Subconcious controls physical reality too?

Last night I came up with an interesting thought.

In dreams, whilst you remain unaware that you are dreaming, you must abide by the rules of the dream. It is only when you realise you are dreaming that you can control your destiny. Perhaps this same notion applies in the physical world? While we believe that this is reality, we must abide by it's laws, but once we wake up from this reality, we can break free. Take flying for example: Many may have tried to see if they can, but surely they still believe that this is reality, thus fail. If they were to truly believe it was an illusion perhaps it might work.

P.S. - Please think about this seriously before attempting to do something that may cause you or others harm. IT'S ONLY A THEORY, and I do not wish to be responsible for any harm you may do to yourself or others as a result of failed attempts to test the theory.

Do you have any suggestions on how we can "wake up"? We're already awake, and unlike in dreams, we have no idea about what the next level of "wakedness" could be. What information do you think could be drastic enough to make people realize that they are 'asleep'? (However that is possible).

It's kind of like being in 2D and trying to imagine what 3D is like. Sure, you know what 3D is like, because you exist in it. Now try to figure out where the heck the fourth dimension would go .

I've heard of people coming across this kind of information in a few rare cases, and they usually kill themselves immediately.

[edit on 4-4-2006 by Yarcofin]

I believe that in some way it does. What if reality is based on a conscious entity observing it? If no conscious is present to record the memory of an entire universe then in a sense it didn't happen. There was no one to perceive a start to an end. So I think in some way everyone's consciousness is having some affect on the creation of our observable reality. Although it may be very small and negligible. Also, a dream is not very different than the real world in the sense that our brain is just creating it's own sensory input instead of actually receiving a photon or sound wave. Our brain creates it's own reality but I'm not sure how much our brain affects the actual physical reality. I'm not sure that it matters either. If my brain tells me that there is a guitar in front of me that i'm holding and playing yet no physical guitar exists, does it matter? We only need to think something is present or occuring for it to be real, it does not necessarily need to actually happen, just like our dreams. I don't know how much that helps or adds but it's a few random thoughts from me.

"I've heard of people coming across this kind of information in a few rare cases, and they usually kill themselves immediately."

That sentence just caught my eye and made me think.. what if the fourth dimension had something to do with death? I don't know how that would work or if its even possible but then again i don't think anyone does.

Now that really sparked my interest! Good Thread!!!
Which brought me to the Story in the Bible, when Jesus walked on water, and Peter saw Him, and when the Lord identified Himself to Peter, Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water as well.
As soon as Peter took his eyes off the Lord he started sinking!

I was saying something similar about this & what you stated also on another thread. I feel we have many more abilities we are not even aware we are able to do! We have had a life time to be transformed into thinking we are merly human! How many have heard that statement said to us.
The Bible says, I can't stress this enough, Our Words Are Power! And Even Our Very Thoughts Can Come To Pass!

Excellent viewpoint you stated My, It is incredible how we can control our dreams isn't it! It got me to think, how much I can even control & stop pain from happening. Ffor instance dropping a huge log on the big toe, or slamming it in the car door for instance. OWIE lol Commanding that Pain to go in Jesus Name on numerous circumstances like that, gave immediate results!
For us to limit the capabilities with other area's of our daily lives is something we all tend to do without thought, mainly because it was how we were taught from the day we were born.
Reteaching ourselves, the fundamental spiritual laws addressed even in the Bible would drastically change the way society lives as a Normal Household!
We are so much more than what we usually are capable of doing! Don't you think the way the world is going, we should start believing in who we really are, I bet if we all did join together in doing so, we really would move mountains! Well maybe at first ant hills!
Once again, excellent post, I'm going to broden my horizons even further!
Thank You for that lift!

I thought it was interesting that I seem to have different rules in my dreams than apparently other people do. For instance I do not consider myself in control of a dream just because I am flying in it. Of course if something seems natural in a dream maybe the dream rules change for you.

I just don't know if my subconscious mind has the same rules as the dream world. I had thought one time what if I accidentally created this entire reality I am in and I am causing havoc to it without hardly even noticing by thinking about the slightest odd thing. Of course the more I thought about that, the more I thought that led down the road to some real craziness.

Just because you are flying doesn't mean you should be in control of your dream. To take control of the dream you have to be consciously aware that you are in a dream. Like a few nights ago I became lucid because a sentence that I was saying in my dream was "but this is all just a dream." It completely woke me up and I went over to the table of people I was near and told them all they were part of my dream. I asked them to keep reminding me, no matter what was happening or if I forgot, just keep telling me i'm in a dream. I almost lost it because everything began to get dark, which normally means I'm about to wake up with sleep paralysis. I've gotten to a point where I can tell in my dream when I'm about to wake up but I often wake up with the paralysis, fun stuff.

I'm still not sure what you mean by different rules. Your brain is basically making up what it thinks is happening. Or substituting it's own sensory information. The extent of your control is based on your level of awareness and ability to not get wrapped up in the dream again. I still seem to forget or slowly slip out of dreams once I become aware, wish I could keep it longer.

Hi cedar,
I see that happens to you too with waking up as soon as we start controlling our dreams!
I think it's because we get over excited about doing so! Maybe if we learn to control our emotions in the dreams, we will stop waking up so suddenly!

The book `Illusions` by Richard Bach tells of a story that revolves around a concept similar to this.

I 'woke up' in reality once. My brain almost cracked. This is not really something I'd wish on anybody. (I recounted this and some other offbeat experiences at www.bewilderness.com btw.)

Author Jane Roberts via Seth has a good deal of really great writing on the subject of personal reality being... subjective. And ... changeable. Worth a read.

Dreamland

I'm thinking this is a topic more suited to the Dreams & Personal Predictions forum, though I know that can seem rather subjective at times.

If anyone disagrees with the move, please don't hesitate to U2U me. I'm human and make mistakes, and it's okay to disagree with me on anything.

Dream on, friends!

Majic

I already stated that I did not consider myself in control of a dream just because I was flying in it. I haven't studied what other people dream about and do not know if everyone routinely flys in their dreams that are not lucid. The reason I connected flying with lucidity is because that seems to be close to realizing in a dream that "hey this can't be real so it must be a dream." I've done many things in lucid dreams including changing the entire realm of reality I was in. I once had a problem with waking up out of a lucid dream. That problem may have only lasted a few seconds of actual time though.

Just in case someone thinks I'm dreaming about flying in an aircraft, that is not what I'm referring to. I'm talking like in flying as if you can will your dream body around in time and space as if that is natural. I remember chasing after a helicopter in one dream and it didn't seem lucid. Of course maybe there is a fine line here between calling something lucid and not at all controlled.

[edit on 10-4-2006 by orionthehunter]

Hi Red,
You may find this interesting, it was a link from CoasttoCoast about NDE & Dreams and it following through into the awakened state!

They noted a link between it happening more with people who also had NDE experiences!

An interesting article to add to what you said!

Would love to hear more on your experience, unless it is to personal, or to
dramatic to share!
Angel news.bbc.co.uk...

Mytym, very good. You are correct. You cannot walk on water, read peoples thoughts, move objects, etc. only because you think you cant. Being able to have total faith that you can is something that most cannot accomplish. Mind over Matter. If you believe you can - if you tear down the walls of reality - then you can do anything.

Like the example Angel gave about Paul walking on water. The last part of that is what I love. The part when Jesus takes his hand to raise him up and says "ye of little faith" I believe some bibles even go further with it and state something along the lines of ye of little faith you could throw a mountain into the sea.

WE are capable of SO much more than we think we are. I think that each generation becomes less and less capable.

Who ever came up with the lines - "you can do what ever you set your mind on doing " and "mind over matter", knew what they were talking about.

The thread title seems at odd with the discussion topic.

1. Yes, the unconcious (not the subconcious--there is a difference) does create 'reality' as most people know it. Read Jung.

2. Yes, there is a more real reality 'behind' this reality. The buddhists are the experts on this. The only way to know this truth is to experience it directly. You can call it enlightment, but it is possible to experience it without achieving enlightment.

I have actually experienced the more real reality behind this one, but only for a fraction of a second. I can't say it changed my life because I withdrew back from it. Still, it has changed my outlook on this world. It is an illusion. The only things that are real are the people (and possibly other life) and the relations between them. I see it as a big test. Will you be fooled into an addiction to 'maya'?

Mrs D, I like your last sentence especially, it reminded me of what my Dad always said to me, almost on a daily basis. Everytime I would get frustrated if I had a hard time accomplishing something!
"Never say Never" he would say to me, and now, I find myself telling my kids over & over that same quote! It use to aggravate me when I was little, but it gave me determination & perseverance as I grew into adulthood!

Not long ago, it came in real handy, when a few people kept telling me, I would never pull off something that I was working so hard on, for about 10years I had nagging negative words thrown at me almost every step of the way. My Dad's words came back each time to me with such force, and I was so greatful for his encouragement. It helped me to look past the discouraging words, and allow me to believe in myself & press on harder & more determined even when things looked impossible at times for me to accomplish!

Now those who discouraged me, come to me to build up their confidence & support! It's rather simple I tell them, just Never Say Never!
It too helps in moving mountains!

Yarcofin:
The best method I can suggest to wake up would be to convince yourself that this isn't real. Easier said than done, I know. In fact in recent weeks, perhaps unconciously, I am beginning to notice this belief filtering in to my default behaviour. Fortunately, (or perhaps unfortunately) it hasn't been put to the test just yet.

AngelWings999:
What you say is absolutely spot on in my opinion. Believing is the key! Now I personally don't place too much faith in the Bible, but the example of walking on water you provide is the perfect demonstration of the power of belief.

orionthehunter:
I think there are many stages between subconcious dreaming and conscious dreaming. Many things in my dreams are completely absurd when I reflect on them after waking, and I wonder how I could not have noticed this whilst in the dream? I think an alternate self exists in the subconcious dreamworld, which can explain this. Even something as foreign as flying can seem perfectly normal. However, once you become lucid, in my opinion, your familiar self returns.

Being lucid doesn't automatically mean you can control your surroundings, just that you are aware of their nature. What you are able to control in a dream whilst lucid can range from nothing to everything, and I think it all comes back to belief. If you believe you can do something, you can. I'm guessing this same logic can be transferred to the physical world and applied in the same manner.

rizla:
I'm sure you are right with the use of unconcious rather than subconcious, however, the idea came from the parrallel I saw between the physical realm and the astral realm, thus for familiarity I chose to use terms that we can all relate to.


I too, struggle to overcome the problem of often waking soon after becoming lucid, but here are a couple of techniques which have worked for me in the past to overcome this:

1. Once you get the feeling that you are waking up, try rewinding back to an earlier point in the dream where you were fully lucid and asleep and replay the scenario. This has only happened to me once but in the replay I was able to advance well past the initial wake up point.

2. Once you begin waking, keep your eyes closed and take notice of the images that enter your mind, and you may find that you can pick up the dream where you left off, or even begin a new lucid dream.

reply to post by mytym


I have been having many dreams lately. I just awakened from a dream and started some research which led me to you here at this post.

First off, let me say this. I think you are on the right track here, but I may can provide more information, if you keep an open mind (even to my point of view and religious beliefs). I understand that not everyone believes the way I do and do not speak to offend anyone with anything I say here. However, I also know that some people know the truth and others continue on living without knowing there ever was a difference.


I'll start with my dream. Well, the part that matters anyway, but first a small fact about me that is key to understanding what I am trying to explain.
I have NEVER been scared of dogs in my life. I think it's odd that grown men are scared of DOGS. Okay, that aside, but IN mind. I will continue to tell you what I experienced.
In my dream at a certain point, I became fearful and I was running from someone that was trying to kill me. I escaped them, for a time, but MORE fear came upon me. A DOG was chasing me. I leaped giant leaps to escape the dog by clinching it's jaws in mid air and throwing it off of the road and over a cliff (which I almost fell over myself due to lack of footing).
Ok, it's important to note how I felt the fear before knowing what (dog) was coming.... This part may blow your mind IF you can actually grasp what I am trying to tell you. I'll skip straight to the point.
Some of what you've said is correct. You can overcome fears and learn to somewhat control your dreams, or at least how well you do in them. Day dreaming actually helps (forced dreams, dreaming while awake). If you try to jump in a hole, you will land over it. If you try to jump over it, you will land in it, etc. Now then it's important to remember the 'rules of the dream'.
There is only one rule of thumb to dreaming and that is this; IF you overcome your fear of something or increase an ability to do something, the 'dream makers' / 'narrators' MUST recompensate your 'Fear Level'.
I hope I did not lose you there! Yes! I said someone else is there with you creating your dreams and I awakened to this 5 minutes ago and I am still exited about it!
Recall how I said I was never scared of dogs? Recall how I said that first I became a little more scared and THEN realized it was a dog? Whilst explaining my dream to my wife. I realized that more had happened in my dream than I could initially realize (The dream was supposed to be forgotten?). Just before the dog and just before the fear, I remember in my OWN voice what I THOUGHT was me thinking to myself in my dream! However, it was NOT me! Through concentrating even harder, I can remember two figures in my dream as I heard what I thought at the time were MY thoughts. The one said to the other, "That's not enough" and "add more" or something of that nature. I KNOW I heard (or thought if you will), "That's not enough". The one was explaining to the other that I did not fear dogs!
So what happened next? Recompensational fear. I became greatly fearful, and whilst 'two-step-jumping' down this road turned and saw the 'dog'. It had human eyes but larger and the dog had a chest bigger than any body builder's chest ever could be. Simply put, it was a rather larger and more frightening animal of sorts, with weird hypnotizing bluish eyes.

All in all these are MY thoughts about all of it.
We've NEVER been alone.
These are angels, Holy AND Fallen, fighting for our souls.
Just like in the movie Contact as they use her father to keep her comfortable, they use our OWN voices (On the thought level. How you hear yourself in your head when you think.) to create or manipulate our emotions.
Fear is used alot to control us and especially in our dreams.
Temptation and fear are used on an inner-being level to coerce us through them.
Am I alone here?

reply to post by Yarcofin


It's the level of fear most often that makes us wake up.
That should lead you and I both here to a more logical question though...
How is it that the dreams are often timed just right to the sound of the alarm clock going off when you DO awaken from it?
You can control yourself somewhat in your dreams, but you can not control the entire dream. Dreams serve a purpose or we wouldn't have them. Someone, somewhere wants us to dream what we dream and IF you listen closely to yourself telling someone else of your dream while it's fresh on your mind, you may hear them speaking with YOUR voice!

reply to post by Tha_Watcher


So you never awakened due to fear in your dream?
Fear is the information needed to do several things in one's dream.
It navigates you through the entire experience or process if you will. It can awaken you and make you feel thankful after it's gone.
For instance fear of being unable to find something or someone, fear of not being in a certain place. Those types of fears are fears that lead you through your dream.