We Have To Eliminate The Gringos!!

Come on! Does this mean that the Hispanics are just now evolving to the level of the Gringos of 1800??? Do they really want to be 200 years behind the times?

Old school: Let's eliminate the Hispanics.
New school: Let's learn to help each other and be friends. Cooperation is the way to success.

New Hispanic School: Let's eliminate the Gringos.

One step forward, three steps back.

I just love how the elite liberals think we should all be more 'tolerant' yet they send their WHITE kids to private schools, they move to predominately white neighborhoods, yet thumb their noses at us who cant afford to be sent to private schools yet want to escape the usually gang infested schools. There is a strong correlation between large numbers of minorities and the soaring gang problems, dont believe me?

Move to an intercity neighborhood......

Hypocrites!


This is why people leave the immigrant communities.....

wake up people! the sooner you realise whast going on the better off you will be.....



[edit on 4-4-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Originally posted by Roper
This is what happens when a nation does not see to the assimilation of the immigrants. Just ask the American Indians.
Roper

To assimilate? I am not sure what you are saying? To me, assimilation is a terrible process!

Other cultures have to assimilate to the 'superior' culture by relinquishing their own cultural identity and beliefs to basically fit in with the majority or norm. Let's all be sheep...bah bah!!

What has happened to diversity? Where does tolerance and cultural autonomy exist with assimilation? They don't...extend this theory of assimilation...if the Govt of the day wanted to marginalise YOU for being a certain age or on a certain income; they "bloody" (Aussie oi oi oi) have the power to do so.

It is fair to expect that immigrants adopt/embrace the laws of the country but to 'assimilate' is expecting way too much. Why in AU, the newly founded Commonwealth went to such extremes with the Indigenous Australians' as to force them to sign their 'Aboriginality'[sic] away and instantly become 'white' with the 'dog tag' or exemption certificate....If you refused to 'assimilate' to the white standard well you had no rights, not even citizenship status.

What a load of bollocks....!!!

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Yeah, I've been hearing Univision's Jorge Ramos saying this all this week on CNN. "The white population is dying off... they aren't having babies..."

My question is: do Vincente Fox and company realize that other people live here? There are the Native Americans, who have more right to march in the streets than illegal immigrants. There are the black Americans, who were brought here by force. And there are the multitudes of legal immigrants, who did what they had to do to become legal.

So, is the conversation on the fate of our Union only taking place between various Mexican interests and the American government/ corporate interests?

Also, I am so tired of "jobs Americans won't do." Please. Randi Rhodes was on Larry King saying she has callers who pick up roadkill, and they would do anything that paid decent money.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I get tired of hearing that old tired arguement.

Mexicans do jobs that Americans wont do. What utter crap. I know alot of Americans who would love to get a job doing construction, picking produce, ect, anything to get a paycheck in. But unfortunately, those who employ do not want to pay American citizens minimum or legal wages to do the work when they have illegals they can pay a fraction of minimum wage.

You get way above from me. Hardly anyone wants mentions this. They simply parrot the ol party line.

Originally posted by sssssssnake
Come on! Does this mean that the Hispanics are just now evolving to the level of the Gringos of 1800??? Do they really want to be 200 years behind the times?

Old school: Let's eliminate the Hispanics.
New school: Let's learn to help each other and be friends. Cooperation is the way to success.

New Hispanic School: Let's eliminate the Gringos.

One step forward, three steps back.

please stop the genralizations a few stupid people do not speak for the rest of us. what ever race you are i guantree you 100% fact it has had its share of stupid individuals, it doesnt in anyway make your race responsable does it? if i wanted i could easily break it down race by race naming idiots who thought jsut liek this guy. but that would be pointless

please everyone be relaistic dont let fear thats born out of ignorance block your abilitly to think lol all us hispanics are not out to get you guys cause of idiots like this, eventually this idiot will get whats coming to him. most hispnaics including my self probabley will never hear of this this guy if it wsant for people adding gas to his tinny litttle sparks that arent even a reality

im sure we have all heard the old saying a few rotten appels doesnt spoil the whole bunch...please keep that in mind

oh by the way dont you guys think this is convinate that this jsut happens to come out in the middle of all these immigration talks?

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 4-4-2006 by oneness]



[edit on 2006-4-4 by wecomeinpeace]

k while we are on the topic of ignorance towards some Hispanic things lets kill something right now.

through out my life I’ve seen people who don’t understand it have associated la raza with hate.
it couldn’t be any further from that. la raza was a phrase used out of pride. why do we constantly allow people to associate pride for your self with hate for others? as a Hispanic if I say I have pride in my race, in my culture, etc..it means exactly that I’m proud of who I am. why did people start tagging on the idea of being proud of your self means you hate others who are different?

k now that that’s out of the way.

the phrase la raza in the context its used today was coined by José Vasconcelos.
it referred to meztizo people of Mexico. meztizo people are actually people of mixed race. if you know Mexican history you know a majority of Mexicans now days are of Spaniard and native American descent. his intentions with the phrase "la raza" was to unite people, declaring that "traditional concepts of race and nationality can be transcended in the name of humanity's common destiny".

does that seem like a hateful thing to you? seems like an goal we should all be shooting for. right? specially since the days of "pure" races are long gone, and you could pretty much guarantee all of us have some type of mix in there some where.

anyway in the 60's it became a term used in the Chicano rights movement witch was basically the same as the black civil rights movement. much like blacks used black power, we used la raza. it instills pride into people, not a will to hate, but the power to be proud of who you are no mater who puts you down... witch was also a positive thing cause everyone should have equal rights...right?

but I think where people get confused, is because there is also a street gang that came around later that goes by the name la raza, but they are in no way affiliated.

there is organizations like national council of la raza founded in 1970.

"Founded in 1970, the Association for the Advancement of Mexican Americans (AAMA) is committed to the advancement of at-risk and disadvantaged youth and families through innovative programs that provide alternative education, social services, and community development. Key programs include the George I. Sanchez High School, the first Hispanic-accredited alternative high school in the state of Texas; an Alcohol and Drug Abuse Program; an AIDS Awareness Program; and Barrios Unidos, a gang intervention program. Other programs focus on elementary school youth, adult literacy, abused and homeless children, and economic and community development."

these aren’t negative things. associating these ideas with hate its like saying martin Luther king preached hate. its so false, please educate your self on these issues before you speak on them.

its better to not speak on something you don’t understand, then to speak about it like its fact when you are completely wrong.

Hey John.
Hello Jose.
Look John, Arabic terrorist!
Where!
Wham! Go back to Europe Gringo!

Man, you gotta love this think-tanks.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I get tired of hearing that old tired arguement.

Mexicans do jobs that Americans wont do. What utter crap. I know alot of Americans who would love to get a job doing construction, picking produce, ect, anything to get a paycheck in. But unfortunately, those who employ do not want to pay American citizens minimum or legal wages to do the work when they have illegals they can pay a fraction of minimum wage.

You get way above from me. Hardly anyone wants mentions this. They simply parrot the ol party line.

Thank YOU.

You know, sometimes you watch the news, and feel crazy, like, what are they talking about?

Maybe it sounded good while they were all ensconced in a plush office, collaborating on how to do the average American citizen out of a viable jobs market, but in real life, the party line on how illegal labor helped promote the growth of our "booming economy" is BS.

And, by the way, where is this "booming economy" I keep hearing so much about?

While good American citizens are being persecuted for everything from taxes to tickets, illegals are living the good life. Those poor, poor Mexicans are nothing more than criminals! And to perpetuate their existence here they have to keep committing crimes (false SS cards, fake driver’s license, etc...).

Our borders are a joke! Yes, yes, by all means let’s make it easier on them by supporting their language so they don't have to learn English. If you went to live in a foreign language country, do you think they would not expect you to assimilate? Would they be giving our kids an education and free health care? I have nothing against legal immigration but I have a big problem with border crossers that come here and with an attitude on top of it. You think they contribute to our economy? They send their money back to Mexico where family members live good lives with the exchange rate.

Oh, and lets not forget the fine organizations they join here such as the Latin Kings! A wonderful upstanding group!

Well bottom line is I think it is really sad that we get such protests because we simply want to have better security of our borders.

It boils down to the fact that this country, the USA, can never and will never EVER make the rest of the world happy untill it is crushed into a 3rd world country. We will always be wrong in their eyes, will always be the oppressor, will always be the bad guy. No matter how much aid is sent to other countries. It will never be enough. And god forbid the USA is ever brought to its knees the rest of the world will be wishing for the good 'ol days of when the USA was there to make it all better, and provide better lives for those who followed the rules and came here to make better lives for themselves.

We will forever be the Red Headed Stepchild in the eyes of the world. And that is just sad. And the very moment we want to stop the exploitation of our borders we are lashed out upon.

This is so sad. Don't You see how They fan the flames of hate? It's exactly what They want, divide and conquer. Wake up and smell the NWO! This is not 'their' country, this is not 'our' country, Earth is not a possession. We have been given a magnificent opportunity to leave a mark here in this life. My mark will be one of Love & Peace*. Won't You join Me?


*unless I'm [MOD EDIT] with 1st, then it's [MOD EDIT] time.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 2006-4-4 by wecomeinpeace]

So this giant badwagon of mexicans march into L.A., and shout about killing the white man?
I'll beat them with a sock full of burritos.

Before I put my two cents in, I would like to present a disclaimer:

People of all races deserve dignity and respect. And in this, everyone should have an open mind especially in very vital, yet difficult discussions. This one, represents such a conversation.

With that being said, I have to admit that I usually stay out of thread like this because I simply do not like the vitriol that has arisen around a subject area. But, I feel that with a topic as important as this, some things need to be put into perspective.

Immigration is an important issue in America simply because it is not only a part of the United States landscape; it is a part of history. From looking past the angry comments and banter about the situation, several things can be discerned.

1)The problem of assimilation.
I think some of the comments in this thread center around this issue. First it starts out, "I don't like them coming here," and then it ends, "But for the people I know, they're hard working people". Hence, comes the dichotomy of feelings. I think that we are used to the stereotype of immigrants that have come from Ellis Island. However in the case of Immigrants from Latin America (Not all illegal immigrants come from Mexico. Some come from Nicaragua; others from Guatemala, Ecuador and other countries), they come from South of the Border. The border and the Southwestern portion of America has become a battleground, because the new immigrant populations have formed their own enclaves and retain their own cultural practices. As a result, stores pop up catering to their tastes; signs change to suit their language; and all American institutions readjust to suit their needs.

Americans who are passionate about the "immigration problem" grow frustrated by the failure of certain segments of the population to assimilate with Americanism. As a result, that anger is being fueled in not only instilling isolationist ideas, but out and out warfare. As a result, because of the failure to assimulate initiates a paranoia derived from the residue of 9/11--built from an unhealthy mix of fear and patriotism. And that is causing the outright prejudice that is wreaking havoc with the real issues surrounding illegal immigration and the law.

The media can be part and parcel in fueling this feeling. Take a glance at mediamatters.org's report on false reports made by Chris Matthews on Hardball.

Even with this notion, it is fair to say that all ethnic cultures and races should know their history and where they come from. This knowledge adds to the fabric of America.

For what it is worth, read this article from the Washington Post, The Myth of the Melting Pot as well as the summary from the NPR/Kaiser/Kennedy School Poll

2)Failure to understand other people's cultures:
It is also fair to have a cultural lesson about immigrant cultures before shouting for a "war against Mexico". Because without learning about each other, what happens is "dehumanization" and "grouping of the 'other'" into an enemy camp.

It would help to read this introductory article about Mexican Immigrants from the Library of Congress. There are other sub sections there that fully go into the history of the presence of Mexicans in the United States. It is also helpful to read this transcript about a round table discussion on immigration and racism.


3)How do Documented Immigrants feel about this outcry?

An interesting poll comes from the New America Media website about how documented immigrants feel about the legislation happening in Congress. It says:

news.ncmonline.com

Also Tuesday, a national poll of documented immigrants was released, showing documented immigrants largely in favor of legislation friendly to immigrants, even to those who are in the United States illegally. The poll, conducted by Bendixen & Associates for New America Media, a national association of ethnic news outlets, found that the immigrant community is alarmed about the tone of the debate and feel that anti-immigrant sentiment is growing. "This poll is significant because it takes the temperature of those closest to the current immigration debate," said Wade Henderson, executive director of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, a co-sponsor of the poll.

"The survey results are striking and reinforce the call for responsible immigration reform worthy of a nation built by immigrants." Eight hundred documented immigrants were interviewed in 47 states in February and March for the study. American citizens were 61 percent of the immigrants surveyed; legal residents were 39 percent.

They gave bad grades to all politicians involved in revamping immigration laws and immigration enforcement, including President Bush. Only 10 percent approved of H.R. 4437. A majority -- 54 percent -- of the polled immigrants felt that the immigration debate was unfair and based on misinformation.

4)"Feel Good" Intentions vs. "The Law"

The most troubling aspect of this thread is that people find themselves spewing hate against a group of people and equating it with enforcing the law. And the people who encourage tolerance are also torn with the aspects of the law as well. However, I think that we need to "separate" the notion of "people" from the idea of "the law".

It is almost unanimously agreed that as long as immigrants in America go through the proper channels, then they should be Americans. However, what gets into murkier places inside this debate is when economics, jobs, governmental actions, and patriotism are mentioned. And what is worse, the calling of building a wall echoing of the one constructed in Germany.

We should remember that when times get bad, there is always a scapegoat. In this debate, the anger is vented toward undocumented workers. It is always strange that people take out their most basest emotions toward a different segment of the population instead of addressing policies affecting us all. And while we do so, the corporations and the rich are continuing to gain money because they comply with their own set of rules. Sure, legislation will be passed...to lull the populace. However, the underlying hatred against another race will stay because of the damage done by governmental and media propaganda.

While Americans are pitted against each other, the real cause of this social unrest will remain unblemished. Between the lines, there will always be some other secret clause in a bill protecting the corporations and businesses who do not want to deal with unions and will strive to work their employees more for less. What it eventually comes down to is that the poor and the middle class are the ones exploited financially and emotionally.

So, the argument on immigration should be reframed on policy--economically and legally. But please do not debase a group of people on the faults of the government and big business.









[edit on 5-4-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006

So, the argument on immigration should be reframed on policy--economically and legally. But please do not debase a group of people on the faults of the government and big business.

I think the essential issue is policy.

Given the facts of the current American economy (outsourcing, underemployment, etc), as in, say, the last 5 years, I would consider illegal immigrants to be economic terrorists (except that 'terrorists' are defined as a threat to the state and, in this case, the state is using them to undercut their own citizens).

This is the way I understand it. When immigrants of color come to this country, they tend to cluster in the urban ghettos. Once in these ghettos, which include the working poor of ALL colors, illegal immigrants compete with longtime residents as unskilled labor. Employers, with no legal incentive to do otherwise, bypass American citizens and recent LEGAL immigrants in favor of cheap, ILlegal, immigrant labor.

That is why average Americans are upset. While the corporations laugh all the way to the bank, and illegals get their (pot)shot at the American Dream, those of us who FINANCE the whole thing would like to know, what should we be doing?

If the government and the corporations could get together and come up with a plan as to how Americans should continue to feed their families as the rug is pulled from under us, the dialogue on illegal immigration would not be nearly as vitriolic.

And I'm definitely not debasing anyone, but I am a little disappointed at the Mexican government.

First of all, they are allowing themselves to be used in, what I believe to be, the deliberate bankruptcy of the US and/or her citizenry. This is a theory I'm still working on, but the combination of changes in personal bankruptcy law, un(-der)employment, rising fuel costs, and an exorbitantly costly war, among other things that really take away from the point of this post, are all quite planned. Not to mention the Fed is deliberately dampening the economy. Meanwhile, everybody from individuals to the government is buying on credit, and the tax experts on CNN recommend paying your taxes on credit.

So, while illegals come to this country to benefit from our economy, they also contribute to its demise by driving down wages. These are problems we would have had even without the 'illegal immigration problem,' but the situation is definitely being exacerbated.

Secondly, I just can't understand why a group of people would fight for their independence, and then volunteer to be slaves to America not even 200 years later.

I must be missing something. There has to be a long-term plan, beyond just immediate economic reward. Anybody got any ideas?



[edit on 5-4-2006 by HarlemHottie]

HarlemHottie,
When I wrote my post, I did not mean to offend anyone, but I wanted to just put a different perspective in the immigration issue. After all, it is not only a political and economic issue; it is also a cultural and national one. It is especially affecting all Americans in times of this economic crisis.The policies behind illegal immigration and why it is happening need to be dealt with.

I wanted to let you know I understand what you're saying. I agree with several points you made.

Originally quoted by HarlemHottie
This is the way I understand it. When immigrants of color come to this country, they tend to cluster in the urban ghettos. Once in these ghettos, which include the working poor of ALL colors, illegal immigrants compete with longtime residents as unskilled labor. Employers, with no legal incentive to do otherwise, bypass American citizens and recent LEGAL immigrants in favor of cheap, ILlegal, immigrant labor.

That is why average Americans are upset. While the corporations laugh all the way to the bank, and illegals get their (pot)shot at the American Dream, those of us who FINANCE the whole thing would like to know, what should we be doing?

That is the most frustrating thing about this topic. Employers don't want to deal with unions anymore because it has to do with benefits. As a result, they want to bypass legally documented and American workers in order to employ undocumented workers. In the same breath, the undocumented workers are exploited because they don't want to be found out by the INS. Yet, at the same time poor and middle class workers feel exploited because they can't just find jobs and still have to pay taxes. They can't find work with benefits in order to have such things as maternity leave, sick leave or other workplace protections. These are the reasons why Americans are so stressed out and furious over this entire thing. And the people who are sitting back and relaxing are those in management positions. Bosses still collect their money and bypass the law--while the rest of us suffer.

And what should we do until the companies comply? Root them out and penalize them for not following the law. Or file a lawsuit against a company knowingly employing undocumented workers.

Until the companies pay for their wrongdoing, this situation is not going to get any better. I would love for the leaders of industry to come up with a plan to help the average working American, but they're not going to do it. They're making too much money and they don't care about how they do it.

Originally quoted by HarlemHottie
And I'm definitely not debasing anyone, but I am a little disappointed at the Mexican government.

So am I. You would think that the Mexican government would do more to stop the flow of immigration. However, we have to take this a little wider. What are all the leaders of South America doing? There are many places of unrest in South America. Part of that unrest has been instigated by the American government in the eighties (such as Columbia, Panama, Nicaragua). And as a result, people who don't want to live in caustic situations and abject poverty would risk their lives to come to America. The frustrating point is that in America, illegal immigrants escape the violence and get jobs. But at the same time, they are not being legalized as citizens. And of course, they are sending money to their families in different countries instead of putting it back into the economy. Therein lies the problem.

But, I also get the impression that President Fox does not care about "illegal immigration" one way or the other. In interviews, he claims that he "can't stop the free movement of citizens within Mexican borders". It seems as if he is pushing the problem right into America's lap. And the main question is, what is Mexico doing to attract its populace back? Why won't they internally take care of their problems and work on their infrastructure?

So, I guess the only thing is this: before Congress decides on making a "guest worker" program, the entire immigration system should be revamped to stop the present abuses. Shut the Department of Homeland Security Down. Restore FEMA as its own agency. Shuffle the money back into the INS to help them do their job. Then fund law enforcement in order to help police the borders in Southwest communities.

I really don't know how the government is going to categorize and locate all eleven million undocumented immigrants in the country. But it is important to have them do it--if illegal immigration needs to be stopped.


[edit on 5-4-2006 by ceci2006]

How about we just assimilate Mexico. Heck... why stop there..... assimilate South America as well.

Isn't that really the message they are conveying to the American people? That they want to wave their Mexican flag, remain a Mexican citizen yet live and work here.

As hateful and anti-Mexican as this sounds it really isn't because I DONT BLAME THEM!! They have a good thing going for them now and any talk of that exploit changeing at the request of the American people is going to stir the hornets nest.

We just need to take Mexico and be done with it.

Originally posted by Creedo It boils down to the fact that this country, the USA, can never and will never EVER make the rest of the world happy untill it is crushed into a 3rd world country. We will always be wrong in their eyes, will always be the oppressor, will always be the bad guy. No matter how much aid is sent to other countries. It will never be enough. And god forbid the USA is ever brought to its knees the rest of the world will be wishing for the good 'ol days of when the USA was there to make it all better, and provide better lives for those who followed the rules and came here to make better lives for themselves.

We will forever be the Red Headed Stepchild in the eyes of the world. And that is just sad. And the very moment we want to stop the exploitation of our borders we are lashed out upon.

Here is a list of dictators supported by the US for the sake of your corporate/governmental interests.

Fulgencio Batista
Rafael Trujillo
Papa Doc Duvalier
Baby Doc Duvalier
Ian Smith
P.W. Botha
General Samuel Doe
Mobutu Sese Seko
Hussan II
Chiang Kai-Shek
Ngo Dinh Diem
Park Chung Hee
Mohammed Zia Ul-Huq
Ferdinand Marcos
Sir Hassanal Bolkiah
General Sitiveni Rabuka
General Suharto
Mohammed Reza Pahlevi
Saddam Hussein
Adolph Hitler
General Francisco Franco
Antonio Salazar
George Papadopoulos
Turgat Ozal
Maximilliano Martinez
Anastasio Somoza
Anastasio Somoza Jr.
General Efrain Rios Mont
Roberto Suazo Cordova
General Manuel Noriega
Vinicio Cerezo
Alfredo Cristiani
General Humberto Branco
Colonel Hugo Banzer
General Jorge Videla
Alfredo Stroessner
General Augusto Pinochet

USA make it all better?

How very Fine and Noble of you to allow people whose countries you have destroyed to come to the US.

Interesting that you post a huge list of tyranical and oppressive dictators that you allegedly claim the USA took out of power. And who ever said that the good people of these countries were not welcome to come to the USA? LEGALLY??

And what does any of this have to do with the USA wanting to secure its borders and make ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION (note the word illegal) something more controlable?

Pull your head out. Your fingertips are turning blue.

No homes, you pull your head out...those are dictators the US supported...not helped take out.

yea go ahead and try to "kill the gringos"

it will never happen.

me and freinds have all sorts of "things that go bang in the night" to take care of the mexicans if they decide to come....


bring it on !