Jesus versus Masons

I think that the biggest problem here is that the cross with the two bars pre-dates the knights templar, no?

Originally posted by Nygdan
I think that the biggest problem here is that the cross with the two bars pre-dates the knights templar, no?

It does. However, in the Thirty-third Degree of Scottish Rite Masonry, the symbol is used in reference to the Templars, mainly because the 33° itself is a Templar degree.

I thought it was Acacia leaves.

I've seen a couple pictures of Albert Pike wearing a necklace w/ the sign on it.

Interesting.

well ok. after 33o wtf happens i read some crazy stuff and it bugged me out. One of the reason why i never became a mason. Well im new and i not too good with the posting but explain this to me and tell me does this sound evil or not. For the record i got this reading from this site

Actually, from what my sources tell me, not only are there degrees beyond the 33rd degree, but the 33rd degree itself is made up of two cores, an inner and outer core, the 33rd degree and the 33+ degree. In the past when the 33rd degree initiation was reached a potential initiate might have been given a Bible or a Cross and asked to spit on it or desacrate it in some manner. If they refused to do this they were told that they had made the "right decision" and remained in the outer core of the 33rd degree, thinking that they had finally 'arrived'. If they did or do commit this form of blasphemy then they are told that they have made the "right decision", and they are sent on to the inner core of the 33+ degree, which is the springboard to the higher levels which interact with the joint humanoid-reptiloid Ashtarian lodges or branches of the 'Serpent Cult' on other planets, within underground cities, and possibly even other dimensions. One source informs me that former president George Herbert Walker Bush -- who was at one time the HEAD of MJ-12 -- had attained to the 42nd degree, however he may have attaned to even higher levels since that time. I would guess that the one who holds the highest level of initiation would be the 'dragon-king' of Draconis himself, or whatever appellation the leader or the leaders of the Draconian Empire may go by. - Branton):


this was the link// www.subversiveelement.com...

Now if masons are about some shady stuff what is this about and why in gods name would you even think about joining?

SkYNeTUSA,

Does that even sound like it's possible?!?!! It's a bunch of bunk, there is nothing shady. C'mon alien contact and super powers because you commit blasphemy???

Originally posted by SkYNeTUSA
i read some crazy stuff

lol, yeah, me too. The Internet is certainly not lacking folks who make bizarre claims.

Actually, from what my sources tell me, not only are there degrees beyond the 33rd degree

Your sources are no doubt confused. Masonry does not consist of one system of degrees, but many. The system of 33 degrees is held by the Scottish Rite of Masonry. The York Rite of Masonry, for example, only has 12 degrees. Other Rites have different numbers of degrees, some more and some less than the 33 degrees of the Scottish Rite.

but the 33rd degree itself is made up of two cores, an inner and outer core, the 33rd degree and the 33+ degree.

The 33° is indeed composed of two different "styles", but not like many non-Masons think. The easiest way to explain it will be to point out that when the 33° was first instituted, its only purpose was to recognize a voting member of the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite. These voting members are called "Sovereign Grabd Inspectors General", or "SGIG's", for short.

The presiding officer of the Supreme Council is called the Sovereign Grand Commander. When Albert Pike was elected to this office in the mid-19th century, he made several administration changes. One of them was that he began conferring the 33° on brothers in recognition of service, instead of making them SGIG's. Therefore, the new brand of 33° members were not voting members of the Supreme Council, but instead became Honorary Members. This is still how it is done today.

The white cap like Brother Art is wearing is that of the 33°, Inspector General Honorary. Actual SGIG's wear purple caps with Cross of Lorraine with crosslets.

In the past when the 33rd degree initiation was reached a potential initiate might have been given a Bible or a Cross and asked to spit on it or desacrate it in some manner.

This myth undoubtedly comes from the trumped-up charges against the original Templars, who were accused of spitting on the Cross and desecrating the Host during their initiation ceremonies. Both the Templars and the Freemasons are completely innocent of these bogus claims, and they have never been a part of the initiation in either organization.

If they did or do commit this form of blasphemy then they are told that they have made the "right decision", and they are sent on to the inner core of the 33+ degree, which is the springboard to the higher levels which interact with the joint humanoid-reptiloid Ashtarian lodges or branches of the 'Serpent Cult' on other planets, within underground cities, and possibly even other dimensions.

Obviously, this claim would debunk itself. Besides, why would alien reptilians care about fraternity rituals?

One source informs me that former president George Herbert Walker Bush -- who was at one time the HEAD of MJ-12 -- had attained to the 42nd degree, however he may have attaned to even higher levels since that time.

Your source seems to have quite an imagination. Regardless, neither George H.W. Bush nor George W. Bush are Masons.

Now if masons are about some shady stuff what is this about and why in gods name would you even think about joining?

I was aware of the conspiracy theories before I became a Mason. I found them both funny and entertaining, as I still do today.

Originally posted by SkYNeTUSA
One source informs me that former president George Herbert Walker Bush -- who was at one time the HEAD of MJ-12 -- had attained to the 42nd degree, however he may have attaned to even higher levels since that time. I would guess that the one who holds the highest level of initiation would be the 'dragon-king' of Draconis himself, or whatever appellation the leader or the leaders of the Draconian Empire may go by. - Branton):

Actually, I find this all quite plausible. I think the Bush administration and all his criminal friends came here on earth for one purpose, to take over planet earth and have total control over the population. In fact, everyone who works closely with the Bush Family is part of the same agenda. Part of that agenda is to provoke Global Political Conflict. What do we get? Wars of course. Death & Destruction. Yup, that's a sign a Bush is at work. Yes, I despise the bunch that badly that I believe this kind of horrific evil cannot possibly come from a human

And don't get me started on 9/11.

There are many reports of people who have had encounters with Reptilian like men in the middle of the night. Most of these cases come from UFO Abductions. There so many unusual things we are not aware of beyond our plain eyes, things we have not understood from this universe yet, or have not yet witnessed, who's to say what really exists? What is beyond our dimension? Intelligent life is out there for sure, remember that. And remember that there will always be good and evil, and it doesn't have to be human to know this.

Reptilian Case #1 (Very Interesting)

[edit on 6-4-2006 by eudaimonia]

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Yes, I despise the bunch that badly that I believe this kind of horrific evil cannot possibly come from a human

I would say that humans can be more evil than a hundred million zillion shapeshifting reptilians could ever dream of being. Bush, despite all of his crock and posing, is not even close to being the worst. The Inquisitors, Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Malosevich, etc., etc., etc. Nowhere has evil ever found a happier home than within the recesses of the human heart.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Yes, I despise the bunch that badly that I believe this kind of horrific evil cannot possibly come from a human

I would say that humans can be more evil than a hundred million zillion shapeshifting reptilians could ever dream of being.

lol.. Well, I think we'll really know the answer to that when a battle between the Reptilians & Humans comes upon earth. But seriously, I see what you're saying although I still think that humans were created to be loving and creative creatures. Something happened to us throughout history that gave birth to this bad seed (possibly a wave of knowledge we weren't supposed to have) and like a virus it spread world wide. I mean think about raising a child in a secluded area possilby in a forest, and no exposure to TV, media, or anything that would be deemed "negative" influence. Just books, music, art, and loving parents. When and how does evil get to hijack into that picture?

Bush, despite all of his crock and posing, is not even close to being the worst. The Inquisitors, Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Malosevich, etc., etc., etc. Nowhere has evil ever found a happier home than within the recesses of the human heart.

Eh, Not Bush Jr. obviously. But definitely his father who's an extremely powerful man with lots of connections, money, and up to the neck with corruption. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bush Sr. had financial connections with Hitler? I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere legit. My point is we are subjected to lots of negativity every single day, whether it comes from the media or simply just how our society "operates" as a whole that gets to us. All this stress and sometimes even repressed ideas or sexual desires can ultimately lead to insanity.

And we are indeed living in a insane world.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
But seriously, I see what you're saying although I still think that humans were created to be loving and creative creatures.

I agree.

Something happened to us throughout history that gave birth to this bad seed (possibly a wave of knowledge we weren't supposed to have) and like a virus it spread world wide.

I agree with this too. The Bible describes it in the allegorical tale of the Fall of Adam, and the Greeks spoke of the allegory of Pandora as a direct result of the disobedience of Prometheus. I realize you're not very big on the Bible and the ancient Gentile mythologies, but personally, I think much can be learned from them. After all, they said the same things you're thinking thousands of years ago, showing that man has always struggled with these things.

I mean think about raising a child in a secluded area possilby in a forest, and no exposure to TV, media, or anything that would be deemed "negative" influence. Just books, music, art, and loving parents. When and how does evil get to hijack into that picture?

Did you ever read the Republic by Plato? If not, I can't recommend it highly enough. It is a dialogue between Socrates and several local Athenians discussing the meaning of justice and what Plato called "the Good".

In it Socrates invents a hypothetical perfect society. He begins just as you mentioned, a basic agrarian society where man is both primitive and happy. During the discussion, the society begins to evolve into a more complex city-state, and each new evil is examined as it appears.

Eh, Not Bush Jr. obviously. But definitely his father who's an extremely powerful man with lots of connections, money, and up to the neck with corruption. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bush Sr. had financial connections with Hitler? I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere legit.

I'm no fan of the Bushes in any way, shape, or form. Nonetheless, the elder Bush did indeed fight bravely defending his country from the Axis Powers. He was shot down over the Pacific by the Japanese, and could have died. This is much more than I can say for his son, who supported the Vietnam War without having to fight in it himself, using his father's influence to keep him out of it, and now benefits from campaigns to belittle veterans who happen to disagree with his policies (the disgusting charade against Kerry during the 2004 elections is a perfect example).

My point is we are subjected to lots of negativity every single day, whether it comes from the media or simply just how our society "operates" as a whole that gets to us. All this stress and sometimes even repressed ideas or sexual desires can ultimately lead to insanity.

I can't disagree with that either. Perhaps we're not so different after all.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I agree with this too. The Bible describes it in the allegorical tale of the Fall of Adam, and the Greeks spoke of the allegory of Pandora as a direct result of the disobedience of

Prometheus. I realize you're not very big on the Bible and the ancient Gentile mythologies, but personally, I think much can be learned from them. After all, they said the

same things you're thinking thousands of years ago, showing that man has always struggled with these things.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think the bible is loaded with good lessons. And it's a good thing you used the words allegorical tale

Do you believe that all the books in the bible are tales or is there something else hidden in the bible that tells the truth about creation? For example, the controversy over The Bible Codes. I ask because the bible has managed to become the center of attention, more studied and dissected than any other book.

I'm not an expert on all this, or a historian, but I think that almost every religious holy book has very similiar stories that are found in the bible. Especially the creation and revelations/apocalypse books.

Did you ever read the Republic by Plato? If not, I can't recommend it highly enough. It is a dialogue between Socrates and several local Athenians discussing the meaning of justice and what Plato called "the Good".

In it Socrates invents a hypothetical perfect society. He begins just as you mentioned, a basic agrarian society where man is both primitive and happy. During the discussion, the society begins to evolve into a more complex city-state, and each new evil is examined as it appears.

Wow, that sounds very interesting. I haven't read The Republic but I definitely have heard about it. I'll see if I can find the book online tonight.

I took a philosophy class once and the teacher showed us this movie called Barefoot in Athens, it was really great! Seen it?

I'm no fan of the Bushes in any way, shape, or form. Nonetheless, the elder Bush did indeed fight bravely defending his country from the Axis Powers. He was shot down over the Pacific by the Japanese, and could have died. This is much more than I can say for his son, who supported the Vietnam War without having to fight in it himself, using his father's influence to keep him out of it, and now benefits from campaigns to belittle veterans who happen to disagree with his policies (the disgusting charade against Kerry during the 2004 elections is a perfect example).

I honestly don't care what good he's done in his life, as far as I'm concerned the whole family tree was poisoned right from the very beginning, planted with a very very bad seed.

I can't disagree with that either. Perhaps we're not so different after all.

I believe in Reptilians
(only because there's so many ufo abduction cases reporting this and because I believe strongly in intelligent life out there..and spirits..ETs..and the paranormal, etc. etc. so i'm very open to the possibility)

Originally posted by eudaimonia

Do you believe that all the books in the bible are tales or is there something else hidden in the bible that tells the truth about creation? For example, the controversy over The Bible Codes. I ask because the bible has managed to become the center of attention, more studied and dissected than any other book.

I've never really liked discussing "the Bible" in generic terms because, as you know, it's not really one book, but a collection of different ones written by many different people with different views. Although the Christian literalist will deem what I'm about to say to be heretical, it's quite obvious that if we examine biblical writings in an unbiased manner we find contradictions. I take this is as proof positive that the different authors did not share all of the same ideas.

For example, it is quite clear that Paul's theology reflects what would now be called "Reformed" or "Calvinist", while James, for example, would be "Arminian".

In any case, some biblical authors wrote in a strict historical context, while others were theological, while still others were mystical. Personally, I subscribe more or less to the Kabalistic view of creation, which is sort of pantheistic. In some sort of an abstract sense, I believe that Nature is God manifested. In this sense, everything that exists is, in reality, some aspect of the divine unity.

In the ancient mysteries, it is said that initiates in the outer sanctum saw the password written on the Temple's door: "No Separate Existence". After being initiated into the Higher Mysteries, the pass became "No Existence"!

If this was a secret, esoteric doctrine, it became public with the Buddha's ministries, who taught this doctrine, and it is said that those who take refuge in the Dharma gain more insight into the mystery of No-Self. I personally see it as "enlightenment" when the individual realizes that he is not an isolated being, as he always supposed himself as being, but is instead an intrinsic part of the whole.

What this means as to actual physical creation is not easy to put in words, even if I completely understood it all myself, which I don't. But I think the system of Sephiroth on the Tree of Life in the Kabalah is a key to such understanding, and that those who meditate on its mysteries will not work in vain.

Wow, that sounds very interesting. I haven't read The Republic but I definitely have heard about it. I'll see if I can find the book online tonight.

It's a long book, but it can be read online here.

I took a philosophy class once and the teacher showed us this movie called Barefoot in Athens, it was really great! Seen it?

I don't think so. Was it about Plato?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
What this means as to actual physical creation is not easy to put in words, even if I completely understood it all myself, which I don't. But I think the system of Sephiroth on the Tree of Life in the Kabalah is a key to such understanding, and that those who meditate on its mysteries will not work in vain.

hehe I gotta say, you really know your stuff! If there weren't so many conspiracy theories surrounding Freemasonry, and if I wasn't so cynical, I'd probably end up looking into applying.

It's a long book, but it can be read online here.

Thanks!

I don't think so. Was it about Plato?

Barefoot in Athens is a play about Socrates. "The last few days in the life of Socrates, including his trial."

Synopsis
Socrates falls from grace, and becomes the lone voice of democracy amongst the corruption of his fellow Athenians in this television adaptation of Maxwell Anderson's play. The fall has been hard on the great philosopher. He walks about his city ragged and sans footwear, causing his wife untold shame. His raving about truth and democracy is more than embarrassing to the city's crooked politicians, and they devise a plan to silence him forever.

Here's a book, and some info on the TV movie

Check it out! It has great performances too. (its hard to find, but any of the video rental places might have it)

Originally posted by eudaimonia


hehe I gotta say, you really know your stuff! If there weren't so many conspiracy theories surrounding Freemasonry, and if I wasn't so cynical, I'd probably end up looking into applying.

lol, that would be irony at its best.

Although, to be perfectly blunt, one does not have to be a Mason in order to study any of this stuff, or gain any enlightenment for it. Dr. J. D. Buck, 33°, in his book "Mystic Masonry", rightly pointed that there are a very many "Masons" who've never even stepped foot in a Lodge room. By "Masons", Buck here refers to those adept in esoteric studies, but not an actual dues paying member of the fraternity.

If one wishes to join an organization where many members study such things, to provide an opportunity to discuss them with others of like mind, then Masonry may be for them. But any claim that one must be a Mason, or member of any other organization, in order to receive some sort of esoteric doctrine or knowledge is bogus. Much is said about the Kabalah, for example, in the Scottish Rite degrees and reading material, but nothing that can't be read in a million other books, both Masonic and non-Masonic.

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out!