What is making us NOT fight back?

boatphone, i know the old days were awesome...but times have moved on. i dont know what timeframe your exactly living in, but i doubt its this one. lower social people have better chances? not really, maybe back in the day, but not now. hell keep cutting away at our education, what do you expect. corzine demolished a program for top students completely. it was a program for the best in the state of NJ, free too(except for like food and stuff). he said it was something that wasnt useful enough and could be cut. really...i guess education really doesnt matter above building sidewalk...

This has been a wonderful read....to all of you who posted on this thread...with the exception of ludaChris.....Great job!!

I believe that there are several underyling psychosocial reasons for why we the American people have not stood up and said "NO MORE!!!"

First over the better part of the last century we have indoctrinated our children to believe the idea that government is good that government is wise and that government is looking out for you. If you dont beleive me watch some of the 1940's and 1950's government education movies.

Second over the last thirty years we have gotten increasingly more and more lazy as a society and yet are working more and more hours. Go figure. C.S lewis in his book Screwtape letters wrote something that while he may not have inteded it to have meaning politically it does. He was writing as two demons speaking to eachother and the first one is telling the second(less experienced demon) exactly how to take down good christians(demons= government christians=people). He says dont attack them head on...instead keep them soo busy trying to do good that they will be too tired to worship God and eventually because they arent in contact with him they will stray from the path. This is exactly what I beleive the American govnerment has done to the people over the better part of the last three decades. By removing themselves from our daily lives and keeping us Busy working so that we can buy the latest IPOD or TIVO or Plasma tv that we dont have time to think about government.

This process has a two fold effect as well. Those that feel they dont have time to think critically about the govnerment or whats going on in the world feel that WE the people who do are wierd hence all the name calling(nuts conspiracy theorits crazies etc). They cant understand how we have time to think about this stuff therefore not only are we thinking about things they arent we are different because of it. And im sure that i dont need to explain how humans deal with things that are different. So the Government(really doesnt matter what country its in) has with one fail swoop and with most of not even noticiing removed themselves from our accountability and made anyone who tries to hold the government accountable or say that what the government(s) are saying isnt true a crazy/terrorist/etc...

Thirdly, we as a species used to be curious...it was curiosity that first pulled our ancestors out of thier trees and allowed "us" today to have the conversations we are having. We have lost our curiosity because we have been told that all the major mysteries have been figured out. We know what gravity is we know what light it we know what disease is. We know what fire is. We think we KNOW so much. And we are told, quite subtly so as not to attract the notice of The Socreates and Platos of our time, quite frankly that we do know it all so go home and watch tv. Work to work so that you can buy shiny things cause there is nothing intersting happening out here. And by and large the people have done just that. Stuck thier heads into thier holes cause its much more comfortable that way.

I really liked the analagoy(spelling) of 1 in 20. I feel that it is quite correct. And i feel like one of the 19 who wantts to be a 1. We cant complain forever and i dont think we have time to wait on the other 19 who refuse to take of thier blinders for fear of thier masters whip.

Unfortunetly work walk out even national walk outs are likely to have no real effect. Because as posted above all they have to offer is a free i-pod and 95% of workers will return to work. And the 5% of us left( which ironically is prollly the same 5% whove been trying to raise awarness) will be wrangled up and kept somewhere nice and secure...for national security of course.

And yet Violence is not the key either. i trully beleive that any more violent revolution will simply perpetuate the eventual rise of a curropt ruling class. Look at the French Revolution The American Revolution any revolution for that matter. Look at all the revolutions in Africa...all bloody...all eventually ending in a curropt authoritarian regime. The time has come for humanity to make the decsion of wether or not it is willing to accept its role. We are either Animals or we are Sentient beings. We cannot continue this charade. IMHO the only way that we will be able to bring about any positive change is to bring about positive change first within our selves and our community.

Yes we could go and blow up a couple federal building wether they have people in them or not is of little consequence. And yes people would notice...and maybe something good would come out of it...but all that does it perpetuate the cycle of violence. The next step evolutionarily, spiritually, and politically is not a violent one. It should be one where instead of the poor taking from the super(and wrongfully in most cases) wealthy, and becoming the new aristocrats, we instead find ways of cooperating together to not only better ourselves but our enviroment and eachother as well. And this is once again in my honest opinion the only way we will ever see the kind of world we all think about and wish we had.

A new path has to be trekked out and it wont be easy. But if people are serious about bringing about REAL change not just a change in names and faces we have to think about trying a new method. One that hasnt already been used time and time again and proved it self to be rather useless in the long run.


On a side note, With the advent of super advanced nanotechnologies and genetic resequencing and enginerring eventually this megalopolis of an Industrial complex will no longer be needed. We the people will be able to just say no we arent going to pay and we arent going to fight you like we have in the past. We can do without you. But this is just a pipe dream that i hope some day will become a reality cause it would defintally make saying no to the government easier.


El senor pom pom rides again

How about this. Run for Senate, Congress.

Intruduce a bill that makes it madatory for all government employees to be scanned with the most advanced scientific lie detection systems the world has to offer.

When all the senators and congressmen vote "no" Then the truth will come out.

Is there anyone out these running stress indicators, body language comparitors, etc on our leaders now? I read about reverse speech. Most people thought it was a joke. But remember the human mind is very complex and our psycological sciences are about 200 years behind the times.

Very good post Elsenorpompom. People are definitely too busy working, being bombared by media etc. to really think about what's REALLY going on. Plus politicians are really good at acting like good guys who care; but they're really just damn good actors. Also people are sheeple who want to believe what their leaders tell them. Bahahaha.

Originally posted by Dock6
Another tool in the Zionist agenda was to destroy the family unit. Men traditionally were heads of families; were the breadwinners. They gained their sense of identity from this. By promoting Women's Lib and encouraging women to leave the home for work, men no longer felt like the head of anything. Yet every ship needs a captain, and there can only be ONE captain. A family is a ship; one leak and it's disaster.

Wellll, you had me and then you lost me.

Dock6, I am assuming that of your 1 in 19 groups, most of the 1's will be male? They make the best captains, is that right? Surely no female could be the best leader out of a selection of ten males?

Frankly, I see the "family" as a device through which many Americans are controlled. Well, the imaginary nuclear "family unit" as you say, is as much a tool of the powers-that-be, as is zionist-feminism. Families which are led by one male, are more easily economically victimized. To put it crudely, it's easier to control your plantation if you can whip the father/husband and then have him go whip his family for you. Also, you can control a much larger plantation this way.

IMO, it makes America great is that we can have a black female Chief of Staff (even if she is a complete tool). I think it's really cool that she's able to hold that office because it says that Americans are willing to accept women in powerful positions.

In fact, in line with this thread asking why people don't "fight back", I'd say that the moderating influence of females is probably the best insurance the world has against multiple men trying to "fight back" against an invisible economic force (which they do not fully grasp) and thereby dying vainly or being incarcerated, away from their families.

Further, I'd say it is the female force which is keeping Earth from complete annihilation by males.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Further, I'd say it is the female force which is keeping Earth from complete annihilation by males.

baseless comment. lets be frank, women dont have some edge over males for heart thus saving the world. men dont have some edge over women either. why dont we stop fighting over the worthless issues they want us to fight about, and start focusing on the problem. rich big business owners with no moral grounds to do anything except benefit themselves considering they dont even belong to this nation. globalisation, its something that is really destroying us. regardless male or female ownership, its destroying us.

First...Godservant. You have blatantly and repulsively advocated bombings of innocent civilians. You need help before you hurt yourself or others.

Next please just answer one question

WHAT PART OF THE PATRIOT ACT TAKES AWAY CIVIL RIGHTS?

A Very Good thread Good job by most posters.

However, If you read the pages its easy to see that even here at ATS the governmental do gooders...or spys ....or what ever you want to call them are at work as well. Makes me wonder if they accually believe there oun crap there tryin to peddle.

It seems most here Agree that the Western wourld is in decline, as for as human rights are concerned. In the name of "Fighting Terrorism" all western governments have givin themselves More rights for survailance, searches, and seisures, And the abillity to arrest someone, and not charge them with a crime, and to hold them indefinetly this is unfortunate, but if you don't agree, watch out or the may electrify your genitails. The really sad part is that these same governments might accually be behind the terrible terrorists strike against there own people, but that is another story.

Now what can be done to change this direction......
1. VOTE for anyone who is not repubican or democrat, these parties for some reason do not repersent the people who vote for them, the only people who will do this are not in office now. This is the best way to shake-up our government.

This would be all good if we could trust the voting machines.....

Bottomline people if you were to rise up against this government you will loose everything you have worked for...house, car, furniture, electronics, 401k, stocks....

However what happens if the US economy crashes...lets say Ford, GM, do go bankrupt....taking along with them 1000's of other business that they and there workers support.....we could wake-up one day with Huge unemployment, and Many people across the USA losses the things I listed above. How the government thought America should be a consumer drivin economy instead of a manufacturing economy is beyond me.

Housing Bubble busts....what happens when your $120,000 home is now worth $40 or $50 k instead.

As long as there is some economical growth here, people will not demand a change in mass, and they certainlly will not fight for a change untill they have nothing left to fight for.

The presant government we have is WAAAAAY out of touch with the general population.....Most citizens were against the patriot act renewal...we got it anyway.

But truthfully as long as the cable tv works and the cellphones work, and the pizza arrives in 30 minutes or less....things are A O K

ok im finished ranting now....
my $.02

I just read this thread to Dock6's post and have to comment. I have been looking to articulate what I have been feeling for so long and have yet to be able to or read someone else voicing what I have been yearning to put into words.

Bravo!

That is the best post or article on the state of America I have ever read, I am going to print this and show it to everyone I know.

You have voted Dock6 for the Way Above Top Secret award

AWsome post!, this is at the core of all the problems. People lost fight.

Originally posted by crmanager
First...Godservant. You have blatantly and repulsively advocated bombings of innocent civilians. You need help before you hurt yourself or others.

Next please just answer one question

WHAT PART OF THE PATRIOT ACT TAKES AWAY CIVIL RIGHTS?

You first need to realize that some of us are able to accept the FACT that WE are under attack. You may not see the unnecessary TOXIC chemicals that are going into our food as BOMBS against the American people, so it is understandable that you do not believe it is RIGHT to desire the destruction of those people as well.

Would you let your neighborhood CRACK dealer determine the ingredients of your families diet? NO.
But you know damn good and well that DRUG DEALERS with much deadlier chemicals are in control of the Fright-House.
A chemical that have been BANNED throughout the rest of the 'industrialized' world is injected into our Dairy supply, simply because the SOURCE of the chemical is in control of your diet.

A day doesn't go by that our media isn't warning us about the potential and the effects that the "bird-flu" would have on this nation, but the USDA does not only FAIL to conduct test for MAD-COW disease...
they are actually trying to deny some meatpackers the right to test for the disease.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'
What does this prove?

I think the main reason most of us are not fighting back right now is because the approach we would have to take on our 'enemy' would be treated as terrorist activity by the same murderers we would like to kill. And so far any and all efforts to expose the destruction we are all being subjected to has resulted in one or two people being persecuted for threatning 'national security'. Do you expect me to sacrifice my life to make the American people aware of the issues they have been ignoring for years?
Also the fact that none of US are willing to deal with the consequences of biting the hand that feeds us POISON. We would rather accept the fact that we are going to develop cancer from the food that we eat, instead of making the effort to provide a better source of nutrition for ourselves.

For the people who are 'outraged' by others implication of destroying the source of our own demise, you have to realize that your attitude of remaining in the prone positon while this experiment is being conducted on you is repulsive to some of us as well. It is not as if we could reveal the amount of infection that is pouring through our society and reach some kind of 'common ground' with the primary source of our disease. This government will either aim to eliminate or demonize anyone who tries to expose the truth about their intentions and desires.

It is almost impossible for the typical American to understand and acknowldege that we are being murdered by the government they believe is providing them with 'freedom'. But some people do understand the cost associated with the illusion of freedom.... we are lab-rats with no recourse.

What good are 'civil rights' when we do not have the luxury of living as if we have HUMAN rights?
If animals were being treated like 'the people' are, PETA would step in and try to salvage our lives. So far, we are not fortunate enough to possess that type of representation.... or we do not deserve it.

Is it morally wrong to desire the death of the people who are eliminating ALL of our children's future? If so, you can ride on that high horse as long as you want, or at least until the infection riding on it's back consumes it's spinal cord as well.

What part of the PATRIOT ACT or HOMELAND SECURITY is responsible for protecting the people from being DESTROYED by this government?

It's not a matter of what is stopping us from 'fighting back', it's a matter of how did we ALL develop a slave mentality in a world that is saturated with solutions to the biggest problems we face.
I'm not a very smart man, but when I see something like this
, it's hard to blame the government for treating us like a disease.
If this is how we harness and utilize the pure eternal power of WIND....
we are obviously IGNORANT as hell.

Yeah, this is really weird actually. Something is going on.

The world is just falling apart.

Conspiracies, losing of rights really slowly, secret groups etc.

The good people have to unite, do something not just stand there!

Most of the reason things are allowed to happen are because of bribery, we all accept it each and every day.
Ok example:
You wake up tomorrow and eat breakfast, how many of you honestly had to scramble to get $0.45 to get an egg, toast, and cup of coffee for your breakfast? No one, thats part of the bribery, make your life seam so easy that you wont want to change it and face having to scrounge for once in your life.
Right now its a matter of steal whatever is not nailed down and throw the dog a bone to keep it quiet in the mean time, and thats what they are doing. Its called keeping the public subdued, do what you want as much as you want but make sure they are never so angry or deprived as to overthrow you.
Now also it goes back to "how do you boil a frog" which most of you should know by now, you never do everything at once, you take your time and slowly build up untill its to late for anyone to stop you.
I have said this for the hundredth time now:
Protesting does not work when you face an enemy who cares nothing about what you think of them or how you feel. How can holding a sign stop someone who doesnt care about busting your rear in public with thousands of cameras rolling? AND THEN GET AWAY WITH IT OVER 10,000 TIMES!
I gave a list to what people can do and it IMMEDIATLY killed the topic so here I go again:
#1: same ol same old (keep doing what were doing)
#2: Revolution (no not the protest but like in the first american revolution)
#3: run away and hide
#4: Give up and start supporting them
#5: massed combination of the above minus #4
So no matter how you look at it, if we make a move to stop them its going to cost lives, shoot its already costing lives, well over 100,000 civilians have already died because of this. So if we try and stop them, or actualy manage to somehow through divine intervention make progress to stop them, they will undoubtedly start up the police state/gestapo and put in into full swing. So its a calculated risk, but which way are we going to go about it?

Now back on page 1:
Deltaboy
Good gods, You need to see a shrink badly, that guy blew up civilians and for WHAT? If it was to retaliate he didnt do a darn thing, it only sped things up. How can blowing away children stop anything?
What you said sounds more like what a spy/FBI/CIA/DHS/NSA/gestapo police person would say to get someone to talk then have them busted.

I think what delta said is why I have little trust for people on the forums, but you know what all? They are already watching every last one of us so what the heck right? We are already on the list so lets get our kicks now before they rev up the engine.

Giving this topic more thought maybe its plastic that makes us more passive?? Plastic has been around for many decades but as far as I know no major studies have ever been done to examine the impact it has on humans...if any.

Or are we really passive compared to the past??

Perhaps its floride or maybe the combination of floride and aspertame...We American injest Tons of chemicals every year. Who knows what the impact of all these chemicals have on our brains.

Look at the Revolutionary War....there was a breaking point where the mass public would not take it anymore, then they openlly revolted against England. They gave up everything in the hope for something better, they had a CAUSE that they all believed in, and leaders to direct them...IMHO Americans are not to that point yet.

There was also a time in 1860 that Americans did it again, called the Civil War.....If you think our current government is taking away rights now look what Lincoln did in the civil war Link so yes this sort of thing has happened before so its not suprising that its happening again.....VOTE people rebel against the REP. and DEM. parties say good-bye to lifer politicans...we need new blood in governement and possibliy this trend of curtailing citizens rights will end.....but since its also happening in the UK and Australia it seems to be some sort of Global thing.

Not holding my breath

IMHO this whole immigration issue could spiral out of control thus destabilizing the entire western world....or just and excuse to complete the circle for a full blown police state, if it turns violent....there not building the camps for nothing....we haven't been building so many prisons for nothing

We have been suppressed... we have been molded.... we have been put into fear... we have been lied to... we have been pained... we have been tortured... we have been all these things. That is why America won't fight back, the people act as victims.

To be very honest, my motto in life was quite simply...one person can make a difference or as Margaret Mead's infamous quote states:

Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.

In AU, last time I looked at our Constitution, it stated we have a representative and responsible Govt, this means ideally we, the individual have the power, we vote and elect our Govt. Unfortunately, that is an ideal...and not the reality. We have disparities within electoral boundaries. Why at the moment, Tasmania's vote (with small population) has more weight than that of Victoria. We now can be grateful for the introduction of the 'one vote one value' system. This gives one person's vote its true value. Bearing that in mind, it is still not 100% accurate. Anyway, don't want to bore the heck out of you -> so moving on...

To my knowledge the US has 'first past the post electoral system' so first in best dressed. Was Bush or Gore first past the post? Highly unusual circumstances, questions of manipulation and fraud...US people were demonstrating at Bush's inauguration. It made no difference! There was no commission into the election, nothing! Now if this question had been posed in any other country, there would have been a re election, for eg the Balkans, Serbia & Montenegro etal. There are people who continue to stand up for their rights, challenge Govt, here and in the US...but does it make a difference?

The Patriot Act has further eroded individual rights and freedom of speech. Democracy is an illusion. I don't know about anyone else but I can tell you, I am so depressed with the situation. My motto no longer preserves me. We have new terrorism laws in AU that further encroach into our civil liberties...but we accept this for the collective good. Now in AU, we dont have the luxury of a Bill of Rights....damn!! but would that make a difference anyway?

Nobody here wanted the GST...but we got it regardless! WTF?? Nobody wants the Industrial Reform the Govt has through the back door enacted...but that's what happens when you have a Senate majority...another damn!!!!!

OMG I am having a rant!! I feel totally powerless. I try to make my vote count, I boycott products/organisations, I spam Govt and it doesnt make a difference!! Nothing changes and I will be very suprised if it does.

OMG I am going to hit 'post' button very quickly, or I might delete this..

Be forewarned, be careful how u make noise and do it in a group! I dont think you want a Minister in Qld ringing the Premier and saying 'she' is concerned about a 'random'. You may end up in a mental facility. Those staff are gagged and even when your family ring to find out information of your whereabouts, they are not permitted to disclose anything. You might be diagnosed with a mental illness and medicated heavily and released as a unit... and so no longer a problem.

It isn't denial...or complacency, it is accepting the reality that the world is too corrupt and the powers that be can do whatever they like.

1. Fear
   
2. The wrong motivation, the majority are upset because they can't play that game, not because it's unjust and self-defeating
   

On top of that few would like to fail AND be considered psychopaths by the entire world, which is why violent retribution is extremely rare, much to the disappointment of the establishment, because whenever you see a terrorist attack, it's usually THEM, see oklahoma city, 9/11, bali, etc. people are imho, much more peaceful (to a fault) than they're given credit for, save a few countries around the middle east - guess why the west (the elites, not you) is drooling with excitenment over the iraq war, the iran crisis, afghanistan and what have you, it's because they can pretend that their control & destroy agenda is of any use there.

Finally, BEWARE of the one-in-twenty ideal, it's at its heart about authority, it may work, but it's THEIR turf ! never forget that, they're masters at ab/using authority.

[edit on 6-4-2006 by Long Lance]

A lot of great words - most of you see it too, some don't sadly.

On the idea of running into politics - my 18 year old is a good man. He has much integrity and honesty. He wants to get into politics. I told him last night after showing him this thread, that he is that 1 in 20. He would do good in government, IF it is possible for a GOOD person to climb the political ladder that is.

Originally posted by crmanager
First...Godservant. You have blatantly and repulsively advocated bombings of innocent civilians. You need help before you hurt yourself or others.

Next please just answer one question

WHAT PART OF THE PATRIOT ACT TAKES AWAY CIVIL RIGHTS?

What?????? I do NOT think I am for the bombing of innocents - that is just crazy talk. Where did I say that I am for bombing innocents? I may have agreed that violence has been a tool that made some actually listen, but no - I believe I said that Timothy McViegh was wrong - children died and I am NOT for that ever!!!

What freedoms have we lost due to the Pariot Act? How about the Fourth Amendment for starters. Here is a link to get you started. However, please do not stop there - do some research. There is much more.

If you don't think anything is wrong today, I cannot make anyone see it. I know some of you think we're crazy conspirists, I used to think the same of my grandmother.

Then 911 happened. After that 'official' investigation, I knew something was wrong. They did not have answers to a few discrepencies in the story. That began to open my eyes to what was really going on. My grandmother was right afterall, not crazy.

Something is wrong today, but with pretty flowers on our yards and shiny new cars and lots of food and extra liesure stuff available to common people - no one wants to see it.

Well I do! And so do many others. I don't want to see it, but our children will have to live in the world that we made for them. Isn't that enough of a reason to look at things a LOT closer?????

[edit on 6-4-2006 by godservant]

ok, we're all in agreement that Dock6 has something. the problem is that his post was on page 1 and now its page 4 and noones gon furthur than simply raving about his post. the real power IS still with the people (for now at least) and who's to say that we cant demonstrate this? what if we choose a day later on this year and just come out of the woodwork to state governments, alert the news stations, all have one issue that we all support simultainiously from across the nation; remind these bastards that they work for us and we're paying for their big houses and nice offices.

1 out of 20 people is a leader, eh? ok, ill accept that for lack of a better analysis. however, who's to say that the sheep wont get up and lead if we tell them to? look around this forum. everyone here is ready to get down to business. it occurs to me that ats is the HOME of the ones. we're the people who dont buy the crap that everybody is trying to sell us.

everyone seems ready to stand but we've all got our own ideas. let's focus our energy, gather our "sheep" and get moving. lets find an issue, set a date (im all for october 13. it gives us ample time to prepare and its sorta symbolic as it is friday the 13th) gather people, get the media's attention, and send a message.

I agree!! October 13 seems a bit far away, but preparation is good.

Hiowever, what is the plan? What are we to do and where?

Meanwhile, I have signed up at www.freedomforceinternational.org.... I was contacted by phone last night and a meeting has been arranged to meet with me. It seems they are an 'action' group. I'll know soon.

It is time to do more then talk, type or whine.