War On Christians sham

This whole War On Christians thing has got me angry. I am Christian, and see how only Christian holidays are recognized by the government... how can they say they are being discriminated against?

I think the whole thing is a sham to make the group who supported Bush feel persecuted.

Is the war on Christians? NO! It's on Iraq. So shut up.

[edit on 4-4-2006 by Greeneryrocks]

Your question in Board Questions & Business brought me to this thread after I looked up your posts.

Why was my thread deleted?
Why was my thread deleted? I didn't swear or anything.

I know your a new member on ATS, so here's a heads up. The line quoted below will get you a warning from an ATS Mod.

You edited your's, so I'll edit mine.....

If you still can, go back and edit it out.
It's not a very Christian thing to say. :shk:


Back to the topic at hand........

I'm not a Christian, and I don't see a war going on against them either.
I see a war going on against a government that wants to control the world's energy resources. A government that wants to control a region that is mostly non-Christian.

I think the world would be a lot more peaceful if America could reduce it's dependence on foreign energy imports.



EDIT: removed line from quote.

[edit on 4/4/2006 by anxietydisorder]

If the rule is no characters representing swear words, then I guess I will remove it. But for the record, the fact that I believe that we should follow the basic rules of human decency that Jesus taught is what makes me a christian, not adhering to conservative moral codes commonly associated with western christianity. I don't think Jesus would have a problem with what I said.

if there's anything to the "name it and claim it" philosophy, which simply claims that if you want something, confess and believe, you will get it, well, this could very well be the beginning of the "war on christians" and well, the christians could actually be bringing it on themselves, by confessing and believing their persecution.

this is one of the things that bugs me about this....

the other thing is that there are many, many christians in this world that are truly being persecuted, and it seems to be that these american christians just don't seem to know just how good they have it. they deminist the pain and suffering that these truly persecuted people go through on a daily basis, more than likely all more for political gain than anything else...

Thank you for saying this. I too have been dumbfounded by their claims of persecution. Why do they feel persecuted? Because they can't put a cross on the state building or some such. They completely ignore the separation of church and state and insist on having their religion everywhere. Not only that but they also look down on other religions as being "wrong". They seem to believe there is only one true way. Now if you want to talk about persecution, waht about how the Christians view pagans? They call us satanic, evil, etc. and I sure have a number of friends who have been threatened, had ceremonies interrupted by cops, and are the targets of alot of hate. I live in a very small Southern town and I'm Pagan. Everyone here literally, is a Baptist. They're very nice folks. But I have been warned not to let anyone know I'm Pagan or my life could be in danger, or I could be run out of town or...?
Why do I have to hide my religion for fear of my life, while Christians complain that they can't put the 10 Commandments on a federal or state building and having all of their hoildays celebrated in the mainstream. And why do I fear for my well-being here? You got it, the Christians who live here believe witches are evil and should be killed, just like they quote from the Bible.
Freedom of religion in this country? I think not, not for all of us anyway...

Interesting is it not Forestlady,

Persecution as in the modern term; everyone has been persecuted for what they believe in one way or the other. Persecution on a massive scale as unto death for what they believe. No I do not think we have seen persecution like that... yet.

Since you are proclaiming to be pagan you would know the cross and any form of it is not even a Christian symbol only proclaimed to be. you would know this so I have probably told you nothing new.

Since you know the cross is not even Christian I must ask are these people who want to put these symbols on state buildings or some such; are they even Christians or are they only proclaiming to be?

When I look at the state buildings I see nothing but pagan statues, symbolism, and architecture.

They call you satanic, evil, etc. and have threaten, had ceremonies interrupted by cops, and targets of a lot of hate. The Christian that I know; knows that their fight is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Christian that I know hates that which is evil, hates the sin, but NOT THE SINNER. The Christian I know Loves the sinner as in the person. AGAIN it seems the people who are doing this to you are only proclaiming to be Christians and know not what they do.

A lot of people are nice people. evilness has been killing people with kindness for a long time. "Killem' with kindness!"

As for displaying the 10 Commandments on federal or state buildings and having all there holiday celebra... . wait a min the Christian I know; knows that most of those so called holidays are pagan holy days, and displaying the 10 commandments with pagan idolatry would be an abomination. So AGAIN are you confusing people who are proclaiming to be Christian and may not know what they do?

It looks like the pagans and these people who proclaim to be Christian actually have a lot in common and the grand deception of it all is. Is to put both sides against the middle. Are you sure the pagans and these people are not on the same side? looks like order out of chaos if you ask me; serving the same master.

Gamesetmatch, I had to give you a 'way above', for your clear, simple statement of clear, simple truth.

Countless Anti-Christians who post here, complaining about Catholic, Pagan and other traditions, THEY CLAIM are Christian, also like to flip, and ask Christians to 'concider' Pagan and occultic traditions as a 'better choise'.

There is a war on Christians, and like all wars, the first casualty is TRUTH.

Catholics, Pagans and Occultists are constantly being corrected as to what Christianity isn't, "they" do know the difference, yet keep repeating The Lie.

Anti-Christians on ATS will defend things like human sacrifice as a subjective, cultural choise, yet "judge" Christians as "judgemental" when they "decern" the practices as wrong. This sort of childish (evil?) bias is rampant on ATS and the real world, as are the (knowingly false) claims that Christians only imagine it.

I have never known one Pagan that told a Christian theirs is a better choice. I have, however, had lots of Jehovah's Witnesses, Chrisians of other ilk, etc. pound on my door at 9:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning and try to tell me that their way is best. Pagans, on tlhe whole, do not believe in proselytizing.
Nor have I ever seen anyone on this forum or anywhere else for that matter, that defended human sacrifice.
I am not an evil person and Suzy, I resent that you have in effect called me evil. I have a different religion, so what? Does that mean me and my religion are evil? It is obvious that you really knkow nothing about Paganism.
Setgamematch, I don't know any Christians who know the things you say they do even though I have some Christian friends.
The last 2 posts are perfect examples of what i'm talking about - Christian paranoia when at the same time they judge other religions as evil. I know many fine people who actually follow Jesus, I'm fine with them. But it's the ones like you Suzy, who insist that I and my religion are evil, that really lfrustrates me. No matter how many times anyone has ever explained the facts about Paganism to you, you still insist we are bad and evil. Isn't that being judgmental about someone else and their religjion????
If you really followed Jesus's path, you wouldn't be judging me and calling me evil. My Christian friends are fine with my Paganism and I'm fine with Christianity, mostly because I feel that they actually honor Jesus's teachings, as do I.
Why can't we all just respect each others religion?

-Forestlady

A conspiracy against Christians in America? What a bizarre idea.

Anyone who thinks Christianity is threatened in America should talk to a Laotian Buddhist monk or African medicine man who's had a few Assembly of Godders or Mormons bouncing around his back lot. American missionaries cause no end of trouble to the faithful of other religions in poor countries, recruiting 'converts' to their version of Christianity through bribery and coercion and breaking communities up as a result; they do as much damage to local customs and traditions in this way as the Chinese have done using different methods in Tibet.

American Christianity is unbelievably powerful, despite the constitutional separation of church and state. If anyone should feel conspired against, it's the followers of other religions, or of no religion at all.

A: I'm a Christian
B: I couldn't care less.
C: Why did I post....that is the mystery.....

A lot of the Christian "Religion" is simply brainwashing. People need to get out of church dogma. Study your Bibles Christians! Get out of the "Religion" frame of mind and get into a Spiritual one. God does not hate sinners! Let me say that again. God does not hate sinners!

Those of you who would condem homosexuals, prostitues, or even pagans have a lot to learn about Christianity. God loves ALL people. Don't go about telling people how they are going to go to hell because they don't believe what you believe. That is not what Christianity is about. Christianity is about the love of God. It is about how God loved ALL people so much that He gave His only Son to die on a cross for their sins.

Jesus said to spred the Gosple (good news) to all the world. He never said to condem all those who believe differently than you. Spread the good news. If the peolpe are not willing to listen, then go about your business. It is not your choice for others to believe. It is an individual's choice to live however they choose. Let God handle the judging.

And yes, I am a Christian!

I couldn't have said it better myself darkelf.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

You tell me if there isn't a war with christains. a christians ideal lifestyle would be a pecacefull, garden of edan life, with no problems......when that happens tell there's no war.

But that's the point the above posters have been trying to make. Christian people throughout history (Well... at least the last 700 years or so) have been doing all they can to convert other cultures to their religion. Ever heard of a little war called the crusades? That was started by Christians. They couldn't handle the fact that Muslims controlled Jerusalem. And what about the obsession with the conversion of the Native American people to Christianity that started as soon as C. Colombus discovered america and lasted until the late 1800s?

I mean, come on. Christians are the largest demographic in the U.S. of A. today. Hell, there's even an "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance! I don't see an "under Ganesh" anywhere.

Originally posted by Ride the Storm
But that's the point the above posters have been trying to make. Christian people throughout history (Well... at least the last 700 years or so) have been doing all they can to convert other cultures to their religion. Ever heard of a little war called the crusades? That was started by Christians. They couldn't handle the fact that Muslims controlled Jerusalem. And what about the obsession with the conversion of the Native American people to Christianity that started as soon as C. Colombus discovered america and lasted until the late 1800s?

Jesus said to go into the entire world and spread the “good news”. The “church” changed that to go into the entire world and convert everyone to their brand of Christianity.

Originally posted by Ride the Storm
I mean, come on. Christians are the largest demographic in the U.S. of A. today. Hell, there's even an "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance! I don't see an "under Ganesh" anywhere.

The founding fathers were deist, not Christians. They believed in a traditional God, just not Jesus. They are the ones responsible for putting the “under God” on our money. This concept eventually found its way into our pledge. Most Americans don’t even know who Ganesh is.

If there is a war going on it is a war OF christians not against christians...especially here in america... where some are not christians at all but what i like to call....
HYPOCHRISTIANS... these are the christians that preach one set of values and act totally opposite of their proclomations. This practice that hypochristians use is what I call....HYPOCHRISTINSANITY!!!!.. Fortunately this is probably a minority of actual christians ...but unfortunately they seem to have the biggest mouths

As far as American christians being persecuted.. of course they are going to try to make themselves out to be the victims......Can anyone name ANY other religion that goes out to actively convert people to their religion.. besides Christianity(in all its sects)?


It is these few loud mouthed hypochristians that probably have alot of money and pull with politicos and media outlets through their group affiliations such as;
"focus on the family" and soooo many others that i could list them all day.
Groups like these are extremely well funded and even encouraged to scoop up federal resources as noted :www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_143960.htm

My point is that these groups have ALOT of resources and can easily tip the medias viewpoint so that the "Christians" are the ones being " persecuted".
When in reality it is these groups that do more of the attacking then anyone IMHO.

[edit on 16-5-2006 by TONE23]

[edit on 16-5-2006 by TONE23]

Originally posted by TONE23
Fortunately this is probably a minority of actual christians ...but unfortunately they seem to have the biggest mouths

Siiiigh...I wish I could tell you you were wrong. What's sad is that those with the big, hypocritical and offensive mouths are the ones that get media coverage, while those who go day by day, speaking loudly but practicing what they preach, are ignored because we have this fascination with people falling from their position. We love to hear about failures, but not successes. Just watch the news; if we enjoyed good news more than bad, news agencies would report it to increase their ratings. Instead, we like to see others suffering or screwing up.

Can anyone name ANY other religion that goes out to actively convert people to their religion.. besides Christianity(in all its sects)?

Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gnostics, New Agers, Atheists, Evolutionists, Gaia worshippers.

My point is that these groups have ALOT of resources and can easily tip the medias viewpoint so that the "Christians" are the ones being " persecuted".
When in reality it is these groups that do more of the attacking then anyone IMHO.

Whew, I can disagree with this point, though! There has been a semi-silent war over our culture for the past 50 years. Slowly but surely, America's culture has been ripped away from what it had been, morality changing, principles shifting, aspirations adjusting. In the 80s, Christians started to speak out against this movement vocally. However, conmen saw opportunity in this, and we had the huge televangelist scandal that gave all Christians a black eye, broken nose and knocked out most of our teeth. It has only been recently that Christian leaders are stepping forward again and changing this silent culture war into an overt one. The big difference between today and the 80s, though, is that these leaders are practicing what they're preaching. There are, of course, a few exceptions, and we all slip at times, but overall, there is a solid Christian base (solid meaning non-hypocritical) out there fighting this fight. As a result, the media and the cultural opposition have had to use a different tact in discrediting the movement: victimization. Look at this thread, and even your statement. Christians aren't the victims, we are, and they're being mean. We're just trying to make everyone happy, and these mean Christians keep wanting to hurt people's feelings by saying things like there's right and wrong and stuff. It's like the two kids sitting in the back seat of the car. One keeps moving into the other's space, poking them quietly, and being a pain in the butt...Then the other reacts, and the first feigns shock at this sudden unwarranted outburst.

thanks jungle jake... i didnt really see it from that perspective... and i must apologize because my target WAS the hypochristians (the minority) and not the true christians(who are too busy living their faith to spend alot of time in front of the media).

We love to hear about failures, but not successes. Just watch the news; if we enjoyed good news more than bad, news agencies would report it to increase their ratings. Instead, we like to see others suffering or screwing up.

i have to agree here 100% bad news sells....and its a shame

quote: Can anyone name ANY other religion that goes out to actively convert people to their religion.. besides Christianity(in all its sects)?

Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gnostics, New Agers, Atheists, Evolutionists, Gaia worshippers

I forgot about jehovahs witness, but the other ones i didnt know went on active conversion missions.... ill research into that more later..but for now ill take your word for it.. as im sure your being truthful and honest

Whew, I can disagree with this point, though! There has been a semi-silent war over our culture for the past 50 years. Slowly but surely, America's culture has been ripped away from what it had been, morality changing, principles shifting, aspirations adjusting. In the 80s, Christians started to speak out against this movement vocally. However, conmen saw opportunity in this, and we had the huge televangelist scandal that gave all Christians a black eye, broken nose and knocked out most of our teeth. It has only been recently that Christian leaders are stepping forward again and changing this silent culture war into an overt one. The big difference between today and the 80s, though, is that these leaders are practicing what they're preaching. There are, of course, a few exceptions, and we all slip at times, but overall, there is a solid Christian base (solid meaning non-hypocritical) out there fighting this fight. As a result, the media and the cultural opposition have had to use a different tact in discrediting the movement: victimization. Look at this thread, and even your statement. Christians aren't the victims, we are, and they're being mean. We're just trying to make everyone happy, and these mean Christians keep wanting to hurt people's feelings by saying things like there's right and wrong and stuff. It's like the two kids sitting in the back seat of the car. One keeps moving into the other's space, poking them quietly, and being a pain in the butt...Then the other reacts, and the first feigns shock at this sudden unwarranted outburst.

Most of what you say here i can agree with but even the non hypocritical ones tend to get over zealous and think that its their way or no way... I guess what im trying to say is that even though the christians are the majority in this nation they are NOT the entirety.. What your perspective is of the "ripping away" of american culture.. i like to call making room for "Other" views. And it just goes back to this IMHO if you dont like something dont do it...dont stop others from doing it just because you dont feel its right...Of course this philosophy doesnt work with things like theft, murder and rape and such...but im sure you realize thats not my angle.. im not saying that we need anarchy.. but our nation does have a separation of church and state for a reason.. ala.. first amendment which bans the govt from endorsing any religion.
So really if theres a war.. its the christians who started it by feeeling threatened in the first place am i wrong?
If i am wrong believe me its nothing new..lmao
WHen in reality there is nothing for them to really feel threatened about.. i just think alittle more open mindedness is needed from all sides on the matter.

[edit on 16-5-2006 by TONE23]

Whew, glad I looked at this thread again!

So really if theres a war.. its the christians who started it by feeeling threatened in the first place am i wrong?

Yes and no. It would depend on how you define war. The 9-11 commission came out with a statement that those radical Islamic terrorists were at war with us, but we weren't at war with them. So the question is, did the war start when the terrorists started blowing up Americans and American buildings/equipment, or did it start when we finally declared war back?

I'm actually glad you mentioned that things like theft and murder should not be permitted, because those issues are a front in this war. I consider abortion murder. As such, what kind of person would I be if I stood idly by as state sponsored murder took place when I do have the power to make a difference in that respect? I believe the use of eminent domain in order to close down tax-exempt churches to replace them with condos as both theft and an attempt not to share the culture, but to remove an element of the culture in order to replace it. Again, do I stand idly by?

Another issue would be gay marriage. This one is interesting, in that Judaism established the marriage covenant, but the state integrated that religious concept into itself. Now, we Christians and Jews are being told we have to give the state control over our religious covenant. Our religious covenant has rules, but the state doesn't like all those rules, so they want us to change our religion to accommodate the current culture. And some are. The reason for the freedom of religion clause was due to the state sticking its fingers into religion, not the other way around. Yet, today, that has been turned upside down, where the state is sticking its fingers into our religion, but at the same time is saying stay the heck out of our governmental business.

There are many other, smaller issues. However, like wasting paper towels, a few cents eventually can amount to a significant cost.

Whew, glad I looked at this thread again!


im glad you did too...lol

Yes and no. It would depend on how you define war. The 9-11 commission came out with a statement that those radical Islamic terrorists were at war with us, but we weren't at war with them. So the question is, did the war start when the terrorists started blowing up Americans and American buildings/equipment, or did it start when we finally declared war back?

lets start here...earlier i was purely referring to domestic culture war...lol... but im glad you brought this up from the larger, global view. I would definately have to agree that the "radical" wing of the muslims..(not the mainstream) did declare war on the west.(and quite honestly im dubius of that aswell). But lets face it, the war between christians and muslims is anything but new...aka the crusades.
As far as the 911 commision goes the only thing IMHO that their reports are good for is kindling for my evening fires. But my stance on the entire 911 issue is better left for another day. the fact remains that america was attacked on 911 and that was a call to arms for the christians and many other americans that day.
From a domestic standpoint i can see why, since the christians have always been the majority in this country, you guys have felt like your lifestyle has been torn asunder. You must understand that I am not christian(although I do believe that Jesus the single most important person to ever walk the earth) and i believe that all religions, if practiced through love and truth and kindess... etc, are but different roads to the same destination. Hope i didnt lose you there Anyway, While I may be extremely tolorant of other peoples religious differences, not everyone is going to have the same level of compassion that I do.. Pleae dont think I am talking about you.. im quite enjoying this debate To finish my point; There are plenty of "enemies" of christianity from foreign and domestic; and also from both internal and external forces. but like jesus would say and im paraphrasing.. 'let go of the rocks and let the river carry you" theres more to it then that but im sure you more then get the drift. some things you cannot fight and must make room for.
Now , what IM saying make room for, IS NOT abortion and the death penalty and war... but gay marraige....well... IM married so i personally dont care what anyone does in their bedroom..as long as its not with MY wife..lol... you must remember that god gave us all free will and that means for the better or worse.
And it is not up to us to "save" everyones soul and IMO. It is up to each of us to have the freedom to save or damn our own souls as we see fit.... Now im not saying it is ok to EVER damn someone elses soul..at least without their complete compliance... but thats just the way I live.

I believe the use of eminent domain in order to close down tax-exempt churches to replace them with condos as both theft and an attempt not to share the culture, but to remove an element of the culture in order to replace it. Again, do I stand idly by?

Absolutely not, I also believe that the new eminent domain laws are absolutely corrupt and for the complete benefit of the wealthy against the poor and also religious institutions aswell.

Another issue would be gay marriage. This one is interesting, in that Judaism established the marriage covenant, but the state integrated that religious concept into itself. Now, we Christians and Jews are being told we have to give the state control over our religious covenant. Our religious covenant has rules, but the state doesn't like all those rules, so they want us to change our religion to accommodate the current culture

let me continue this on my next post im out of characters...lol