,

Read the posts. Youll find the answer. Do you even read any post or just decide to reply without reading. Give it a read and thankyou for the conversation.

Hope this helps.

With Best Regards

Knowledge23

I would'nt waste a second on links YOU PERSONALY hand selected to fit your agenda. I want you to name one single country that allows more free exchanges of ideas than America. Also name for everybody here the supposed wealthy country whose economy can even come NEAR to America. Go on and name it so everybody here can once and for all move there and live the happy life of not being spied on etc, etc,. YOU CAN'T. Like I said, I don't read agenda driven webpages. I have friends that actually set-up some of those sites only to laugh when a liberal pastes it up! Links are for lazies.