The Truth is...

Arbitrary.

The truth is what you believe it is. The depth of that is hard to explain. If you believe God is outside you then the God you worship is outside you. If you believe this society is the only way it can be then so shall it be. Your mind and your beliefs make up your reality. To fully realize this you can simply change your perceptions. No need to drop your beliefs to do it. Just suspend your beliefs and take on another perception as though it was real. For instance, try out the following perception for a day or so.

[Everything you see, hear, touch, taste, think is God. All that God created is still within him/her/it. We are not separate from the creation nor the creator. You are living in the mind of God.]

I've tried on many perceptions. The one above is my favorite so far. It lends a deep level of sacrament to everyday tasks. Everything I do is within God so everything I do is my testimony to the Creator. Sitting and typing I'm still in God. Eating, drinking and going to work; still in God. I see the design and the love in everything. Everything I see or know was created by God or by God's creation. The facet, sink, bed, oven, carpet, car, house...everything...God.

The only thing I have to offer God is everything that was given to me. I try to reflect with the least amount of distortion possible. I wish to know myself and in doing so I know the Creator of this self. I realize all was created perfectly. Even the mass murderer is God knowing itself. There are no mistakes. There are only distorted reflections of the creator realizing and knowing itself through it's creation. But the creations are still pieces of God. I also lean to the idea that all are gods in potential. That all were created with the blueprint of the universe waiting for the individual mind to pick up the baton and start running with it.

To bring it full circle the above is my Truth for the moment. It may change. I may add things or subtract things. But this truth lends a peace that passes understanding. A clarity that passes the logical. A deep sense of being and connection that lightens the heart and frees the mind.

In the end if God is all then anyone's truth is truth. All things can exist and there are no mistakes. Look around, choose your own road. They all lead back to the Creator anyway.

i think the truth is the only thing that'll save our asses, no more of this mass deception

Originally posted by banjoechef
i think the truth is the only thing that'll save our asses, no more of this mass deception

Save from what? Physical death? That will happen anyway. What do you require saving from?

uIVIa,
I often ponder this myself and totally understand the point of view you're coming from. Truth has been a topic from the begining of philosophy and probably always will be as it's a bit of a paradox in understanding. Truth as a concept as well as Truth being God both will involve the same paradox in meaning. The best examples may be seen coming from Plato for example who spent a long time thinking about Truth. Socrates as well as all other "Great Thinkers" did also.

Truth had been epistemically problematic for both sides of the argument. If truth were absolute why were the senses constantly lying about the nature of reality? Yet, if truth were relative, would it be truth? Further, what would be the point in knowing truth if it were mutable? Again, Plato attempts to solve the problem by way of the median. Here, Plato draws a distinction between knowledge and opinion.(Republic, 476d) Opinion, he claims is the intermediate between knowledge and ignorance.(478d) Ignorance is set over what is not; knowledge over what is.(477a) More importantly, knowledge is truth for Plato. Further, truth is attained by recognizing or understanding the Forms and seeing the things which participate in them.(476d) Opinion, which is the way of most, only sees that which participates in the forms.(479d) Truth, however, is attained by a few (the philosophers) by means of reason, and calls for the merging of extremes in the same way his ontology did.

216.239.57.104...:h6KBXf7VdDgJ:www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/3149/plato.htm+plato+truth&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

The only issue I have with Plato (as well as other great philosophers) is their strict adherance to looking for truth in physicality alone. Very few of the great thinkers have tried to resolve the paradox by going beyond the senses and the mind's interpretation of the sensory input.

The one thing though that I don't see as arbitrary is Honesty. Honesty with self and others can unlock a great deal of wisdom IMO. I think then that honesty can unlock truth. But this requires depth of intuition and logical processes. Take the bible for instance. I admire your willingness to take additional time with people that put their whole belief in the bible. Yet I'm certain we both understand that all we have learned outside the bible are locked up within the bible. The issue then arrises that others don't see depth. They don't yet see in 3 dimensions. They can only see the surface. And therein lies the dilemma in explaining anything. If I try to explain the parable of the sower and you keep thinking I'm talking about an actual farmer then it's not for lack of my 'xplainin'. And so with "The Truth". If someone had the truth (say Jesus for instance) and gave it freely how many would actually understand? How many would see the symbolism inherant in the teachings?

How many realize the bible is symbolism and parable? The truth is there and all over the place but it's not on the surface.

Ok, I'm done preaching to the choir.

this is a kind of thinking that i find very rare in people these days, as most squabble with whatever get's thrown at them, like a fish who is teased for water in a barrel by a drunken sailor (we all go through this). to know this sort of truth is to go beyond that. you become the captain of the ship, watching your fellow seaman toying with a fish in an empty bucket. you are observing all, though it all doesnt matter in the end and that's the beauty of it. no mistakes, but the ones you set for yourself. doing everything as perfect as you can (things can only be done once, cannot be redone in that past moment, thus done perfectly). creating what you want to experience. it doesnt matter if you were brought up a certain way, because before each thing you learn you ask yourself, "is this for me?" to this you ultimately give it a yes or no answer, which is based on whatever circumstance/thought process that has been developed by you, for you. though all in all, since it does not matter in the end, what we want in each moment is what we are having right now. saying that is only a personal truth, defined by me. it will matter to you in the end if you choose it to.

I have always said that the only truth is that there is no truth.
I do share mutually accepted apparent universalities that seem to be 'generally' accepted. However there are two methods of rationale by the thinker: Truth can be acceptance of another's speculation or regard in faith but as such-a figurative or rhetorically sound truth; generally self-evident truths.

The other is the logically reasoned, by trial and error or formulaic truth as per applied by equationally acute figuratives that are stable in that we see: 2 + 2 = 4. It always equals for as it is.
I dislike certain aspects of the figurative truths because they often can be misleading or ultimately irrelevant as a universal, but then who else in the cosmos cares even that 2 and 2 is four?

I have always said that the only truth is that there is no truth.

well lucifer, i'd say that you are right. infact that's exaclty what we've been talking about. there is no truth, because in order for it to be it must have a set value. however this is what makes truth personal, as that is all it is. there is no way anyone can say that a certain truths applies to everyone, it only seems that way when you choose it for your self. but as i said before, it doesnt matter. but it can if you choose it to.

you could say that 2+2 = 4 no matter what, but does the colour red = red in all cases. no, it all depends on ones perspective/what nature has provided to us. such a calculation does not matter to bee for example. it all depends on what you are trying to do. the bee does not require such things, though in today's world with today's circumstances a human may. so as you can see, it all depends on what exactly you are trying to do.

religion is ignorance, should be eliminated long long time ago

This true way of life is not a matter of opinion. There are absolute truths and relative truths. The rules of dietetics have changed many times in my lifetime. Many scientific findings have changed from year to year. The scientists taught for decades that the world was once a nebulous, molten mass cast off from the sun, and later many scientists said it once was a whirl of dust which solidified. There are many ideas advanced to the world that have been changed to meet the needs of the truth as it has been discovered. There are relative truths, and there are also absolute truths which are the same yesterday, today, and forever�never changing. These absolute truths are not altered by the opinions of men. As science has expanded our understanding of the physical world, certain accepted ideas of science have had to be abandoned in the interest of truth. Some of these seeming truths were stoutly maintained for centuries. The sincere searching of science often rests only on the threshold of truth, whereas revealed facts give us certain absolute truths as a beginning point so we may come to understand the nature of man and the purpose of his life.

The earth is spherical. If all the four billion people in the world think it flat, they are in error. That is an absolute truth, and all the arguing in the world will not change it. Weights will not suspend themselves in the air, but when released will fall earthward. The law of gravity is an absolute truth. It never varies. Greater laws can overcome lesser ones, but that does not change their undeniable truth.

Spencer W. Kimball, �Absolute Truth,� Ensign, Sept. 1978, 3

I like Philosophy too, but if you don't use that knowledge than theres no point in your arguement.

Fox

The earth is spherical. If all the four billion people in the world think it flat, they are in error. That is an absolute truth, and all the arguing in the world will not change it.

but neither will agreeing with it.

we created beings years or eons ago for war...
we lost the war between them...
we are trapped in this physical cage like animals...
while they feed on our sensations...

many know few dare to speak it in fear of retaliation...

while on this planet we are stuck in a loop of time which may close giving those who want to an opportunity to change the past,present,future which is one singularity...

the truth...

all information besides the singularity is an attempt to keep us locked in this "matrix"...

all lies are tools for such...
all food are tools for such...
all drugs are tools for such...
all sex are tools for such...

this is the truth...

what is man going to do about it?....

what do you base these truths on bigsage? since they are very strange yet drastic truths... either way, i wait ever so curiously for your response

God is not creation. God created creation. Why can't people understand that?

to say that god created creation throws him into the loop of creation itself. saying that he was the only thing that ever existed before it is merely pure convienience. like something you'd find in a really annoying story/role playing game.

cheers

What same first the Chicken or the Egg?
Everyone is familiar with this age old dilema.
Iv always ponder the question of wether God had a predecessor (spelling?)?

This is what was taught by our gurus long ago,
There is only one God, he is the Creator, Sustainer and Destroyer.

"You are the Creator, O Lord, the Unknowable. You created the Universe of diverse kinds, colours and qualities. You know your own Creation. All this is your Play." (Guru Nanak, Var Majh)

"The Formless Supreme Being abides in the Realm of Eternity. Over His creation He casts His glance of grace. In that Realm are contained all the continents and the universes, Exceeding in number all count. Of creation worlds upon worlds abide therein; All obedient to His will; He watches over them in bliss, And has each constantly in mind." (Guru Nanak, Japji)
God cannot take human form.

"He neither has father, nor mother, nor sons nor brothers." (Guru Nanak, Maru)

"Burnt be the mouth that asserts, the Lord takes birth. He is neither born nor dies; neither enters birth nor departs. All pervasive is Nanaks Lord." (Guru Arjan Dev, Raga Bhairon)

Iv always thought of God to be the universe itself, Utter energy creating and destroying worlds without thought or conteplation.
Deep

Bigsage I have the same question

it is still going on...
from akhenaton...
to ramses...
to jesus...
to aaron and moses...
to the dark but not really so dark ages...
to the crusades...
to the imperial movement...
to the slave trade...
to communism vs. capitolism...
to democracy vs republicanism...
to today...
to the choice we will all have to make fairly soon...

Originally posted by deafence#
to say that god created creation throws him into the loop of creation itself. saying that he was the only thing that ever existed before it is merely pure convienience. like something you'd find in a really annoying story/role playing game.

cheers

I don't see any part of that asking for clarification so I'll leave that be.

I notice you already agree though given your previous posts. So what can we learn from this? For me, I see that since truth is personal then all truth is truth. Even if I don't agree I can see that their truth is valid. Spread this out and I can now see that every single human being's truth is valid given their viewpoint and set of circumstances.

[Edited on 15-10-2003 by uIVIa]

[Edited on 15-10-2003 by uIVIa]