Religion is not the big killer. Masonry is.

Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by Hobbes

I've not seen such a thing in any lodge I've visited - and the list is getting rapidly lengthy. So this is where I will proclaim you to be a liar with an agenda.

guess again, here let me prove it to you with some pictures

www.thegoldenreport.com...



www.thegoldenreport.com...


www.thegoldenreport.com...

So you calling me a liar?
Where is your crediblity now?
Eye and piramid all in one, I guess that is a coincidence also

especialy that it represents the god's of egipt.

So might you explain to me why the eye is on the piramid, since you said that you dont have such simbols and you called me a liar.


[edit on 20-6-2006 by pepsi78]

Hey Pepsi
I am knew to this board, but one thing I can assure you is so many symbols are found everywhere, and since masonry is such and old and established fraternity many symbols do come from masonry, but not because a mason put them there or because masons as a secret sect came to together to put the picture of an unfinished pyramid with all seeing on it just for fun or any other reason. One could argue it is Illuminati (not that I even want to touch on that arguement). One could also say that the pyramid represents structure within a society, and the all seeing eye refrencing the eye of "god" watching over all. Many reference, but hardly any really stick.
CKR

Originally posted by pepsi78
maybe Trinityman can explain?

Of course. (Super) Trinityman has an answer for everything

I would make the following observations on those pictures. Bear in mind that I do not know what was in the mind of the artist.

1. Its art.
2. Its in Eilat, within a stones throw of Giza (OK, a strong throw )
3. It's not in a lodge room, its in the middle of the street.

All that ever been said about pyramids is that they are not used within masonic symbology. But theres nothing stopping masons from using pyramids, just as there's nothing stopping non-masons using pyramids. Its called a Theme. Use your common sense - in an organization that uses stonemasons tools as symbols of morality, don't you think the greatest building project in the ancient world might be of interest to us?

Maybe the artist thought the all-seeing eye in a pyramid was masonic? Maybe was making an ironic statement? Maybe it exists in a side order somewhere that I don't know about? Who knows.

And really... who cares?

Originally posted by pepsi78
Albert pike, morals&dogma

You keep saying those words. Even if Pike wrote that Masonry is a religion, how does that make it so?

I mean, I wrote that you are a terrorist. Are you one?

Or, are you still claiming that you 'just know' that Albert Pike is of some great importance to the fraternity?

Originally posted by pepsi78
Why did you join the forum, to keep the secret? this is a conspiracy theory forum.

Seems to me a conspiracy theory forum is the perfect place to find members of a "secret society" And whats wrong with a little secrecy anyway? Even colege sororities and fraternities have little secret rituals of initiation. People love to have special groups they feel they belong to from simple things like fraternities to major groups like the Masons. And whats wrong with oaths? Did you not pledge an oath to be an American?

Wanna talk about a secret society, try the government... now THEY have some realy BIG secrets!

Then why the secret?, since it wont help the world it would besomething negative, every thing has a negative or a positive, it's either left or right.

What kind of logic is that It won't help the world so it must be negative...SHEESH

I'm not the one who joins secret sociaties,

Maybe you ought to try it before you knock it.

I would say masonary is different when people dont know what they are joining, so I'm really doing this for others, so they would think twice before joining, I dont even want to convince you , because I cant, but I can convice others who think masonary is in total compability with crestianity to think twice before joining.

Not being a Mason, I am sure one of you out there will correct me if I am wrong in this, but as far as I know membership into the order by invitation only, those that are invited are pretty sure what the are getting into! Being involved in many charitable events I have seen many examples of the good that the Masons do, especially for kids programs. It is not hard, especially with the internet available today to find out the what the orders are up to.

But then I understand you are a terrorist? I guess that explains your position well enough

Originally posted by pepsi78
So might you explain to me why the eye is on the piramid, since you said that you dont have such simbols and you called me a liar.

Probably because the artist thought it would look nice.

I still call you a liar, until you produce some proof of the 'lodges' you've visted that contain such symbols. Remember, you said:

Originally posted by pepsi78
i saw lodges with the piramid and the eye toghether glued, there are numeros drawings in lodges on the dors on the sealing with the piramid and the eye bolth toghether.

Well?

Originally posted by Trinityman
Use your common sense -

Brother, seriously... stop giving our secrets away.

Originally posted by RockSalt
It’s a shame so much time and effort is used trying to change the mind of someone who will no doubt never be swayed form there ignorant thoughts. They will just think what they will no matter how much evidence is there to show them that there wrong.

True but personally watching the replies from Masons gives us non members a better understandlng of their true nature. So the terrorist is actually failing in his attemp to discredit, rather making me think of joining

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by pepsi78
maybe Trinityman can explain?

Of course. (Super) Trinityman has an answer for everything

I would make the following observations on those pictures. Bear in mind that I do not know what was in the mind of the artist.

1. Its art.
2. Its in Eilat, within a stones throw of Giza (OK, a strong throw

)
3. It's not in a lodge room, its in the middle of the street.

All that ever been said about pyramids is that they are not used within masonic symbology. But theres nothing stopping masons from using pyramids, just as there's nothing stopping non-masons using pyramids. Its called a Theme. Use your common sense - in an organization that uses stonemasons tools as symbols of morality, don't you think the greatest building project in the ancient world might be of interest to us?

Maybe the artist thought the all-seeing eye in a pyramid was masonic? Maybe was making an ironic statement? Maybe it exists in a side order somewhere that I don't know about? Who knows.

And really... who cares?

I would have to agree with you trinity man. Not always is something diabolic, or intended for the wrong use. Besides even if the pyramid on anything religious or governmental happens to be Masonic, how in the world does having a pyramid on anything make it a conspiracy, or for that matter kill anyone I've never heard of any masonic pyramid killing anyone. Or any masonic symbology for that matter.

Originally posted by zorgon
Not being a Mason, I am sure one of you out there will correct me if I am wrong in this, but as far as I know membership into the order by invitation only, those that are invited are pretty sure what the are getting into!

Actually, the opposite is true. We do not issue invitations - rather, a man must come of his own free will and accord, and ask to become a member. Though you have the right idea - who would approach such a group, without doing their homework, first. As such, the candidate has a good idea of what they are getting into.

That said, in my jurisdiction you must have the recommendations of two current members to petition a lodge. Most brothers take that role VERY seriously, taking every opportunity to make sure it is a good fit, lest a poor sponsorship reflect badly upon them. Again, a well-prepared and informed candidate results...

In the odd case that a man wants to join, but knows no current brother, he'll probably contact a lodge via email or phone. A brother or two will meet with the candidate for at least a few months, getting to know the man before deciding whether to sponsor him.

Once sponsored, the candidate goes through an interview - it should be called a 'question and answer session', as that is what most of it's time seems to be focused upon.

Furthermore, our rituals themselves contain warnings and admonishments about the nature of our fraternity. If someone somehow got to this point, and was still unprepared, they are given multiple opportunities to withdraw.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by pepsi78
maybe Trinityman can explain?

Of course. (Super) Trinityman has an answer for everything

I would make the following observations on those pictures. Bear in mind that I do not know what was in the mind of the artist.

1. Its art.
2. Its in Eilat, within a stones throw of Giza (OK, a strong throw

)
3. It's not in a lodge room, its in the middle of the street.

All that ever been said about pyramids is that they are not used within masonic symbology. But theres nothing stopping masons from using pyramids, just as there's nothing stopping non-masons using pyramids. Its called a Theme. Use your common sense - in an organization that uses stonemasons tools as symbols of morality, don't you think the greatest building project in the ancient world might be of interest to us?

Maybe the artist thought the all-seeing eye in a pyramid was masonic? Maybe was making an ironic statement? Maybe it exists in a side order somewhere that I don't know about? Who knows.

And really... who cares?

But dont you see their identical
watch.pair.com...

It's quite simple, who is going to belive you any way.


albert pike

The Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter, and the Eye of the World; and his is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges

It's clear, the sun is the eye in your lodges.
It's a clear statement.

With such statements that exist in your lectures, and pictures that do sustain it's besicly the same I dont see who is going to belive you.
Not only that simbols are identical but are sustained in your lectures that are one and the same.

3. It's not in a lodge room, its in the middle of the street.

www.masonicforum.ro...

who is going to belive you

Originally posted by pepsi78
But dont you see their identical
watch.pair.com...

'Identical'. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

It's quite simple, who is going to belive you any way.

I think you greatly overestimate your influence and credibility in this debate. You appear hell-bent on making us look bad, or like demon-worshippers, or anti-christian. You keep repeating the same things, regardless of our responses. You are ignoring our input.

The Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter, and the Eye of the World; and his is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges

It's clear, the sun is the eye in your lodges.
It's a clear statement.

Actually, I read that to mean that the All-Seeing Eye is Jupiter's eye.

Of course, you've already provided 'proof' from Pike that the eye represents the Egyptian gods. So, umm... which is it?

Or could it perhaps be that many cultures have used similar symbolism to represent there own faiths, and Pike is noting that history? You know, like we've been saying...

With such statements that exist in your lectures, and pictures that do sustain it's besicly the same I dont see who is going to belive you.

Well, as soon as you quote our lectures, we can discuss that aspect. But as yet, you've not.

Yes, I know you think M&D constitutes our lectures. You are wrong.

www.masonicforum.ro...

1) Not a masonic lodge, unless they do some really out-there stuff in Romania. May be some appendant body, but someone familiar with bodies over there may be able to give a better answer.

2) The symbol looks more like a Christian trinitarian symbol, overlayed with an eye. It certainly doesn't match your unfinished-pyramid-topped-with-an-eye fetish.

3) You claimed that lodge rooms are covered in eye-atop-pyramid symbols. If that is actually a lodge room, you've proved yourself wrong.

So, why would anyone care what you claim, given your lack of credibility and obvious agenda?

Originally posted by pepsi78

It's quite simple, who is going to belive you any way.

Hmmm. If I were you, I'd rethink my position. After all, you keep claiming that Albert Pike said that Masonry is a religion in "Morals and Dogma", when in fact, on p. 161, as plain as day, he writes "Masonry is not a religion."

so who is going to believe you?

albert pike

The Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter, and the Eye of the World; and his is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges

It's clear, the sun is the eye in your lodges.
It's a clear statement.

I don't think there's any doubt with anyone who's ever read Pike, that Pike considered the eye to be a solar symbol. The real mystery is what this has to do with what we're discussing. You seem to have some sort of problem with the sun. My advice is, if you really don't like it, move to Pluto.

Actually, I read that to mean that the All-Seeing Eye is Jupiter's eye.

The Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter, and the Eye of the World; and his is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges

The sun was termed by the greeks the eye of jupiter, what do we understand by this?, that the sun was the eye of jupiter, and then it says " and the eye of the world", the sun is the eye of jupiter and the eye of the world.
It does not say the eye of the world is the eye of jupiter, after saying the sun is the eye of jupiter, it says "and the eye of the world.

The Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter,and the Eye of the World.
Not even you can twist this around.

Or could it perhaps be that many cultures have used similar symbolism to represent there own faiths, and Pike is noting that history? You know, like we've been saying...

The Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter, and the Eye of the World; and >"his is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges"<

3) You claimed that lodge rooms are covered in eye-atop-pyramid symbols. If that is actually a lodge room, you've proved yourself wrong.

www.masonicforum.ro...
MASONIC FORUM IN ISTANBUL,AT GRAND LODGE OF TURKEY CONVENT
It's at grand lodge.

So, why would anyone care what you claim, given your lack of credibility and obvious agenda?

Because your response is wrong all your replies are wrong
For haps trinity man can get you out of this mess, I must admit he does much better than you.


[edit on 20-6-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
The Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter,and the Eye of the World.
Not even you can twist this around.

Good for the Greeks. This, like the Egyptian symbolism, has nothing to do with our meaning for the Eye.

You really don't get it, huh? To the Greeks, the Eye would represent a Greek god. To the Egyptians, an Egyptian god. By extrapolation, to a Catholic, it would represent the Catholic god.... etc.

The Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter, and the Eye of the World; and >"his is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges"<

But that conflicts with your Egyptian material, from earlier. you can't have it both ways. Either Pike's statements are meaningless, or you are mistaken in your assumptions.

MASONIC FORUM IN ISTANBUL,AT GRAND LODGE OF TURKEY CONVENT
It's at grand lodge.

Interesting. They have decorations and outfits that I've never seen. Funky stuff.

There is a point in this, I think, but I believe it will be lost on you.

Because your response is wrong

all your replies are wrong

Right. Seriously, listen to yourself. You have a preconcieved notion, that - for the sake of argument - let's say could be true or false. Anyone that tries to rebut your claims is lambasted as being 'wrong' or 'a pretender' or 'making it up', no matter how small the issue. When asked to provide examples of your claims, you can't do it. And you keep bringing up the exact same bits and pieces.

You sound like some sort of zealot.

You've demonstrated a shocking lack of knowledge about the organization - stuff that is indisputable and publically available. You didn't even know what the term 'Blue Lodge' meant.

Similarly: A friend of mine once got a notion stuck in his head - that US paper currency was printed by local banks (and as a result, they were shady and corrupt). On vacation, I took him to the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. On the tour, you can see the bills being printed at several stages of the process, and they give a pretty lengthy description of how they function. The result? He still believes his theory, and now thinks that the Bureau is some sort of cover-up front.

You are in the same range. Lodges are pretty open affairs. you can easily find us. Most of us don't hide our involvement. We often have events that are open to the public. Our rituals are all out on the web. We are willing to talk in places like this, and acknowledge who we are. We even have a Freemasons for Dummies book... and yet you still know nothing about us. Instead of actually finding out about us, you're just making stuff up and seeing meanings and connections that aren't there.

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

You really don't get it, huh? To the Greeks, the Eye would represent a Greek god. To the Egyptians, an Egyptian god. By extrapolation,

"The Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter"
This means the sun is the all seeign eye of jupiter

"and the Eye of the World; "
And also the eye of the world.

"his is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges"
the sun is the all seeing eye of your lodges .
The sun is god's eye.

to a Catholic, it would represent the Catholic god.... etc.

Really where does it say?
Show me the text, your inventing things again.
And further more it says contrary, that it's not.

And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they WORSHIPPED THE SUN TOWARD THE EAST. Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, 0 son of man? Is it a light thing...to commit the abominations which they commit here

masonary is a concept of ainciant egiptian &other goods.
It has nothing to do with god ,cristian god.

masonary is in conclusion incompatible with crestianity.

I'll be honest with you, you are confused, you think th sun is the eye of god for every one, but it's not, aiciant egiptian religion and cristianity does not share anything in comun, their enemys, the bible states numeros refrences where god comes in confict with aicient egipt.
Your lectures made you to belive so, you should read the bible, all of it, and you will see it's a whole different thing.



[edit on 20-6-2006 by pepsi78]

Hi Pepsi

I'm going to award you 10 out of 10 for perseverence. But regretfully a little less than that for content.

Originally posted by pepsi78
But dont you see their identical
watch.pair.com...

Ah, the seal of the United States. Just because something is assumed to be masonic doesn't make it so. I believe I'm correct in saying that the Seal wasn't even designed by a freemason.

It's quite simple, who is going to belive you any way.

Not you, that's for sure.

www.masonicforum.ro...

There's no pyramid in that picture that I can see. What I did see though is a triangle - well used in freemasonry as a representation of the Deity. The three corners of the triangle represent the triple aspect of the Lord; Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Or they do to a Christian freemason anyway.

I can confirm to you that the lodge (Grand Lodge actually) pictured is regular, as the bloke with the mike is the Grand Secretary of UGLE, wearing his Craft apron.

masonary is in conclusion incompatible with crestianity.

What is this crestianity to which you keep referring?

Originally posted by pepsi78
aiciant egiptian religion and cristianity does not share anything in comun

lol, you sure about that? Maybe you should compare the story of Christ with the older story of Osiris, and then come back and tell us thay they have nothing in common.

Actually, the opposite is true. We do not issue invitations

Thank you, Hobbes, that was very helpful

I am a bit confused here... I have found many references to the eye in pyramids and triangle. Its all over the web, easy to find, from reputable sources. From what I have gathered it has been used throughout History by many groups to represent many things, though mostly it appears as some representation of the God of the day, like RA the sun god of Egypt, Jupiter for the Greeks... etc.

What I don't understand is why this is bothering Pepsi so much. It is afterall just a symbol that means whatever a particular group has adopted it to me for them. I mean even Kids treehouse clubs [anyone remember those?] came up with secret handshakes and codes.

I don't get the point.

But I have learned more about Masons in the past few days than I ever knew, sooo Good Job Pepsi! These guys sound like they really have their act together

Hey Pepsi your signature "May the force be with you."

That's used by Jedi Knights isn't it? Aren't THEY a Secret Society